Why would a God even need a hell?

[Mickiel]

Jesus' will was to do the will of the father. He freely chose to do his Father's will. It was a choice he made.

It was not a choice Jesus made ,he did not want to die at first. He even asked God to "Lift this cup from me", meaning he did not want to be killed. But Jesus knew he had absolutely no choice in the matter. He submitted to God's will.

 

[RWNJ]

Jesus' will was to do the will of the father. He freely chose to do his Father's will. It was a choice he made.

It was not a choice Jesus made ,he did not want to die at first. He even asked God to "Lift this cup from me", meaning he did not want to be killed. But Jesus knew he had absolutely no choice in the matter. He submitted to God's will.

Why do you persist in displaying your ignorance? Do you actually believe that you, an atheist, understand Scripture better than countless Biblical scholars? I assure you. You do not. You are spiritually blind, because you have rejected God. Besides, Jesus is co-equal with God. It was His choice to die for us, because he loved us. Even you.

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus' will was to do the will of the father. He freely chose to do his Father's will. It was a choice he made.

It was not a choice Jesus made ,he did not want to die at first. He even asked God to "Lift this cup from me", meaning he did not want to be killed. But Jesus knew he had absolutely no choice in the matter. He submitted to God's will.

Why do you persist in displaying your ignorance? Do you actually believe that you, an atheist, understand Scripture better than countless Biblical scholars? I assure you. You do not. You are spiritually blind, because you have rejected God. Besides, Jesus is co-equal with God. It was His choice to die for us, because he loved us. Even you.

I am not an Atheist , and you can't make me one. I have not rejected God , I reject Christianity.

 

[onefour1]

Yes, he submitted. He wasn't forced but chose to follow the will of the Father because even though he knew it would be very painful and his desire was to flee from all the pain, he understood that the salvation of all mankind rested upon his shoulders. And because he loved his Father and his fellow brethren, he chose to do the will of the Father to fulfill all righteousness. It was Jesus' greatest test and He proved faithful. He volunteered and was chosen before the foundation of this earth to be the Savior.

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Abraham 3:23-28
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Moses 4:1-3
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

Yes, it was a difficult decision for Jesus but he was a faithful son whom the Father knew would choose the right out of love for both his Father and his brothers and sisters.

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus did not have a choice in what he did, because he knows there is no choice with his Father. There is no scripture in the bible that Jesus ever had a choice;

Hey , simply produce the scripture; lets have it!

Jesus did what he was supposed to do. In his mind , disobedience was never an option. This choice thing exist only in the mind of Christianity.

 

[onefour1]

Was he forced to do it against his will? No. He chose to follow the will of the Father. Did he have other things that he could have done? Yes. Why didn't Jesus call down fire from heaven and burn all the murderers? Or Maybe and earthquake or tornado, etc. etc.Obedience is not the lack of free will. If there is no free will, then why would God allow us to sin? How can God judge anyone of us if there is no free will? In your own words, what does it take to have free will?

 

[Mickiel]

Was he forced to do it against his will? No. He chose to follow the will of the Father. Did he have other things that he could have done? Yes. Why didn't Jesus call down fire from heaven and burn all the murderers? Or Maybe and earthquake or tornado, etc. etc.Obedience is not the lack of free will. If there is no free will, then why would God allow us to sin? How can God judge anyone of us if there is no free will? In your own words, what does it take to have free will?

Jesus did not " Choose" God's will, all he has EVER known is God's will.

Jesus way , his diet, his "Meat" , or his substance IS to do God's will, John 4:34.In John 8:28 Jesus said he " Does NOTHING of himself", meaning he does NOTHING from his own will , meaning he does NOT have free will. Jesus is not infected with the Christian teaching of freewill.

 

[RWNJ]

Was he forced to do it against his will? No. He chose to follow the will of the Father. Did he have other things that he could have done? Yes. Why didn't Jesus call down fire from heaven and burn all the murderers? Or Maybe and earthquake or tornado, etc. etc.Obedience is not the lack of free will. If there is no free will, then why would God allow us to sin? How can God judge anyone of us if there is no free will? In your own words, what does it take to have free will?

