Why support Israel?

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

So, you are admitting to being biased, and unfair?

Wow. I'm admitting that I would fight as vigorously if the conditions were the same. They are not.

Thus far we've had a bunch of Zionists here, suggesting that Jews deserve more rights, than others.

No. Jews want equal rights.

Oh yeah?
Why is it you can't say Catholic priest without thinking of pedophiles, but Jews can have Rabbi Pedos, and also Metitzah B'peh, where they suck infants gonads, and be just seen as the good guys.

 

[Shusha]

Notice, the devil's children leaves out "from Israel" when telling us what the Talmud says. Jews hate gentiles. The Talmud hates gentiles. The verse is only concerned about the lives of Jews. This verse really means that Jews would prefer every gentile on the planet die instead of even just one Jew.

And THERE you go looking for hate again when there is none.

 

[Shusha]

Why is it you can't say Catholic priest without thinking of pedophiles, ...

Great question. Why can't you?

 

[rylah]

And I just imagine that about all the Jews that had to go through all this....
Really folks, this is only a forum with 15 people. Imagine the life of Jews in those countries in Europe going though all this daily atmosphere.

Drying swamps in Palestine...malaria...what a party.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

So, you are admitting to being biased, and unfair?

Wow. I'm admitting that I would fight as vigorously if the conditions were the same. They are not.

Thus far we've had a bunch of Zionists here, suggesting that Jews deserve more rights, than others.

No. Jews want equal rights.

If Jews have it so bad (Today)
How come they can write signs saying non-Jews bring immodesty to their neighborhood.
If Christians, or Whites did the same, it would be on National news, no doubt.
Instead because Jews do it, it gets pushed aside.

<B>Hasidim Attack Hotel For Bringing 'Immodesty' To Williamsburg</B>

June 12, 2013

Hasidim Attack Hotel For Bringing 'Immodesty' To Williamsburg

A pashkvil (poster) attacking the Pointe Plaza Hotel because it rents rooms to non-Jews, causing immodesty to come to the 'Jewish' neighborhood of Williamsburg, Brooklyn.

 

[Shusha]

She just made a point. I think I'l just move this goal post over here. Sigh.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Why is it you can't say Catholic priest without thinking of pedophiles, ...

Great question. Why can't you?

Imagine if the Catholic community threw a fundraiser for their pedo clergy.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

And I just imagine that about all the Jews that had to go through all this....
Really folks, this is only a forum with 15 people. Imagine the life of Jews in those countries in Europe going though all this daily atmosphere.

Drying swamps in Palestine...malaria...what a party.

Some comments here by Zionists (Jews) here have been downright factual inaccuracies of blaming Poland for the Holocaust.

I've thus far haven't gone this far, but not a peep from any Zionists (Jews) about those factual inaccuracies.

 

[Shusha]

Why is it you can't say Catholic priest without thinking of pedophiles, ...

Great question. Why can't you?

Imagine if the Catholic community threw a fundraiser for their pedo clergy.

I didn't watch the video. But if you think I am going to support the abuse of children, regardless of the perpetrator, you can just slap yourself in the head. This is what I do as my life's passion -- protect women and children and all vulnerable people from abuse. So STFU about that.

Oh, and answer the question.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

So, you are admitting to being biased, and unfair?

Wow. I'm admitting that I would fight as vigorously if the conditions were the same. They are not.

Thus far we've had a bunch of Zionists here, suggesting that Jews deserve more rights, than others.

No. Jews want equal rights.

Jews have it so bad in the U.S, they need more special protections.

Study: Putting religion on your résumé hurts your job chances — unless you’re Jewish

Study: Putting religion on your résumé hurts your job chances — unless you’re Jewish

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Why is it you can't say Catholic priest without thinking of pedophiles, ...

Great question. Why can't you?

Imagine if the Catholic community threw a fundraiser for their pedo clergy.

I didn't watch the video. But if you think I am going to support the abuse of children, regardless of the perpetrator, you can just slap yourself in the head. This is what I do as my life's passion -- protect women and children and all vulnerable people from abuse. So STFU about that.

Oh, and answer the question.

So, why did the Orthodox Jewish community do just that?

Yes, abuse is wrong, including the Metizitzah B'peh the media has hidden from the public overwhelmingly.

 

[Shusha]

Nope. Goal post still looks shitty from here. Moving it again.

 

[Eloy]

The day I take my definition of a nation from the Russians or the Israelis is the day I stop thinking.

In order to think You need facts, a thing You try really hard to be offended by.
Xenophobia, which You portray pretty well, was one of the main reasons Jews had to build Israel.

Is it a problem that Jews identify with their tribe/nation, and be citizens of countries other than Israel? How about Greeks or Armenians in Your country, is their identity a threat as well?

