Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[OKTexas]

How did anyone know if they hadn't showed up to collect them themselves?

.

Is that a rhetorical statement?

Nope.

.

 

[candycorn]

 

[OKTexas]

Why exactly did they choose for themselves NOT to stay with any other nation they entered in their path, and live there rather than travel on to the United States?

We're supposed to be the land of opportunity. I guess we're not the nation we once claimed to be.

Are parents responsible for what happens to their children when they venture through several nations with their only goal to enter the United States?

Are parents responsible for this inhuman separation policy?

All criminals are responsible for being separated from their children. Go out and commit a crime and see how fast you're separated form your family. The parents put their children in the situation, yes, they are to blame.

.

 

[candycorn]

Trump was voted in because of the wall, that is building power.

Not from the majority of Americans.

You shouldn't try to educate the Trump is God supporters. Trump won because he got the most electoral votes. He lost the popular vote.

In 2020 the liberals get to change the federal Congressional districts. By pushing B.S. laws that offend the masses, the Republicans are absolutely guaranteeing they will be in the minority in just about every district in America after 2020.

I'm not a liberal, but once these arrogant build the wall guys get knocked on their ass, they can decide to fight or die. They are not strategists. 2020 won't come none too soon.

Your stupidity is showing now, the States do the redistricting not congress and the majority of the State legislatures aren't liberal. In fact liberal States will be losing seats to more conservative States.

.

Redistricting is subject to Congressional approval. And I hate to bust your bubble son, but it is not liberals have been gaining so much ground, but in states where it REALLY matters - places where there are a lot of electoral college votes, the liberals have been taking over districts AND areas near red districts so as to be able to dilute the Republican votes in the future.

No. Congress does not approve redistricting on the federal level.

Gerrymandering: How to Stifle Democracy

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Trump was voted in because of the wall, that is building power.

Not from the majority of Americans.

You shouldn't try to educate the Trump is God supporters. Trump won because he got the most electoral votes. He lost the popular vote.

In 2020 the liberals get to change the federal Congressional districts. By pushing B.S. laws that offend the masses, the Republicans are absolutely guaranteeing they will be in the minority in just about every district in America after 2020.

I'm not a liberal, but once these arrogant build the wall guys get knocked on their ass, they can decide to fight or die. They are not strategists. 2020 won't come none too soon.

Your stupidity is showing now, the States do the redistricting not congress and the majority of the State legislatures aren't liberal. In fact liberal States will be losing seats to more conservative States.

.

Redistricting is subject to Congressional approval. And I hate to bust your bubble son, but it is not liberals have been gaining so much ground, but in states where it REALLY matters - places where there are a lot of electoral college votes, the liberals have been taking over districts AND areas near red districts so as to be able to dilute the Republican votes in the future.

No. Congress does not approve redistricting on the federal level.

Gerrymandering: How to Stifle Democracy

Let me assure you that what is taught in public schools and what goes on in reality are two different things.

Although the American Bar Association, the most liberal organization in the United States, has NO power or authority when it comes to judges, a lawyer's chances of every becoming a judge without their endorsement is zero to none.

Likewise, while not mentioned in any official document, sitting Congressmen and Senators play a pivotal role in the way districts are redrawn. If you want to believe differently, you are most assuredly welcome to. If you want to know how politics REALLY work, join your local party and become an officer in it. Go to the meetings and volunteer for different projects. That way you will have the facts and you won't want to waste your time with B.S. you learned in school that only gives you the very basic information.

 

[OKTexas]

View attachment 237210

Crossing in the San Diego sector went form 100,000 to 5,000 after a barrier was erected. They work, period. Visa overstays is a simple fix if politicians had the will.

.

 

[OKTexas]

Trump was voted in because of the wall, that is building power.

Not from the majority of Americans.

You shouldn't try to educate the Trump is God supporters. Trump won because he got the most electoral votes. He lost the popular vote.

In 2020 the liberals get to change the federal Congressional districts. By pushing B.S. laws that offend the masses, the Republicans are absolutely guaranteeing they will be in the minority in just about every district in America after 2020.

I'm not a liberal, but once these arrogant build the wall guys get knocked on their ass, they can decide to fight or die. They are not strategists. 2020 won't come none too soon.

Your stupidity is showing now, the States do the redistricting not congress and the majority of the State legislatures aren't liberal. In fact liberal States will be losing seats to more conservative States.

.

Redistricting is subject to Congressional approval. And I hate to bust your bubble son, but it is not liberals have been gaining so much ground, but in states where it REALLY matters - places where there are a lot of electoral college votes, the liberals have been taking over districts AND areas near red districts so as to be able to dilute the Republican votes in the future.