Jesus did not " Choose" God's will, all he has EVER known is God's will.

Jesus way , his diet, his "Meat" , or his substance IS to do God's will, John 4:34.In John 8:28 Jesus said he " Does NOTHING of himself", meaning he does NOTHING from his own will , meaning he does NOT have free will. Jesus is not infected with the Christian teaching of freewill.

You said that you believe the Bible. Jesus said that "I and the Father are one." He also said "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." Scripture is clear on this. God exists as three persons, in a single Being. Jesus, as well as the Holy Spirit were there at the time of Creation. Jesus is co-equal with God. In fact, He is God. Our limited minds cannot comprehend this, but it is what Gods word teaches.

\ Jesus said he " Does NOTHING of himself"/ If you look at the context, it is clear that Jesus is referring to Judgement. This judgment claimed by Jesus is, however, engaged in, not in any spirit of self-exaltation or human arbitrariness, nor can it err, because it is merely as the executor of the Father’s will He judges.

 

[Mickiel]

Was he forced to do it against his will? No. He chose to follow the will of the Father. Did he have other things that he could have done? Yes. Why didn't Jesus call down fire from heaven and burn all the murderers? Or Maybe and earthquake or tornado, etc. etc.Obedience is not the lack of free will. If there is no free will, then why would God allow us to sin? How can God judge anyone of us if there is no free will? In your own words, what does it take to have free will?

Jesus did not " Choose" God's will, all he has EVER known is God's will.

Jesus way , his diet, his "Meat" , or his substance IS to do God's will, John 4:34.In John 8:28 Jesus said he " Does NOTHING of himself", meaning he does NOTHING from his own will , meaning he does NOT have free will. Jesus is not infected with the Christian teaching of freewill.

You said that you believe the Bible. Jesus said that "I and the Father are one." He also said "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." Scripture is clear on this. God exists as three persons, in a single Being. Jesus, as well as the Holy Spirit were there at the time of Creation. Jesus is co-equal with God. In fact, He is God. Our limited minds cannot comprehend this, but it is what Gods word teaches.

\ Jesus said he " Does NOTHING of himself"/ If you look at the context, it is clear that Jesus is referring to Judgement. This judgment claimed by Jesus is, however, engaged in, not in any spirit of self-exaltation or human arbitrariness, nor can it err, because it is merely as the executor of the Father’s will He judges.

God is not a person, a person is human , God is not human, so he is not "A Person or some weird three persons." Jesus is not God , he is " A God" , a son of A God, but he is not the Father God.

That is Christian nonsense and deception.

 

[sparky]

God doesn't need hell...we do....

~S~

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell,

<-----------because of him

 

[onefour1]

Was he forced to do it against his will? No. He chose to follow the will of the Father. Did he have other things that he could have done? Yes. Why didn't Jesus call down fire from heaven and burn all the murderers? Or Maybe and earthquake or tornado, etc. etc.Obedience is not the lack of free will. If there is no free will, then why would God allow us to sin? How can God judge anyone of us if there is no free will? In your own words, what does it take to have free will?

Jesus did not " Choose" God's will, all he has EVER known is God's will.

Jesus way , his diet, his "Meat" , or his substance IS to do God's will, John 4:34.In John 8:28 Jesus said he " Does NOTHING of himself", meaning he does NOTHING from his own will , meaning he does NOT have free will. Jesus is not infected with the Christian teaching of freewill.

Jesus is the great "I AM'. He has seen and contemplated all the sins of man since the beginning. He has also suffered for all those sins and knows the pain and suffering and the evil of all things.

John 8:57-59
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Isaiah 53:3
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:6
6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;

Having more light and truth and understanding than all of us he is able to succor his people.

Hebrews 2:18
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

I believe Christ is well acquainted with all the ways of darkness as well as the light. His understanding far surpasses our understanding. He has not only known the will of God but also the will of all God's children whether it be evil or good and Satan as well. He has experienced the consequences of it all even though he did no sin. Yet it was only the will of the Father that he followed.

