Zone1 Why I Finally Gave Up Cows Milk

[Woodznutz]

False, they are not always raised for beef. They are often raised for VEAL, which is extremely cruel. OR they are killed not long after birth, because they are useless to the Dairy industry. Which is treating God's creation like garbage. For example, in the UK, an average of 60,000 calves per year were killed shortly after being born, between 2016 and 2018. (source)

Watch this video:

Veal is meat.

I agree that there are better ways to manage the meat and dairy business, beginning with eating less meat, for the benefit of human health. Invoking religion is a non-starter as God's favored people have always been associated with animal agriculture, beginning with Abel.

 

[Woodznutz]

This guy is so sickly looking, maybe if he drank some milk.

 

[hjmick]

what could that be - what the heaves referred to as the sabbath is their creation, life and garden earth - to be keeped holy.

- completely ignored by the desert religions.

"...heaves..."?

 

[TNHarley]

but adult humans are the only species that will drink the milk of another species.

BS.
Kids drink milk from other species.
Dogs do.
Lambs do.
Foals do.
Pigs do.
Goats do.
You can spread your anti-human vegetarian bullshit without lying.

 

[Woodznutz]

"...heaves..."?

"heavens".

what could that be - what the heaves referred to as the sabbath is their creation, life and garden earth - to be keeped holy.

- completely ignored by the desert religions.

Adam was to "dress and keep" the garden of Eden but was cast out into a pretty 'unholy' environment.

 

[Woodznutz]

I love milk. My grandfather was part dairy farmer and sold milk of his cows. I think I'll go get a glass, right now. Raise a Glass to Wholesome Milk: Pure and Refreshing.

I had 'raw' milk once, chilled and right out of the 'bulk tank'. I couldn't believe how good it tasted. I drank several glasses.

 

[hjmick]

"heavens".

Adam was to "dress and keep" the garden of Eden but was cast out into a pretty 'unholy' environment.

My failures in Bible study are showing...

 

[Woodznutz]

My failures in Bible study are showing...

No worries, you can always catch up.

 

[buttercup]

Veal is meat.

I agree that there are better ways to manage the meat and dairy business, beginning with eating less meat, for the benefit of human health. Invoking religion is a non-starter as God's favored people have always been associated with animal agriculture, beginning with Abel.

You couldn't be more wrong on this topic if you tried. It's not about "religion." It's about doing what God called us to do from the very beginning, which 95% of the Church today has gotten not only wrong, but in many cases completely backwards.

And while I understand your POV, because I've been there myself, the answer is NOT exploiting animals in a "better" way. It's not about finding "nicer" ways to do something cruel and completely unnecessary. It's about simply honoring God's true intent and perfect will, which we KNOW does not include killing or exploiting animals, since we can clearly see His ideal, both in the pre-fall world and in the prophetic scriptures about the world to come. Everything in between is temporary and a mere blip in the grand scheme of things.

We've been through this before, numerous times. If I'm going by your track record from previous threads, then this conversation is probably pointless. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[buttercup]

I had 'raw' milk once, chilled and right out of the 'bulk tank'. I couldn't believe how good it tasted. I drank several glasses.

Proposed avatar for Woodnutz:

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[EvilCat Breath]

Human beings are omnivores. Healthy humans eat plants and animals. I love animals, I really do. I look at eating meat the same way I do the lion that takes down a terrified gazelle. If that gazelle weren't killed and eaten, what would happen to the lion?

 

[TNHarley]

It's about doing what God called us to do from the very beginning

-genesis 9 3
-His own "son" ate animals.

 

[buttercup]

Human beings are omnivores. Healthy humans eat plants and animals. I love animals, I really do. I look at eating meat the same way I do the lion that takes down a terrified gazelle. If that gazelle weren't killed and eaten, what would happen to the lion?

The difference between carnivorous animals like lions and human beings is that those animals in the wild have no choice. That's how they survive. We humans DO have a choice. There is actually ZERO nutritional need to eat animal flesh, or any animal products for that matter. And in fact going back a very long time, studies have shown that the more meat a person eats, the higher their risk is for heart disease and certain types of cancer.

From a Christian standpoint (which I'm assuming is what Carl had in mind when he posted this thread since it was put in the Religion section) predation was not God's idea, it was not part of God's design. It is an aspect of this fallen world.

In fact, contrary to what many people realize, according to the Bible, in the very beginning, ALL of creation ate a plantbased diet. (Genesis 1:29-30) And it will go back to that in the future, when Jesus returns. (Isaiah 11:6-9) where it says "the lion will eat straw like the ox."

 

[TNHarley]

The difference between carnivorous animals like lions and human beings is that those animals in the wild have no choice. That's how they survive. We humans DO have a choice. There is actually ZERO nutritional need to eat animal flesh, or any animal products for that matter. And in fact going back a very long time, studies have shown that the more meat a person eats, the higher their risk is for heart disease and certain types of cancer.

From a Christian standpoint (which I'm assuming is what Carl had in mind when he posted this thread since it was put in the Religion section) predation was not God's idea, it was not part of God's design. It is an aspect of this fallen world.

In fact, contrary to what many people realize, according to the Bible, in the very beginning, ALL of creation ate a plantbased diet. (Genesis 1:29-30) And it will go back to that in the future, when Jesus returns. (Isaiah 11:6-9) where it says "the lion will eat straw like the ox."

