Why I dont post here

[editec]

I dunno, Editec, it seems to me the definition of ethnocentric is no different than the definition of racism. And since anyone can become a Jew, I don't think it can be defined as racism.

No there's a difference. One can think one's culture is superior to all others, and that culture can include many races.

I do see that having one plot of land with different groups claiming the right of return is a recipe for disaster. But since the Jews were given the land by the international community, I think the Pals are just shit out of luck. Does that make it right? Perhaps not, but it is the way of the world.

Yeah, well that's why the problem continues, isn't it?

The Pals don't think they're shit out of luck, and they don't care what the international community thinks.

 

[Charles_Main]

These individuals are, by definition, the only moderates in this entire debate.

Bullshit, Moderates are the ones who support a 2 state solution.

People like you who want to dismantle Israel are indeed extremist. whether you choose to admit it or not.

 

[Truthmatters]

Do you think Israel or America are 100 percent innocent in the way we deal with Palistine or every other Arab country?

I tend to agree with Israel, but I also try to see things from the other side.

The fact that the Jewish lobbyist group in America is the second largest, bigger than the gun lobbiests, proves the USA is bias to Israel.

They set our foreign policy in the Middle East.

Liebermann shows bias.

But thank God Jewish Americans are even starting to doubt Bush strategy.

Imagine Europe put Greece in the grand canyon because they say it is or was their holy land. How would the surrounding states and occupied Utahians take that.

The Grand canyon is bordered by Arizona and Nevada.

 

[Truthmatters]

Do you think Israel or America are 100 percent innocent in the way we deal with Palistine or every other Arab country?

I tend to agree with Israel, but I also try to see things from the other side.

The fact that the Jewish lobbyist group in America is the second largest, bigger than the gun lobbiests, proves the USA is bias to Israel.

They set our foreign policy in the Middle East.

Liebermann shows bias.

But thank God Jewish Americans are even starting to doubt Bush strategy.

Imagine Europe put Greece in the grand canyon because they say it is or was their holy land. How would the surrounding states and occupied Utahians take that.

The Grand canyon is bordered by Arizona and Nevada.
Grand Canyon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ravi]

No there's a difference. One can think one's culture is superior to all others, and that culture can include many races.

Ah, I see it now.

 

[MasTequila]

I am part jewish, and a dual citizen of both the US and Israel. I refrain from posting on Israel related issues because people will just assume bias.

So your insight on the issues to yourself? That sounds selfish.

 

[Charles_Main]

The Grand canyon is bordered by Arizona and Nevada.

Not to mention that Jews never lived in the grand canyon, While they did live in the area of moderen day Isreal, did and have almost continuesly for 4000 years.

That is just a stupid comparison.

 

[José]

Editec

You remind me of Claus Stauffenberg, the german colonel executed after a failed assassination attempt against Hitler. The mistreatment of the jewish people was one of the reasons that led him to conspire against Hitler. The sad spectacle of european jews being herded into ghettos by his own country hurt Stauffenberg to no end.

Similarly, the fact that american military hardware is used to kill the palestinian people seems to be something that deeply offends your sense of morality.

So you seem to be in the good company of the German hero.

 

[José]

Delta

The difficulty you have to understand the exact meaning of official statements by palestinian leaders is due to the fact that you don’t know the so-called “PALESTINIAN PLAN OF PHASES”.

The essence of this plan is to establish any kind of provisional government in any part of Palestine and use this territory as a base for operations to continue their struggle.

The Oslo peace process was, in fact, an implementation of the palestinian plan of phases. Thanks to Oslo, the PLO could return to Palestine from its exile in Tunisia and establish the Palestinian Authority in exchange for a nominal, pseudo recognition of the state of Israel (without dropping the right of return).

This is the fundamental point that you misinterpret, Delta. When palestinian leaders talk about recognising Israel and establishing a palestinian government they are referring to a provisional government to continue their struggle and the “recognition” of Israel they talk about amounts to nothing, it’s only a verbal, empty recognition because the right of return is not dropped.

Charles Main, somewhat unconsciously, described the palestinian plan of phases more or less acurately in a previous post:

Now lets make that happen (two states). Then if the Palestinians really do want Israel too they can try to take it and we can all watch them lose what they just gained.