You will not persuade anyone to your view if you call them names.
Unlike Zionists, I am not xenophobic.
But the topic is not about me; it is about Israel and why the Americans should support Israel.
The question is unclear because some people will interpret 'Israel' as the justification for a Jewish state in the Middle East to the massacres of Palestinian children and other civilians in Gaza and all the Israeli policies in between.

You maintain that all Jews, for example Jews living in San Carlos, California, identify more with Israel than the United States. What concerns me is that you might be right.

Don't You know that being offended" is NOT a valid argument? Xenophobia was indeed one of the main reasons Jews had to rebuild Israel. It's a simple fact, don't get offended.

Listen You try to equate Israel solely to its' wars.
Modern Zionism, or support for Israel, started long before that, at the time Palestinian Jews were massacred by their Arab neighbors under the Ottoman rule.

I don't know what Your problem with different ethnicities/people/nationalities in Your country, but their presence doesn't automatically mean they're spies of another nation state. This is just paranoia.


Again are You concerned with Greeks/French/Armenians/Russians in Your country or just the Jews?

As far as I know, no Jewish citizens of my country consider themselves to be Israelis.

It's possible, but irrelevant.
I think Your confusion comes from an idea that governments=nations/peoples.That one cannot exist without the other, or that by change of a govt. nations are erased.

Armenians can have Greek citizenship. They can support the Armenian govt. or not...as any people.

Have You heard Jews say "Am Israel Chai"? It means "The nation of Israel lives!"
Jews can have Israeli citizenship or not. They can support the Israeli govt, or not...as any people.

Agree?

I would have thought you are correct that not all Jews consider themselves Israeli but someone earlier who seems to speak for all Jews on this thread, I forget, maybe yourself, wrote that all Jews consider themselves Israelis. I found that concerning.

No, I never heard anyone say "Am Israel Chai". That sounds like Israeli morning tea.

I am well aware that there are nations within countries, for example, the Catalans are Spanish at the moment and the Scottish are British. Perhaps in the near future these two nations will become independent states but they do not currently identify with or have loyalty toward a country outside Spain or Britain. Native-born Moldovan Jews who, under Israeli law, have more rights of residency in Judea and Sumeria than indigenous Palestinians, when it suits them, claim to be Israelis, not Moldovans. This whole Zionist narrative is manifestly wrong.

 

[rylah]

In order to think You need facts, a thing You try really hard to be offended by.
Xenophobia, which You portray pretty well, was one of the main reasons Jews had to build Israel.

Is it a problem that Jews identify with their tribe/nation, and be citizens of countries other than Israel? How about Greeks or Armenians in Your country, is their identity a threat as well?

You will not persuade anyone to your view if you call them names.
Unlike Zionists, I am not xenophobic.
But the topic is not about me; it is about Israel and why the Americans should support Israel.
The question is unclear because some people will interpret 'Israel' as the justification for a Jewish state in the Middle East to the massacres of Palestinian children and other civilians in Gaza and all the Israeli policies in between.

You maintain that all Jews, for example Jews living in San Carlos, California, identify more with Israel than the United States. What concerns me is that you might be right.

Don't You know that being offended" is NOT a valid argument? Xenophobia was indeed one of the main reasons Jews had to rebuild Israel. It's a simple fact, don't get offended.

Listen You try to equate Israel solely to its' wars.
Modern Zionism, or support for Israel, started long before that, at the time Palestinian Jews were massacred by their Arab neighbors under the Ottoman rule.

I don't know what Your problem with different ethnicities/people/nationalities in Your country, but their presence doesn't automatically mean they're spies of another nation state. This is just paranoia.


Again are You concerned with Greeks/French/Armenians/Russians in Your country or just the Jews?

As far as I know, no Jewish citizens of my country consider themselves to be Israelis.

It's possible, but irrelevant.
I think Your confusion comes from an idea that governments=nations/peoples.That one cannot exist without the other, or that by change of a govt. nations are erased.

Armenians can have Greek citizenship. They can support the Armenian govt. or not...as any people.

Have You heard Jews say "Am Israel Chai"? It means "The nation of Israel lives!"
Jews can have Israeli citizenship or not. They can support the Israeli govt, or not...as any people.

Agree?

I would have thought you are correct that not all Jews consider themselves Israeli but someone earlier who seems to speak for all Jews on this thread, I forget, maybe yourself, wrote that all Jews consider themselves Israelis. I found that concerning.

No, I never heard anyone say "Am Israel Chai". That sounds like Israeli morning tea.