No. Congress does not approve redistricting on the federal level.

Gerrymandering: How to Stifle Democracy

Don't concern yourself, this dude just disappears from a conversation when proven wrong.

.

 

[danielpalos]

Why exactly did they choose for themselves NOT to stay with any other nation they entered in their path, and live there rather than travel on to the United States?

We're supposed to be the land of opportunity. I guess we're not the nation we once claimed to be.

Are parents responsible for what happens to their children when they venture through several nations with their only goal to enter the United States?

Are parents responsible for this inhuman separation policy?

All criminals are responsible for being separated from their children. Go out and commit a crime and see how fast you're separated form your family. The parents put their children in the situation, yes, they are to blame.

.

seeking asylum is not unlawful. the right wing just like to blame the Poor.

 

[sealybobo]

They will. And they’ll convince us we need them. And before wages go up because of supply and demand.

As a business owner do you want to raise wages or flood the market with workers?

Then what about after the trump Recession gets here?

You mean the Trump recession that's been coming for the last two years? Credit card companies are reporting a 5% increase in holiday shopping this year. That's the strongest holiday purchases in 6 years. 850 billion dollars to be more accurate.

I'm not against anything that will contribute to the security of our country and stop the invasion of foreigners that come here to break our laws.

No, you right wingers have been predicting a recession not us.

Obama gave us the longest economic expansion. Slow and steady.

I don't know when the next recession is going to happen. What I worry about is how a Trump administration would handle it.

I'd rather that problem be handled by a professional businessman than a community organizer.

Yea he will just go bankrupt. That won't hurt him at all. You may suffer some pain however.

God I hope he ends social security. A truck driver should be counting on social security. I would love it if Trump renigged on the debt and just put the USA into bankruptsy.

You would support it. Dummy.

I would support phasing out SS. You can't tell people who put into the system their entire lives that they aren't gong to get what was promised. However you can restructure retirement for new generations entering the working world.

Trump owned or operated over 500 companies in his career. He filed bankruptcy only four times, and most of those was because of a bad economy when many companies were doing the same.

How many of those 500 closed rather than went bankrupt? How many contractors didn't get paid? Trump sucks as a person and he's a shady businessman.

 

[OKTexas]

Why exactly did they choose for themselves NOT to stay with any other nation they entered in their path, and live there rather than travel on to the United States?

We're supposed to be the land of opportunity. I guess we're not the nation we once claimed to be.

Are parents responsible for what happens to their children when they venture through several nations with their only goal to enter the United States?

Are parents responsible for this inhuman separation policy?

All criminals are responsible for being separated from their children. Go out and commit a crime and see how fast you're separated form your family. The parents put their children in the situation, yes, they are to blame.

.

seeking asylum is not unlawful. the right wing just like to blame the Poor.

Crossing the border away from a port of entry is unlawful. Just like with all criminals, you deal with the crime first, and the excuses later. BTW only about 9% of asylum claims are approved.

.

 

[sealybobo]

They will. And they’ll convince us we need them. And before wages go up because of supply and demand.

As a business owner do you want to raise wages or flood the market with workers?

Then what about after the trump Recession gets here?

You mean the Trump recession that's been coming for the last two years? Credit card companies are reporting a 5% increase in holiday shopping this year. That's the strongest holiday purchases in 6 years. 850 billion dollars to be more accurate.

I'm not against anything that will contribute to the security of our country and stop the invasion of foreigners that come here to break our laws.

No, you right wingers have been predicting a recession not us.

Obama gave us the longest economic expansion. Slow and steady.

I don't know when the next recession is going to happen. What I worry about is how a Trump administration would handle it.

I'd rather that problem be handled by a professional businessman than a community organizer.

Yea he will just go bankrupt. That won't hurt him at all. You may suffer some pain however.

God I hope he ends social security. A truck driver should be counting on social security. I would love it if Trump renigged on the debt and just put the USA into bankruptsy.

You would support it. Dummy.

I would support phasing out SS. You can't tell people who put into the system their entire lives that they aren't gong to get what was promised. However you can restructure retirement for new generations entering the working world.

Trump owned or operated over 500 companies in his career. He filed bankruptcy only four times, and most of those was because of a bad economy when many companies were doing the same.

Editorial: Trump Foundation scandal exposes grifter in chief

It’s the details that tell the real story about Donald J. Trump, the self-proclaimed philanthropist. It’s clear in the settlement his foundation just reached with New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood that Trump’s cherished charitable cause was himself.