 

[José]

Here’s an interview with Arafat, Delta. He was referring to the status of Jerusalem because every palestinian leader knows the right of return cannot be adressed openly since the subject is tabboo in the West. (you don’t need to read the whole text just the words in red):

AMANPOUR: So, no, in other words?

ARAFAT: No doubt, I can't betray my people. I can't betray the Arabs. I can't betray the Christians. I can't betray the Moslems. And he has to respect all these items concerning the Christianity and the Islam.

ARAFAT: First of all, I respect what I had mentioned and promised my people, my nation, my religions, the Christianity and the Islam, and I am not going to betray them.

AMANPOUR: A lot has been made of Arab public opinion and, as you keep saying, I will not betray the people.

ARAFAT: Would you betray your people?

AMANPOUR: But...

ARAFAT: Would you betray your people?

AMANPOUR: I'm not in the same position you are.

ARAFAT: In your duty, in your position, are you ready to betray your people?

AMANPOUR: Well, then the question then is, the people want a future...

ARAFAT: You -- I am asking you clearly and obviously...

AMANPOUR: Yes.

ARAFAT: ... do you accept to betray your people?

CNN Transcript - Special Event: Arafat and Barak: The Quest for Peace - September 10, 2000

I know its extremely hard for a westener to understand a people who is subjected to a massive information blackout and manipulation by the western media. But believe me, buddy, Arafat said more in that interview than a thousand official statements you can find on the Internet.

“I can’t betray my people.”

TRANSLATION:

I DON’T HAVE ENOUGH AUTHORITY TO FORFEIT THE RIGHT OF MY PEOPLE TO LIVE IN WESTERN PALESTINE.

I WILL BE DELEGITIMISED IF I TRY TO DO SO.

A palestinian leader, even Arafat, who compromises the right of the palestinian people to live in their homeland is already a FORMER palestinian leader, totally delegitimised in the eyes of his people.

 

[José]

As long as you keep on focusing your attention on what Palestinian leaders say in English for foreign consumption and ignore what they say in arabic among themselves you’ll continue to misunderstand the whole Israeli/Palestinian conflict, Delta.

People who are unaware of the palestinian plan of phases are easily impressed by official statements like the ones you quoted.

I fully understand the tremendous psychological impact these official statements have on the mind of the laymen because many years ago I was a layman too.

And even today I’m not immune to making the same mistake: believing everything a given political leader says.

Show me an international conflict I know little or nothing about and I’ll probably do exactly the same thing.

 

[Shogun]

From the 1970 amendment to the Law of Return:


The Law of Return

An Asian converted to Judaism is a Jew.

yea.. keep telling yourself that. If you think a CHOW has as much relevancy in the Law of Return as a Cohen then you are clearly not interested in knowing the truth of the matter. Again, why do you think neither Jill or Chucky wants to admit that it's not their FAITH that makes them jewish?

 

[Shogun]

The Laws of Israel do not forbid it Shog, as the 12 Muslim members of the Knesset show us. Has it happened yet, not, can it Yes.

Has there been a Native American president of he US yet? NO, so what is the difference again? put that in your pipe and smoke it MR know it all!

the LAW OF RETURN sets up a racist criteria for packing the demographics with jews, chucky.. If you insist on trying to spin the point I make about the racist state standard and the motivation behind maintaining jewish control, despite democracy, i'll have to put you in the same corner as Ravi.

But, I assure you, WERE THERE A NATIVE CANDIDATE nothing in OUR government states that white people need to facilitate their ethnic dominance by importing more CAUCASIAN europeans.

Indeed, put that in YOUR hookah and smoke it, mr rationalized racism.

 

[Shogun]

Last time I checked the Talmud was not part of the Government of Israel.

So why do you Fault Israel for the Talmud, But not every Christian and Muslim Nation on earth for there own Extremists?

HA!

yea.. hebrew dogma has NO input to israeli law!

