Why so much hate for the Confederacy.? It can't be about slavery.

[Asclepias]

Why would it bother me? A flag cant do anything to me.

Since a flag cannot do anything to you, what's the problem with it being on a government building?

Its disrespectful to my ancestors. The government should not support disrespectful displays especially with a flag that was used by traitors.

I can see the aspect of it disrespecting your ancestors...but if it weren't for the South, there would be very few blacks in this country,

Who told you that? Blacks have been in this country before Columbus ever made it here. Blacks came here with Columbus as well.

But the onslaught of blacks began with the slave traders. Honestly, you could be in Africa right now if it hadn't been for the slave trade.

That would be fine if I was in Africa as it is a beautiful place I plan on revisiting and eventually dying in but thats not really a certainty that I would be. Like I said before there was already a population of Blacks here in the US before Columbus even arrived.

 

[Boss]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

 

[Asclepias]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

The north held enemy territory. You sound silly as usual.

 

[Syriusly]

Pretty good read. It covers Lincoln's EP and his rationale.

The Emancipation Proclamation Abraham Lincoln s Constitutionally Modest Proposal - Online Library of Law Liberty

[excerpt]
Lincoln himself, however, asserted that the states could not leave the Union, and if he were to remain consistent to that argument, he was still faced with the problem that he had no Constitutional authority to interfere with slavery in the states where it existed. Lincoln found a solution to that problem in the commander-in-chief power granted to him by the Constitution. Although Lincoln accepted the proposition that the Constitution contained at least implicit protections for southern slavery, he now argued that there was another constitutional provision that pushed him in the opposite direction. If emancipation was necessary for military success against those in rebellion, than it would be his duty to pursue it as commander-in-chief.

Which was MY argument.

Again, the Confiscation Acts of 1862 were a legislative act. And it was this act that empowered the president to confiscate and free slaves. Additionally, the US wasn't at war at the time Lincoln made his statement about constitutional authority. Once at war, he can take executive action against anyone offering aid to the enemy or contributing to the war effort.

Slaves were NOT freed Constitutionally under the laws of this country until ratification of the 13th Amendment.

LOL- now you are qualifying- before you said no slaves were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- despite the actual fact that millions of slaves were in fact freed prior the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

If you want to believe that it was unconstitutional up to that point- well join the ranks of those who believe the Income Tax is unconstitutional and others with outlying constitutional claims.

 

[Syriusly]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

Translation: Boss just doesn't want to admit that the Emancipation Proclamation resulted in the freedom of millions of American slaves.

 

[Syriusly]

Since a flag cannot do anything to you, what's the problem with it being on a government building?

Its disrespectful to my ancestors. The government should not support disrespectful displays especially with a flag that was used by traitors.

I can see the aspect of it disrespecting your ancestors...but if it weren't for the South, there would be very few blacks in this country,

Who told you that? Blacks have been in this country before Columbus ever made it here. Blacks came here with Columbus as well.

But the onslaught of blacks began with the slave traders. Honestly, you could be in Africa right now if it hadn't been for the slave trade.

That would be fine if I was in Africa as it is a beautiful place I plan on revisiting and eventually dying in but thats not really a certainty that I would be. Like I said before there was already a population of Blacks here in the US before Columbus even arrived.

Hmmmm okay I have got to hear this theory- what were the 'blacks' here in the United States before Columbus 'discovered' the Americas?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

. Additionally, the US wasn't at war at the time Lincoln made his statement about constitutional authority. Once at war, he can take executive action against anyone offering aid to the enemy or contributing to the war effort.

Lincoln always said it wasn't a war because the south never left. It was an insurrection, in his words. So where did his war powers come from?

 

[Asclepias]

Its disrespectful to my ancestors. The government should not support disrespectful displays especially with a flag that was used by traitors.

I can see the aspect of it disrespecting your ancestors...but if it weren't for the South, there would be very few blacks in this country,

Who told you that? Blacks have been in this country before Columbus ever made it here. Blacks came here with Columbus as well.

But the onslaught of blacks began with the slave traders. Honestly, you could be in Africa right now if it hadn't been for the slave trade.

That would be fine if I was in Africa as it is a beautiful place I plan on revisiting and eventually dying in but thats not really a certainty that I would be. Like I said before there was already a population of Blacks here in the US before Columbus even arrived.

Hmmmm okay I have got to hear this theory- what were the 'blacks' here in the United States before Columbus 'discovered' the Americas?

Its not a theory. Its a fact. Columbus even mentioned it himself. Also there is a nation inside the US borders that won back some of their land from the US and is recognized by the UN as its own country.

About the Official Empire Washitaw de Dugdahmoundyah

Here is the UN charter.

Full text of AFFIDAVIT OF NATIONALITY washita sovereign nation nis 21 593.pdf PDFy mirror

 

[Asclepias]

. Additionally, the US wasn't at war at the time Lincoln made his statement about constitutional authority. Once at war, he can take executive action against anyone offering aid to the enemy or contributing to the war effort.

Lincoln always said it wasn't a war because the south never left. It was an insurrection, in his words. So where did his war powers come from?

From the traitors attacking Ft Sumter.

 

[Boss]

No... You can't free something you don't have in your possession to free.... sorry.... can't be done.
...

Yet he did. Lincoln also signed the law in 1862 that gave freedom to all the slaves in D.C.

All the areas your map shows where slaves were freed is CSA territory which was not under Lincoln's control until the CSA was defeated.

It was Union territory all the time.
And the Union controlled those areas defeated by force of arms.

And yes, the slaves were freed.

Answer my question now... Why did Lincoln not free the slaves held in West Virginia?