I am well aware that there are nations within countries, for example, the Catalans are Spanish at the moment and the Scottish are British. Perhaps in the near future these two nations will become independent states but they do not currently identify with or have loyalty toward a country outside Spain or Britain. Native-born Moldovan Jews who, under Israeli law, have more rights of residency in Judea and Sumeria than indigenous Palestinians, when it suits them, claim to be Israelis, not Moldovans. This whole Zionist narrative is manifestly wrong.

Well You never miss a chance , to miss the point.
Do You ever try to understand what You respond to?

Because from here it looks like You're jumping between subjects, being offended by simple facts.
Are my questions sooo difficult? Is it just the Jews that concern You?

 

[Coyote]

Poland owes the Jewish people and should not look for any gratitude.

And the US gainst alot from Israel. If it wouldn't, it wouldn't have helped the state. USA does nothing out of real kindness. It's all a matter of what they get from it

Just like every other country on the globe.

Oh really?
Poland owes Jews, Haha good joke.

Millions of Jewish refugees accepted by Poland.

First Jewish civil rights movement by Poland the Statute of Kalisz.

The highest number of people who saved Holocaust victim Jews, or Righteous among the Nations by Poland including Henryk Slawik, Irena Sendler, and Eugene Lazowski.

Jan Karski, and Witold Pilecki warned the World about the Holocaust.

Żegota the biggest organization to help Jews in WW2.

And yet the Polish people were in general Nazi supporters and Jew haters.

So no, I'm not impressed. Poland still owes the Jews.

Try a different tactic.

Your stupidity is prime example to why many Poles to this day don't like Jews.

Why the f*ck would Poles appreciate the dirties who typically not only neglect Polish victims of the Holocaust, but whom typically blame Poland for the Holocaust.

No, I've dealt with loads of Jews online, and I refuse to support your repulsive twits.

Ok so get it it that you irrationally hate an entire religious group...

Ever sat down to lunch with a Jew and chatted...like normal people do?

Supporting Israel is complicated and the OP is open ended. You can condemn or support state actions but the Jewish people, like any other, are diverse individuals. To hate them as a group based on religion or eth nic heritage is to demonize and thst leads to dehumanizing.

Well, I don't know how Jews can expect to be respected, after they've killed thousands of Poles following WW2, push dumb Polak jokes slander, push Poland did the Holocaust lies, and in general push up against Conservative, and Catholic values that most Poles hold dear.

No, I wouldn't say I hate all Jews, just a lot of them.

I've never even seen a Jew show any gratitude towards Poland.

So, why should I show them any gratitude?

No, I don't like Jews, in fact they're my least favorite people.

Hitler killed them. Poles and Jews both. In fact, a lot of POLISH Jews too. They were Poles...

 

[rylah]

OK, can't You understand people who support Kurdistan independence?
US or European citizens, even though they might be non-Kurdish.

 

[Coyote]

You haven't read the Talmud. You read some English hate-site which plucked out portions with which to demonize Jews.

I've invited Jews here to share the non-hate side of the Talmud. The Jews couldn't do it.

Its not especially difficult. So, clearly you spoke untruth when you said that you had read the Talmud. You have read only those portions of the Talmud frequently used by people filled with irrational toxic hate to inject that irrational toxic hate into others. And clearly it worked on you.

The complete set with Hebrew/Aramaic original text, English translation and commentary is 73 volumes, more than 6000 pages and has a shipping weight of 342 lbs. It is an extensive coding of Jewish law, commentary, instruction and folklore, legends, ethical writings and notes on observance. Its an astounding collection of writings spanning hundreds of years.

There is no "hate" in the Talmud. You only think you know about the "hate" parts because you have been trained to look for the hate parts and you see innocent things as hate parts because you enter the Jewish world with the pre-conception of hate. There is no "hate" in the Talmud. The only hate is that which people like you bring to it.

And the reason most Jews do not discuss the Talmud with rabid antisemites is because the POINT of the discussion when brought up by rabid antisemites is not to understand the Talmud better or to understand Jewish law better or to understand the Jewish people better -- its to use the discussion as a platform to spread more irrational toxic hate.


I'll leave you with a few things:

Seven things characterise the wise man, and seven the blockhead. The wise man speaks not before those who are his superiors, either in age or wisdom. He interrupts not others in the midst of their discourse. He replies not hastily. His questions are relevant to the subject, his answers, to the purpose. In delivering his sentiments he takes the first in order first, the last, last. What he understands not he says, ?I understand not.? He acknowledges his error, and is open to conviction. The reverse of all these characterizes the blockhead.

Whoever destroys a single life is as guilty as though he had destroyed the entire world and whoever rescues a single life earns as much merit as though he had rescued the entire world.