Underwood has accused the Donald J. Trump Foundation of engaging in “a shocking pattern of illegality” and “functioning as little more than a checkbook to serve Mr. Trump’s business and political interests.”

But those words are not nearly as damning as the details behind the

This is where you idiots accept it when Trump says doing this makes him smart and that everyone does it.

Its definition of “charity” apparently included settling six-figure lawsuits against Trump’s businesses, such as the one from Palm Beach over building regulations at Mar-a-Lago and another from a golfer saying he was cheated out of a $1 million prize for hitting a hole-in-one at Trump’s New Jersey course.

Downright smarmy are some of the personal purchases from the ostensible charity: a $20,000 life-size portrait of Trump; $12,000 for a football helmet signed by former NFL quarterback Tim Tebow and $7 to the Boy Scouts — presumably to cover the dues of then-11-year-old Don Jr. One would think a celebrated real estate mogul could have paid for all of those expenses out of his own checkbook.

The foundation also is accused of blatantly crossing the line against using its funds for political purposes — most notably, the 2016 Trump presidential campaign. Evidence includes an email from the Trump campaign manager to the foundation treasurer asking for proceeds from an Iowa fundraiser.

Even with the dissolution of the foundation, the attorney general plans to continue pursuing $2.8 million in restitution and additional penalties, and to prohibit the president and his three oldest children from ever serving on the board of another New York nonprofit.

Your defense of this is noted.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You mean the Trump recession that's been coming for the last two years? Credit card companies are reporting a 5% increase in holiday shopping this year. That's the strongest holiday purchases in 6 years. 850 billion dollars to be more accurate.

I'm not against anything that will contribute to the security of our country and stop the invasion of foreigners that come here to break our laws.

No, you right wingers have been predicting a recession not us.

Obama gave us the longest economic expansion. Slow and steady.

I don't know when the next recession is going to happen. What I worry about is how a Trump administration would handle it.

I'd rather that problem be handled by a professional businessman than a community organizer.

Yea he will just go bankrupt. That won't hurt him at all. You may suffer some pain however.

God I hope he ends social security. A truck driver should be counting on social security. I would love it if Trump renigged on the debt and just put the USA into bankruptsy.

You would support it. Dummy.

I would support phasing out SS. You can't tell people who put into the system their entire lives that they aren't gong to get what was promised. However you can restructure retirement for new generations entering the working world.

Trump owned or operated over 500 companies in his career. He filed bankruptcy only four times, and most of those was because of a bad economy when many companies were doing the same.

How many of those 500 closed rather than went bankrupt? How many contractors didn't get paid? Trump sucks as a person and he's a shady businessman.

Does it really matter to people with TDS? Not really. It wouldn't matter if not one company closed.

 

[sealybobo]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

How about this. If Trump is a 2 term president we will build a wall. With us on the outside. Deal?

 

[Flopper]

Utter horseshit. All your claims have been refuted in this forum 1000 times. The wall has been proven the most effective method for controlling illegal immigration.

Nope. And no, it hasn't.

A wall actually increases illegal immigration by making it more expensive to cross the border. Before a wall immigrants would come here, earn money, and then go home. There were entire seasonal work forces that would arrive from Mexico, help bring in a harvest of a particular crop, earn some money and go home. And come back the next year for the next harvest season.

Now people have to work for years to pay back the cost of crossing the border. Meaning they have to stay longer. And when they stay longer, they have more kids here, there is less incentive for them to go home.

Worse, about a third of illegals are folks who merely overstayed visas. Which walls do nothing to prevent.

Walls are expensive to make expensive to buy land for and even more expensive to maintain. They can be circumvented by anyone who really wants to. To quote Trump's own chief of staff,

"the bottom line is the fence doesn't stop anybody who really wants to get across. You go under, you go around, you go through it. And that's what the ranchers tell us, is that they don't need a fence."

Mick Mulvaney

Mick Mulvaney in 2015: Trump's views on border wall 'simplistic,' 'absurd and almost childish' - CNNPolitics

Nor does the fence keep them from coming back.

The E-Verify system works on all of those fronts. It eliminates the work that illegals come here for, or those overstaying their visas require in order to stay here. Compared to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. Stripped of the means of making a living, most would go home where its far cheaper.

The wall is orders of magnitude MORE expensive, takes years to build, is wildly expensive to maintain, is ineffective, doesn't address 1/3 or illegal immigrants at all, and actually increases the incentive for them to stay once they've arrived. Its a stupid proposal.

