Why I dont post here

[Shogun]

Right of return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as I can tell, there is absolutely nothing that would keep a convert to Judaism from being considered a Jew. So this constant bitching that the Israelis are racist is bullshit.

Now, can someone please tell me what criteria determines membership in the Palestinian "race"?

you are so CUTE, ravikins...


and, just so you know, palis are ARABS. Lets see if you can follow along in SAT question form..


Israeli:JEWISH:alestinian:ARAB

follow the rabbit lil ravi-snukums...

Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ravi]

From the 1970 amendment to the Law of Return:

4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion."

The Law of Return

An Asian converted to Judaism is a Jew.

 

[Rhys]

You'd only have a case to make, Rhys, if indeed the only defining criteria for being a Jew was racial heritage. It isn't. So please move on.

How do Palestinians decide who is a Palestinian?

Palestinians are those born in Palestine and those descended from them but prevented by the Occupation Authority from living at home, obviously. Thus, as was the case in the Six Counties, the settlers - especially those not guilty of crimes against humanity - are also citizens. It is for this reason, amongst so many others, that a two-state solution can't possibly work: it emphasises the fact that the settlers are murderous thieves, whereas many of them in fact just inherit what was stolen and even oppose the sick nazi regime the US subsidises.

As far as I am concerned, a Jew is a member of a particular religion. There is no 'Jewish race' or any other 'race' - all that stuff is the merest drivel - so there can be no 'racial heritage'. There are lots of people formed in the culture based on that religion, as there are ex-chapel people in my own country, and I find both fascinating. You yourself are an example of a different 'Jewry', formed by Hitler, and imitating his squalid rant and his racist killings. YOU move on; ha'porth.

 

[Ravi]

Then why do you keep calling Jews racists? They do not limit membership into their religion based on race.

 

[dilloduck]

Then why do you keep calling Jews racists? They do not limit membership into their religion based on race.

The race does however discourage conversion to their religion and should you convert you will always known as a non-jew who converted.

from the Talmud

"Converts are as difficult for Israel as a blight!"

 

[Charles_Main]

Thats not the question I asked. Can you say the same about a MUSLIM PM of ISRAEL, mr dual citizen?

The Laws of Israel do not forbid it Shog, as the 12 Muslim members of the Knesset show us. Has it happened yet, not, can it Yes.

Has there been a Native American president of he US yet? NO, so what is the difference again? put that in your pipe and smoke it MR know it all!

 

[editec]

Right of return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks. I wasn't entire sure what the wording was.

Jew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah yes, the question of who is a "real" Jew. Let's debate that one for the next six thousand years, shall we?

As far as I can tell, there is absolutely nothing that would keep a convert to Judaism from being considered a Jew. So this constant bitching that the Israelis are racist is bullshit.

Yes, it is. It's ethnocentric, but not racist.

Now, can someone please tell me what criteria determines membership in the Palestinian "race"?

I can propose a workable definition, if you're interested.

Anyone who are either a current or former resident of what was called formerly Palestine (in 1948), the children or grandchildren of a former or current resident of what was formerly known as Palestine, the spouse of a same, or the spouse of a child or grandchild of same.

No, I am not trying to be a smart ass

But the wording used for the Jewish right of return law is just so beautifully crafted that there's really no sense in my trying to improve on it.

Note how both "rights of return" philosophies end up exacerbating the problems that Isreal/palestine is facing today? They don't solve anything they actually make the problem worse.

What a mess!


Thank you for nothing, Prime Minister Authur Balfour

 

[jillian]

The race does however discourage conversion to their religion and should you convert you will always known as a non-jew who converted.

from the Talmud

Halakha forbids reminding a convert that he or she was once not a Jew and hence little distinction is made in Judaism between "Jews by birth" and "Jews by choice".

Conversion to Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Musta missed that since it couldn't be used to bash Jews.

 

[dilloduck]

Conversion to Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Musta missed that since it couldn't be used to bash Jews.

They wouldnt do it to the converts face, naturally. Why does the talmud consider convert a "blight".

 

[Charles_Main]

They wouldnt do it to the converts face, naturally. Why does the talmud consider convert a "blight".

Last time I checked the Talmud was not part of the Government of Israel.