As the All-present is called compassionate and gracious, so be you also compassionate and gracious and offering free gifts to all. As the Holy One, blessed be He, is called righteous, be you also righteous; as He is called loving, be you also loving.

And, people like Bullet aren't really interested in discussing it. They have their websites with cherry picked out of context quotes, stripped of historical meaning, fluffed with evil overlord conspiracy theory crap and that's all they "need".

I find religion fascinating to discuss...but not with those who depend on hate sites for "information".

 

[Coyote]

And yet the Polish people were in general Nazi supporters and Jew haters.

So no, I'm not impressed. Poland still owes the Jews.

Try a different tactic.

Your stupidity is prime example to why many Poles to this day don't like Jews.

Why the f*ck would Poles appreciate the dirties who typically not only neglect Polish victims of the Holocaust, but whom typically blame Poland for the Holocaust.

No, I've dealt with loads of Jews online, and I refuse to support your repulsive twits.

The Poles are offended now, is that it?

Screw that. My family was wiped out, and it gives me the right to blame whoever the **** took place in it, even if they were not the ones who orchestrated it.

'
Why not also blame Jews for Group 13, Jewish Ghetto Police, Judenrat. Jewish Sonderkommandos, and Jewish Kapos?

Millions of Poles also died in WW2, why is this neglected?

You Jews are the most selfish pricks I've ever seen.

The Poles did not die because they were Poles.

Jews died because they were Jews.

The Judenrat were forced to become what they became because of the Nazi regime.

The Jews fairly gained their right to be selfish, as the world's nations don't care if they live or die.

Generalplan Ost shows Nazis had wicked plans for Slavs, including Poles.
Poles were also condemned by Nazis as racial Untermensch.


But, leave it to you a Jew, to think you're the star light victim.

Ya, Hitler hated the Slavs too. In fact, the Russians suffered huge losses to Hitler....the Seige of Leningrad...it's over looked in western history because of the Cold War and such. But they have many memorials to it. But that doesn't diminish the fact that Hitler managed to kill close to 2/3 of the Jews on the European continent. AND THEY HAD NO SAFE PLACE TO GO. Nowhere. The US turned them away, until it was too late.

 

[Coyote]

Well, he's right, none of these Talmud experts ever refute the quotes, because there's got to be a lot of truth behind them.

On the contrary, you can google a sound, Jewish-based, refutation of any of the common hate-claims. Or I can do it. Or any of the Jewish-learned members of this board can do it. But the response to that sound, Jewish-based, refutation is universally, "oh, you are just saying that, its not REALLY what Jews believe". (As though YOU not only have a right to decide what Jews believe, but somehow have this magic ability to determine what Jews really believe).

You see hate because you want to see hate. Because you've been conditioned to see hate.

And he asked if there was anything "good" in the Talmud and I responded with some examples.

Wikipedia sure does a shit job of refuting the Talmud Unmasked.

The Talmud Unmasked - Wikipedia

I don't think there is much to refute.

I don't really doubt it, either.

Because Jews resisting Christianity, probably did write anti-Christian texts to keep Jews, as Jews.

Wikipedia isn't refuting anything. It's discussing a book of that title, and it's criticisms of it are noteworty.

Accuracy and fabrication
Pranaitis could not read Aramaic (the primary language of the Talmud),[5] and probably used works by August Rohling and others as his sources.


The book includes numerous quotes from the Talmud and the Zohar.[6] His ignorance of some simple Talmudic Aramaic concepts and definitions, such as "hullin", was demonstrated during the Menahem Mendel Beilis blood libel case in which he testified as a "Talmud expert".[7][8]


Antisemitism
Scholars classify The Talmud Unmasked as an antisemitic and anti-Talmudic work, comparable to Der Talmud Jude by August Rohling (1871) and The Traditions Of The Jews by Johann Eisenmenger (1700).​

 

[Coyote]

Whoever destroys a single life is as guilty as though he had destroyed the entire world and whoever rescues a single life earns as much merit as though he had rescued the entire world.

Jesus was right when he said Jews were children of the devil, who when lying is speaking his native language. Here's a translation from Google Translate, rather than risk any bias from my own, or anyone else's, translation, of the relevant verse from an authentic Hebrew-language copy of the Talmud:

Sanhedrin 37a: Therefore, a single person was created to teach you that whoever loses one soul from Israel, the scriptures make it seem as if he has lost a whole world, and whoever sustains one soul from Israel

Notice, the devil's children leaves out "from Israel" when telling us what the Talmud says. Jews hate gentiles. The Talmud hates gentiles. The verse is only concerned about the lives of Jews. This verse really means that Jews would prefer every gentile on the planet die instead of even just one Jew.

Saving A Person Is Like Saving The World
"Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."

That is a wonderful concept to live by...