No human population is known to have survived on plants alone.
Failure to thrive is a big ordeal in the vegetarian/vegan community.
Lions cant survive on straw.

 

[Woodznutz]

Proposed avatar for Woodnutz:


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I've got more hair than that.

 

[Woodznutz]

You couldn't be more wrong on this topic if you tried. It's not about "religion." It's about doing what God called us to do from the very beginning, which 95% of the Church today has gotten not only wrong, but in many cases completely backwards.

And while I understand your POV, because I've been there myself, the answer is NOT exploiting animals in a "better" way. It's not about finding "nicer" ways to do something cruel and completely unnecessary. It's about simply honoring God's true intent and perfect will, which we KNOW does not include killing or exploiting animals, since we can clearly see His ideal, both in the pre-fall world and in the prophetic scriptures about the world to come. Everything in between is temporary and a mere blip in the grand scheme of things.

We've been through this before, numerous times. If I'm going by your track record from previous threads, then this conversation is probably pointless. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

God killed the first animal, in the Garden of Eden. It is likely that Adam and Eve ate it as it prefigured the Paschal lamb. Later God accepted Abel's sacrifice of a lamb but rejected the grain offering of Cain.

 

[buttercup]

-genesis 9 3
-His own "son" ate animals.

Since you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to know or understand the spiritual aspect of this topic. There are a few different interpretations of Genesis 9:3, but no matter how you slice it, the bottom line is: God allowing something to happen does not mean it's what God wants. A few verses before that He stated "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood." Sometimes God "gives us over" to our sinful desires, that doesn't mean that God approves of what He's giving us over to. But sometimes we need to learn things on our own, the hard way. What I focus on is God's perfect will, as opposed to God's permissive will. There's a HUGE difference.

The bible clearly states that God does not change. (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8) He is the same, yesterday, today and forever. So God did not "change his mind" in Genesis 9. His perfect will was, IS and always will be peace and harmony among all creation. No needless violence, no cruelty or exploitation. God states repeatedly throughout the Bible that what He wants from us is MERCY.

As for Jesus, there is only ONE scripture in the bible that says Jesus ate fish, but I personally don't believe He actually did. Some scholars believe that it was a purposeful mistranslation. Watch the documentary "Christspiracy".... It is excellent and it talks about all of these things we're talking about. I'm pretty sure you can watch it for free on christspiracy.com.

 

[White 6]

I had 'raw' milk once, chilled and right out of the 'bulk tank'. I couldn't believe how good it tasted. I drank several glasses.

The Amish (or Minorite, I'm not sure which) around here, sell milk at the Farmer's Market on Saturday morning in deposit returnable glass bottles, like th old days, when it was delivered to the back door. It is posturized, but has a much higher cream/butter fat content than what you can buy at the stores. It is absolutely fantastic, along with their chocolate milk, butter, cream and ice cream.

 

[Woodznutz]

Since you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to know or understand the spiritual aspect of this topic. There are a few different interpretations of Genesis 9:3, but no matter how you slice it, the bottom line is: God allowing something to happen does not mean it's what God wants. A few verses before that He stated "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood." Sometimes God "gives us over" to our sinful desires, that doesn't mean that God approves of what He's giving us over to. But sometimes we need to learn things on our own, the hard way. What I focus on is God's perfect will, as opposed to God's permissive will. There's a HUGE difference.

The bible clearly states that God does not change. (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8) He is the same, yesterday, today and forever. So God did not "change his mind" in Genesis 9. His perfect will was, IS and always will be peace and harmony among all creation. No needless violence, no cruelty or exploitation. God states repeatedly throughout the Bible that what He wants from us is MERCY.

As for Jesus, there is only ONE scripture in the bible that says Jesus ate fish, but I personally don't believe He actually did. Some scholars believe that it was a purposeful mistranslation. Watch the documentary "Christspiracy".... It is excellent and it talks about all of these things we're talking about. I'm pretty sure you can watch it for free on christspiracy.com.

Jesus ate the Passover (lamb) up until his death.

 

[Woodznutz]

Since you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to know or understand the spiritual aspect of this topic. There are a few different interpretations of Genesis 9:3, but no matter how you slice it, the bottom line is: God allowing something to happen does not mean it's what God wants. A few verses before that He stated "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood." Sometimes God "gives us over" to our sinful desires, that doesn't mean that God approves of what He's giving us over to. But sometimes we need to learn things on our own, the hard way. What I focus on is God's perfect will, as opposed to God's permissive will. There's a HUGE difference.

The bible clearly states that God does not change. (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8) He is the same, yesterday, today and forever. So God did not "change his mind" in Genesis 9. His perfect will was, IS and always will be peace and harmony among all creation. No needless violence, no cruelty or exploitation. God states repeatedly throughout the Bible that what He wants from us is MERCY.

As for Jesus, there is only ONE scripture in the bible that says Jesus ate fish, but I personally don't believe He actually did. Some scholars believe that it was a purposeful mistranslation. Watch the documentary "Christspiracy".... It is excellent and it talks about all of these things we're talking about. I'm pretty sure you can watch it for free on christspiracy.com.

There is no Biblical basis for your position.

Jesus called fishermen, helped them catch fish, and fed fish to the multitudes, yet you believe he was against eating fish?