When Jesus says that he does nothing of himself, this means that he chooses to do only the will of his Father, even at the peril of his own life. He wants us to be the same. He wants us to choose the will of the Father over our own will to do evil. Why does he choose it? Because it is the right thing to do. It is the way to obtain the greatest degree of happiness and joy and peace in our life. Jesus knew and understood this and he knew that he had a calling to fulfill as the messenger of salvation. Sure his body did not want to go through with the suffering but his will to follow his Father in heaven and his love for his fellow beings was greater than his personal sufferings. He then drank the bitter cup and finished his preparations unto the children of men.

Mickiel, in your opinion, does free will exist at all? Are you a determinist? In your opinion, under what conditions does free will exist if at all?

 

[MaryL]

Funny thing about that. Maybe God dosen't need heaven or hell, or angels or devils . Perhaps he/she is so bored with existence and takes on all lives under different guises, jumping around in time and space. because he/she has nothing better to do. So, we are basically the same entity. I haven't a clue , just passing that along.

 

[Mickiel]

Was he forced to do it against his will? No. He chose to follow the will of the Father. Did he have other things that he could have done? Yes. Why didn't Jesus call down fire from heaven and burn all the murderers? Or Maybe and earthquake or tornado, etc. etc.Obedience is not the lack of free will. If there is no free will, then why would God allow us to sin? How can God judge anyone of us if there is no free will? In your own words, what does it take to have free will?

Jesus did not " Choose" God's will, all he has EVER known is God's will.

Jesus way , his diet, his "Meat" , or his substance IS to do God's will, John 4:34.In John 8:28 Jesus said he " Does NOTHING of himself", meaning he does NOTHING from his own will , meaning he does NOT have free will. Jesus is not infected with the Christian teaching of freewill.

Jesus is the great "I AM'. He has seen and contemplated all the sins of man since the beginning. He has also suffered for all those sins and knows the pain and suffering and the evil of all things.

John 8:57-59
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Isaiah 53:3
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:6
6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;

Having more light and truth and understanding than all of us he is able to succor his people.

Hebrews 2:18
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

I believe Christ is well acquainted with all the ways of darkness as well as the light. His understanding far surpasses our understanding. He has not only known the will of God but also the will of all God's children whether it be evil or good and Satan as well. He has experienced the consequences of it all even though he did no sin. Yet it was only the will of the Father that he followed.

When Jesus says that he does nothing of himself, this means that he chooses to do only the will of his Father, even at the peril of his own life. He wants us to be the same. He wants us to choose the will of the Father over our own will to do evil. Why does he choose it? Because it is the right thing to do. It is the way to obtain the greatest degree of happiness and joy and peace in our life. Jesus knew and understood this and he knew that he had a calling to fulfill as the messenger of salvation. Sure his body did not want to go through with the suffering but his will to follow his Father in heaven and his love for his fellow beings was greater than his personal sufferings. He then drank the bitter cup and finished his preparations unto the children of men.

Mickiel, in your opinion, does free will exist at all? Are you a determinist? In your opinion, under what conditions does free will exist if at all?

In my view , humans have "Limited will". Human history is really the unfolding of God's will, nothing outside of God's will can happen. If something happened that God did not want to happen , then that something would be more powerful than God. So a human can only do or think that which is allowed by heaven. In John 3:27 we can only receive things , or even think things , that heaven gives us. In God we live , move and have our being ; that right there is the complete cycle of our lives. There is no free will in that. God is the author and finisher of ALL things, even our thinking consciousness. Free will does not exist under any conditions with God. God is a dictator , he is not asking what we think and our opinions. God has NEVER been like that. His rule is TOTAL!

People just really don't know God and how he is. Job 36:26 "God is great , we know him not!" Christians are just messing up the truth , because they don't know it. They mean well, but they just don't have a clue;

their not supposed to.

 

[Mickiel]

People need hell because they got hell in their minds.

 

[sparky]

hellifiknow....
~S~

 

[Mickiel]

Hell is as much a part of American language as "Food" is.

 

[Mickiel]

Christians are not really teaching salvation , their teaching a survival of the fittest program.

 

[Mudda]

Christians are not really teaching salvation , their teaching a survival of the fittest program.

So you're saying that Jesus died on the cross because he wasn't fit?

 

[Mickiel]

Listen to this ;

The Harrowing of Hell