Part of the deal with being allowed into the Union as a new state was on the condition West Virginia emancipate their slaves.

You are clueless on the Constitution and history. I seriously doubt there were many slaves in D.C. but it's not a state so there is the statutory difference. The president could abolish slavery in DC, just as many other states had done... any state could have voted to abolish slavery and be a free state. If they did and you wanted to have and keep slaves, you'd have to take them elsewhere.

No... the slaves WEREN'T freed... and we can keep repeating these lines to each other like 7-year-olds if you like, you're not going to bully me. Because Lincoln issued a piece of paper that said slaves in the South were free, did not mean the slave owners in the South rushed out to unchain their slaves! If that's what you think... you must be about 7 years old..

Hmmm yes- I can keep repeating the facts- and you of course can keep trying to ignore the facts- because that is what you Confederate Revisionists do.

• As I have pointed out- slaves were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation in specific regions held by Federal troops.
  
• As I have pointed out- the majority of slaves were freed from legal slavery as Federal troops liberated rebel territories.
• And slaves escaping their slave masters were immediately freed once they escaped to any territory held by Federal troops.

Millions of slaves were eventually freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- an amazing accomplishment from one single act.

Reciting bullet points you've been taught by your United States textbooks is not impressing me. NO ONE was freed by the EP! It took the 13th Amendment to end Slavery in America.... that IS a FACT!

You're simply wrong.

From my link.


More than a year after the proclamation took effect Lincoln declared that clearly no harm had been done by it.

"On the contrary, it shows a gain of quite a hundred and thirty thousand soldiers, seamen, and laborers. These are palpable facts, about which, as facts, there can be no cavilling. We have the men; and we could not have had them without the measure.

And now let any Union man who complains of the measure, test himself by writing down in one line that he is for subduing the rebellion by force of arms; and in the next, that he is for taking these hundred and thirty thousand men from the Union side, and placing them where they would be but for the measure he condemns. If he can not face his case so stated, it is only because he cannot face the truth."

I am NOT wrong... You aren't actually reciting Lincoln responding to the argument we are debating. This is essentially his rationale for his actions which were indeed Constitutionally questionable....then and now. It's equivalent to Bush's case for war in Iraq. He is finding the moral high ground and establishing it as the rationale for 600k dead soldiers and a nation torn apart by a brutal and bloody uncivil war.

 

[RKMBrown]

Why would it bother me? A flag cant do anything to me.

Since a flag cannot do anything to you, what's the problem with it being on a government building?

Its disrespectful to my ancestors. The government should not support disrespectful displays especially with a flag that was used by traitors.

I can see the aspect of it disrespecting your ancestors...but if it weren't for the South, there would be very few blacks in this country,

Who told you that? Blacks have been in this country before Columbus ever made it here. Blacks came here with Columbus as well.

But the onslaught of blacks began with the slave traders. Honestly, you could be in Africa right now if it hadn't been for the slave trade.

And we'd be a better country if he was in Africa.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[Q
Since a flag cannot do anything to you, what's the problem with it being on a government building?

Its disrespectful to my ancestors. The government should not support disrespectful displays especially with a flag that was used by traitors.

HAHAHA. So now we need a govt bureaucracy to make sure your ancestors are not disrespected?? You sillky libs want govt doing everything.

 

[Boss]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

The north held enemy territory. You sound silly as usual.

And the EP did not apply to slaves in northern-held territory.

 

[Boss]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

Translation: Boss just doesn't want to admit that the Emancipation Proclamation resulted in the freedom of millions of American slaves.

Well... the EP was a strategic military tactic that enabled the North to win the Civil War and by doing so, allowed the United States Congress to change the Constitution and outlaw slavery to free all slaves in America.

But the EP didn't actually "free" a single slave.

 

[Asclepias]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

The north held enemy territory. You sound silly as usual.

And the EP did not apply to slaves in northern-held territory.

Yes actually it did.

 

[Asclepias]

[Q
Since a flag cannot do anything to you, what's the problem with it being on a government building?

Its disrespectful to my ancestors. The government should not support disrespectful displays especially with a flag that was used by traitors.

HAHAHA. So now we need a govt bureaucracy to make sure your ancestors are not disrespected?? You sillky libs want govt doing everything.

I guess thats why you pouty conservatives want the government to respect your traitor ancestors?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The SAME thing applied to the Emancipation Proclamation... it was a 'war powers' act from the commander-in-chief of the military, and couldn't Constitutionally be anything else.

Slaves were NOT freed Constitutionally under the laws of this country until ratification of the 13th Amendment.

Yup - when the war ended a strong argument was made that the slaves were no longer free.

 

[Boss]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

The north held enemy territory. You sound silly as usual.

And the EP did not apply to slaves in northern-held territory.

Yes actually it did.

No, actually it didn't.

 

[Asclepias]

Wrong.

The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Slavery is still legal. Read the 13th amendment you just used as proof.

...all persons held as slaves within the rebellious states are, and henceforward shall be free...

Translation: All persons held as slaves in enemy territory we don't control are free!

Okay... Boss Proclamation: "All American political prisoners held abroad are and henceforward shall be free!" Yay me... I just freed every American political prisoner in the World! Go write history books about me and build monuments to me! Put my picture on your pennies!

The north held enemy territory. You sound silly as usual.

And the EP did not apply to slaves in northern-held territory.

Yes actually it did.

No, actually it didn't.

Yes, actually it did. Repeating your inaccuracy wont make it correct.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
LOL- now you are qualifying- before you said no slaves were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- despite the actual fact that millions of slaves were in fact freed prior the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

.

Lincoln saying the slaves were free did not free them. It was just words he said applied to a foreign country.!!