E-Verify is orders of magnitude LESS expensive, it is already in place, its maintenance costs are minimal (a website, phone line and paperwork), its very effective, it DOES address the 1/3 of illegal immigrants that the wall ignores, and it REDUCES the incentive for illegals to stay here. Its a smart proposal.

A wall will also increase the number illegal immigrants because the increased border security makes it harder for migrants to leave without being picked by immigration and getting back in the US is harder so once in they are here to stay.

No. When they leave, they can do so at a point of entry. Nobody is going to stop a Mexican from going back to Mexico.

That's not so. The border patrol watches areas around ports of entry closely for undocumented immigrants. Telling the border patrol that you're going home does not cut it. You might get expedited deportation but you will be deported unless you demand a hearing are ask for asylum.

So if they're going home anyway, what difference would that make?

You 're missing the point. The border patrol has no way of knowing if an undocumented immigrant is coming or going unless they are caught actually crossing the border. When caught they will often say they are returning home to escape deportation and possible detention. Usually deportation carries a penalty of barred legal entrance for 3 to 5 years.

The border patrol watches areas close to ports of entry because they are the most common points for illegal entry. Only about one in a hundred vehicles are stopped for inspection at the border. On an average day 40,000 vehicles cross at the San Diego crossing and over a 100,000 people but during the heavies periods those number can be much higher. Even today, forged documents are still used to gain entry.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Not from the majority of Americans.

You shouldn't try to educate the Trump is God supporters. Trump won because he got the most electoral votes. He lost the popular vote.

In 2020 the liberals get to change the federal Congressional districts. By pushing B.S. laws that offend the masses, the Republicans are absolutely guaranteeing they will be in the minority in just about every district in America after 2020.

I'm not a liberal, but once these arrogant build the wall guys get knocked on their ass, they can decide to fight or die. They are not strategists. 2020 won't come none too soon.

Your stupidity is showing now, the States do the redistricting not congress and the majority of the State legislatures aren't liberal. In fact liberal States will be losing seats to more conservative States.

.

Redistricting is subject to Congressional approval. And I hate to bust your bubble son, but it is not liberals have been gaining so much ground, but in states where it REALLY matters - places where there are a lot of electoral college votes, the liberals have been taking over districts AND areas near red districts so as to be able to dilute the Republican votes in the future.

No. Congress does not approve redistricting on the federal level.

Gerrymandering: How to Stifle Democracy

Don't concern yourself, this dude just disappears from a conversation when proven wrong.

.

Do you get paid to lie?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

View attachment 237210

Crossing in the San Diego sector went form 100,000 to 5,000 after a barrier was erected. They work, period. Visa overstays is a simple fix if politicians had the will.

.

Since you waste so much time looking for relevance, why not run for public office and show Congress how simple the fixes are.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nope. And no, it hasn't.

A wall actually increases illegal immigration by making it more expensive to cross the border. Before a wall immigrants would come here, earn money, and then go home. There were entire seasonal work forces that would arrive from Mexico, help bring in a harvest of a particular crop, earn some money and go home. And come back the next year for the next harvest season.

Now people have to work for years to pay back the cost of crossing the border. Meaning they have to stay longer. And when they stay longer, they have more kids here, there is less incentive for them to go home.

Worse, about a third of illegals are folks who merely overstayed visas. Which walls do nothing to prevent.

Walls are expensive to make expensive to buy land for and even more expensive to maintain. They can be circumvented by anyone who really wants to. To quote Trump's own chief of staff,

Nor does the fence keep them from coming back.

The E-Verify system works on all of those fronts. It eliminates the work that illegals come here for, or those overstaying their visas require in order to stay here. Compared to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. Stripped of the means of making a living, most would go home where its far cheaper.

The wall is orders of magnitude MORE expensive, takes years to build, is wildly expensive to maintain, is ineffective, doesn't address 1/3 or illegal immigrants at all, and actually increases the incentive for them to stay once they've arrived. Its a stupid proposal.

E-Verify is orders of magnitude LESS expensive, it is already in place, its maintenance costs are minimal (a website, phone line and paperwork), its very effective, it DOES address the 1/3 of illegal immigrants that the wall ignores, and it REDUCES the incentive for illegals to stay here. Its a smart proposal.

A wall will also increase the number illegal immigrants because the increased border security makes it harder for migrants to leave without being picked by immigration and getting back in the US is harder so once in they are here to stay.

No. When they leave, they can do so at a point of entry. Nobody is going to stop a Mexican from going back to Mexico.

That's not so. The border patrol watches areas around ports of entry closely for undocumented immigrants. Telling the border patrol that you're going home does not cut it. You might get expedited deportation but you will be deported unless you demand a hearing are ask for asylum.