The Israeli Supreme Court
The Influence of Jewish Law

The Declaration of Independence promised to establish a state based on the social justice envisaged by the Hebrew prophets, and Jewish legal codes are often consulted by Supreme Court justices when crafting their decisions. The justices must also take into consideration international treaties to which Israel is a signatory, like the Geneva Conventions. Finally, the Supreme Court also keeps an eye on legal precedent in leading democracies such as the United States.
My Jewish Learning: The Israeli Supreme Court


Israel's Marriage Law
srael's Parliament has passed a law preventing Palestinians who marry Israelis from living in Israel. The move was denounced by human rights organisations as racist, undemocratic and discriminatory.

Under the new law, rushed through yesterday, Palestinians alone will be excluded from obtaining citizenship or residency. Anyone else who marries an Israeli will be entitled to Israeli citizenship. Now Israeli Arabs who marry Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza Strip will either have to move to the occupied territories, or live apart from their husband or wife. Their children will be affected too: from the age of 12 they will be denied citizenship or residency and forced to move out of Israel.
ZNet - Marriage Law


Israeli marriage law blocks citizenship for Palestinians
(08-01) 04:00 PDT Jerusalem -- The Israeli parliament voted on Thursday to block Palestinians who marry Israelis from becoming Israeli citizens or residents.

Supporters of the legislation called it a necessary bulwark against infiltration by terrorists. "We are in a state of war -- not with the English, or the Americans, or the Dutch, or the Slovaks -- we are at war with our neighbors, the Palestinians," Gideon Sa'ar, of the dominant Likud Party, said in debate before the vote. "It's a tragic reality."

Proponents also called the law a way to preserve Israel's Jewish majority.
Israeli marriage law blocks citizenship for Palestinians


UN blasts Israeli marriage law
A United Nations panel has urged Israel to repeal a new law forcing Palestinians who marry Israelis to live separate lives.

The Geneva-based Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination unanimously approved a resolution saying the Israeli law violated an international human rights treaty.

However the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva, accused the panel of bias.

On 31 July the Israeli parliament approved a law preventing Palestinians married to Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship or residency.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | UN blasts Israeli marriage law



EVIDENCE sure is antisemetic!

 

[Shogun]

Those that do almost certainly find something of value in the religion. Many of us Christians relate deeply to the Jewish heritage from which Christianity has evolved. But you are right that Jews do attract more than their fair share of suspicion, discrimination, and downright disrespect, and that is certainly evident in the more radical leftwingers on this board too.

And it underscores why there is a need for Israel. It is the one place on Earth where a Jew can be a Jew openly and freely without worrying about his/her own countrymen disrespecting him/her or taking anything away from him/her because s/he is a Jew.

Are you kidding me? WHERE ARE THE witch hunts digging out all the jews in America?


this is the kind of bullshit an Aryan could admire.

 

[Shogun]

I could not have said it better myself, and this is why I will never support a one state solution. Jews already have plenty of Countries they can live in and be the butt of jokes, and the target of hate, and suspicion from there fellow country men.

yea.. you are SOOO marginalized here in the US! It's almost as if this gov filters out your collective influence EVERYWHERE!




cry me a ******* river, dude. Racism stinks even if it comes from the ass of a jew.

 

[Shogun]

Bullshit, Moderates are the ones who support a 2 state solution.

People like you who want to dismantle Israel are indeed extremist. whether you choose to admit it or not.

wrong answer, bud.. MODERATES dont have a reason to favor either side. CLEARLY, you do and are no moderate.

Democracy may seem like a big scary jew hating beast to you but thats just because you know that it wont respect your RACIST standard.

 

[Ravi]

Poor Charles, stuck in the corner with rational Ravi.

 

[Shogun]

ignorant ravi is more like it.


Lets see you get ole CHUCK to admit that Chingtang Chow, a new faithful convert, is as much of a jew as Abraham Cohen, a rabid athiest.

 

[Charles_Main]

ignorant ravi is more like it.


Lets see you get ole CHUCK to admit that Chingtang Chow, a new faithful convert, is as much of a jew as Abraham Cohen, a rabid athiest.

In faith he is, by blood he clearly is not. Like I said I think the problem is the common use of JEW to decribe Both a religion and a race. The Race being Hebrews.