So why do you Fault Israel for the Talmud, But not every Christian and Muslim Nation on earth for there own Extremists?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

The plan [Arab Peace Initiative of March 2008] consists of a proposal to end the Arab-Israeli conflict. It offers Israel normalization of relations and comprehensive peace agreements with Arab countries in exchange for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from all the Occupied Territories including the Golan Heights, and the recognition of "an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital," as well as a "just solution" for the Palestinian refugees.[1]

Hamas' spokesman Ismail Abu Shanab said on the same day that his organisation would accept the initiative:

"That would be satisfactory for all Palestinian military groups to stop and build our state, to be busy in our own affairs, and have good neighborhood with Israelis."[2]

Arab Peace Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arab Peace Inititative

 

[Foxfyre]

Also picking one phrase out of the Talmud to hold up as evidence of racism is as dishonest as plucking one verse out of Biblical context to hold up as evidence of the evils of Christianity. Jews are not hostile to converts and, unless one is caught claiming to convert but has ulterior and unworthy motives for doing so, converts are welcomed with open arms into Judaism.

Converting to Judaism

 

[Charles_Main]

Also picking one phrase out of the Talmud to hold up as evidence of racism is as dishonest as plucking one verse out of Biblical context to hold up as evidence of the evils of Christianity. Jews are not hostile to converts and, unless one is caught claiming to convert but has ulterior and unworthy motives for doing so, converts are welcomed with open arms into Judaism.

Converting to Judaism

With the Way Jews are treated on this Board, and in the world in General by many people. I have to wonder why anyone would want to convert to be one??

 

[Foxfyre]

With the Way Jews are treated on this Board, and in the world in General by many people. I have to wonder why anyone would want to convert to be one??

Those that do almost certainly find something of value in the religion. Many of us Christians relate deeply to the Jewish heritage from which Christianity has evolved. But you are right that Jews do attract more than their fair share of suspicion, discrimination, and downright disrespect, and that is certainly evident in the more radical leftwingers on this board too.

And it underscores why there is a need for Israel. It is the one place on Earth where a Jew can be a Jew openly and freely without worrying about his/her own countrymen disrespecting him/her or taking anything away from him/her because s/he is a Jew.

 

[Charles_Main]

And it underscores why there is a need for Israel. It is the one place on Earth where a Jew can be a Jew openly and freely without worrying about his/her own countrymen disrespecting him/her or taking anything away from him/her because s/he is a Jew.

I could not have said it better myself, and this is why I will never support a one state solution. Jews already have plenty of Countries they can live in and be the butt of jokes, and the target of hate, and suspicion from there fellow country men.

 

[Ravi]

I dunno, Editec, it seems to me the definition of ethnocentric is no different than the definition of racism. And since anyone can become a Jew, I don't think it can be defined as racism.

I do see that having one plot of land with different groups claiming the right of return is a recipe for disaster. But since the Jews were given the land by the international community, I think the Pals are just shit out of luck. Does that make it right? Perhaps not, but it is the way of the world.

 

[José]

I said it before and I’ll say it again:

People who support the peaceful dismantlement of ethnocratic states and their replacement by democratic states ruled by majority or with limited federal autonomy under the supervision of the international community are no more “radicals” than an american civil rights activist in the 60’s or anti apartheid activists in the 80’s.

These individuals are, by definition, the only moderates in this entire debate.

On the other hand, people who rationalize, sugar-coat and make up excuses for racial dictatorships that keep the “unofficial” ethnicity crammed into ethnic enclaves fit the definition of braindead super patriotic american clowns like a glove.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Ravi
I do see that having one plot of land with different groups claiming the right of return is a recipe for disaster. But since the Jews were given the land by the international community, I think the Pals are just shit out of luck. Does that make it right? Perhaps not, but it is the way of the world.

The way of the world...

This is how most people in the US and the rest of the western world see the treatment of palestinians.

No democracy, no desegregation, no official appologies, no compensations...

Just a group of human beings whose rights and national aspirations can be disregarded to serve a greater good...

One of the great ironies of the 20th century:

The victims of one of the most ferocious supremacist states in History imposing another supremacist state on a people who never harmed them in any way.

On 9/11, the dehumanization of the palestinian people came back to haunt the dehumanizer like a boomerang that comes full circle and hits its thrower in the face.

Small wonder the dehumanized, the usual victims of Apaches and F-16s, celebrated and danced in the streets for hours on end.

 

[Rhys]

Then why do you keep calling Jews racists? They do not limit membership into their religion based on race.

As you very well know, Polly, I have never called Jews racist, and it is very evident that Goebbels was one of your ancestors, whatever his alleged 'race'. Zionists are racists, not least because they take their beliefs from German nationalism, up to and including Hitler.

 

[editec]

But you are right that Jews do attract more than their fair share of suspicion, discrimination, and downright disrespect, and that is certainly evident in the more radical leftwingers on this board too.

You the skinheads an crypto NAZIs haunting this place are left wingers?!

Wait.. do you also think that Bush is a liberal, too?