So if they're going home anyway, what difference would that make?

You 're missing the point. The border patrol has no way of knowing if an undocumented immigrant is coming or going unless they are caught actually crossing the border. When caught they will often say they are returning home to escape deportation and possible detention. Usually deportation carries a penalty of barred legal entrance for 3 to 5 years.

The border patrol watches areas close to ports of entry because they are the most common points for illegal entry. Less than one in a hundred vehicles are stopped for inspection at the border. Even today, forged documents are still used to gain entry.

Point I was making is that if an illegal is returning to Mexico, nobody is going to bother them. Even it it's learned they are an illegal, as long as they're leaving, that's all that counts. Entering the US? That may be a different story.

If an illegal is driving through customs, nobody is going to ask if he was legal while he was in the US.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

I'm going to get away from the side arguments here and remind you that you've answered your own question.

None of the choices you gave are reasons any substantial percentage of people can weigh in. Your choices are non-sequiturs.

The greatest reason NOT to build the wall is that the machine, which is primarily business, benefits. In turn, this creates opportunities for landlords to rent, retail sales to sell more products, etc. It's a win / win. It is the free market at its finest.

By contrast, those arguing for the wall are always invoking the names of communist countries, socialist countries, and / or those at war. The build the wall guys come up with communist examples and they give you socialist solutions. They are opposed to the idea of rehabilitating those in prisons and putting them in those jobs now occupied with undocumented foreigners. They are opposed to cutting down on the numbers of drug users the U.S. creates. The real reason the build the wall guys want the wall is simply to keep people out. Without SOMEONE available to do the work, nothing gets done. Businesses leave the U.S. and go where there are more workers, less taxes and fewer regulations.

If you want to live in a dictatorship there is no reason not to build a wall. If you enjoy Liberty and Freedom, the list of reasons NOT to build the wall are endless.

 

[OKTexas]

You shouldn't try to educate the Trump is God supporters. Trump won because he got the most electoral votes. He lost the popular vote.

In 2020 the liberals get to change the federal Congressional districts. By pushing B.S. laws that offend the masses, the Republicans are absolutely guaranteeing they will be in the minority in just about every district in America after 2020.

I'm not a liberal, but once these arrogant build the wall guys get knocked on their ass, they can decide to fight or die. They are not strategists. 2020 won't come none too soon.

Your stupidity is showing now, the States do the redistricting not congress and the majority of the State legislatures aren't liberal. In fact liberal States will be losing seats to more conservative States.

.

Redistricting is subject to Congressional approval. And I hate to bust your bubble son, but it is not liberals have been gaining so much ground, but in states where it REALLY matters - places where there are a lot of electoral college votes, the liberals have been taking over districts AND areas near red districts so as to be able to dilute the Republican votes in the future.

No. Congress does not approve redistricting on the federal level.

Gerrymandering: How to Stifle Democracy

Don't concern yourself, this dude just disappears from a conversation when proven wrong.

.

Do you get paid to lie?

You sure ran like a scalded dog from our conversation concerning redistricting. That made my statement a fact. Deal with it child.

.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean the Trump recession that's been coming for the last two years? Credit card companies are reporting a 5% increase in holiday shopping this year. That's the strongest holiday purchases in 6 years. 850 billion dollars to be more accurate.

I'm not against anything that will contribute to the security of our country and stop the invasion of foreigners that come here to break our laws.

No, you right wingers have been predicting a recession not us.

Obama gave us the longest economic expansion. Slow and steady.

I don't know when the next recession is going to happen. What I worry about is how a Trump administration would handle it.

I'd rather that problem be handled by a professional businessman than a community organizer.

Yea he will just go bankrupt. That won't hurt him at all. You may suffer some pain however.

God I hope he ends social security. A truck driver should be counting on social security. I would love it if Trump renigged on the debt and just put the USA into bankruptsy.

You would support it. Dummy.

I would support phasing out SS. You can't tell people who put into the system their entire lives that they aren't gong to get what was promised. However you can restructure retirement for new generations entering the working world.

Trump owned or operated over 500 companies in his career. He filed bankruptcy only four times, and most of those was because of a bad economy when many companies were doing the same.

How many of those 500 closed rather than went bankrupt? How many contractors didn't get paid? Trump sucks as a person and he's a shady businessman.

You say he sucks as a person based on pure speculation? How does closing a business mean that Trump sucks as a person? Tens of thousands of businesses close every year in this country. Do all of their owners "suck?"

One thing we know: you suck as a logician.