Why I don't believe in God

[Mudda]

You have nothing. Give up.

Translation: Please shut up since I can't refute your argument and I don't know anything else to do but repeat that you've got nothing!

You may feel smug all you want, but the fact is, you haven't convinced ANYONE of your bs. NOT ONE PERSON.

I'm not here to convince people... that's YOUR gig! I am here to set your falsehoods straight and school your ignorant ass. I love destroying your fantasies... it's kind of a hobby for me.

You haven't proven jack-shit yet, fool. You'd be more use picking bananas.

 

[Boss]

Wow... A couple of racist slurs to cap things off!

Well done!

 

[BreezeWood]

Wow... A couple of racist slurs to cap things off!

Well done!

.

Bossy: I'm not here to convince people... that's YOUR gig! I am here to set your falsehoods straight and school your ignorant ass. I love destroying your fantasies... it's kind of a hobby for me.

let the innocent be set free ...

.

 

[hobelim]

All you're doing now is spewing hate and vile because I destroyed your argument. You weren't "brainwashed" ...you're still alive... what the **** happened there? Religion hasn't killed you yet?

Apparently you are a moron.

No, I am not brainwashed, but its not for lack of trying, and no I am not dead yet, but I have known suffering and persecution ever since grade school directly related to my open rejection of religion and the nonsense religious actors and lying frauds preach.

Do you think these children are in church because of some inherent spirituality or are they in church because they have no choice and are being brainwashed into acting spiritual out of fear?



Do you not think that many of these children who do not have the courage or will to resist will remain affected and enslaved by this mental and emotional abuse and pretend to be devoted church members for the rest of their lives?

 

[Boss]

All you're doing now is spewing hate and vile because I destroyed your argument. You weren't "brainwashed" ...you're still alive... what the **** happened there? Religion hasn't killed you yet?

Apparently you are a moron.

No, I am not brainwashed, but its not for lack of trying, and no I am not dead yet, but I have known suffering and persecution ever since grade school directly related to my open rejection of religion and the nonsense religious actors and lying frauds preach.

Do you think these children are in church because of some inherent spirituality or are they in church because they have no choice and are being brainwashed into acting spiritual out of fear?



Do you not think that many of these children who do not have the courage or will to resist will remain affected and enslaved by this mental and emotional abuse and pretend to be devoted church members for the rest of their lives?

Here is what you said in #1352 above:
Religion exploits and manipulates those who profess to have spiritual faith and demonizes persecutes and kills anyone who rejects it.

This was a response to my post in #1351:
You can't be manipulated, exploited or caused to fear something you do not believe in. Religion exploits and manipulates those who have spiritual faith.

So it seems we're both in agreement that religion can only exploit or manipulate you if you're a believer in the religion. What you said that I took exception to was that "religion demonizes, persecutes and kills anyone who rejects it." That's when I asked you how you had managed to avoid death and persecution... which you simply didn't answer. Instead, you chose to jump back on the argument about manipulation which we both agreed on.

You tacitly admitted that you had not succumb to persecution or death but it wasn't for lack of trying. So I am interested in knowing about these attempts on your life and public persecution you've endured on behalf of religion. If you have a YouTube video to show me of that, then you will have proven your claim.

Now, let's dispatch the claims of "demonizing" because... well, you have to believe in demons to be demonized. I assume you don't believe in demons since you don't believe in God. So nobody can demonize you. The only persecution I ever see happening in these threads is your persecution of Christians and Jews. And the only religion that is killing people today is radical Islam, whom you defend like they are your BFF.

You have what I like to call a "cotton candy argument" ...spun into something nice and big but quickly dissolves when ingested. You can't be demonized, you haven't had your life threatened and you're the one doing all the persecuting.

 

[Mudda]

Wow... A couple of racist slurs to cap things off!

Well done!

You'd probably lose your dumb argument to a banana as well.

 

[hobelim]

Here is what you said in #1352 above:
Religion exploits and manipulates those who profess to have spiritual faith and demonizes persecutes and kills anyone who rejects it.

This was a response to my post in #1351:
You can't be manipulated, exploited or caused to fear something you do not believe in. Religion exploits and manipulates those who have spiritual faith.

So it seems we're both in agreement that religion can only exploit or manipulate you if you're a believer in the religion.

No, not necessarily. By professing devotion to one religion or another certain people claim moral authority and usurp lofty positions in society where they can easily exploit and manipulate believers and unbelievers alike by influencing laws and customs to reflect their perverse views, reward believers and punish unbelievers..

In this very country it is currently perfectly legal for any religion to screw up the brains of innocent children and collect money from their parents for the privilege tax free.


Did you watch the video? Were those children demonstrating spirituality or were they pretending because they were being abused?

That's when I asked you how you had managed to avoid death and persecution... which you simply didn't answer. Instead, you chose to jump back on the argument about manipulation which we both agreed on.

You tacitly admitted that you had not succumb to persecution or death but it wasn't for lack of trying. So I am interested in knowing about these attempts on your life and public persecution you've endured on behalf of religion. If you have a YouTube video to show me of that, then you will have proven your claim.

This is not about me. Have you never heard what happens to people who challenge the authority of any religion? read a history book or a newspaper.

Now, let's dispatch the claims of "demonizing" because... well, you have to believe in demons to be demonized. I assume you don't believe in demons since you don't believe in God. So nobody can demonize you. The only persecution I ever see happening in these threads is your persecution of Christians and Jews. And the only religion that is killing people today is radical Islam, whom you defend like they are your BFF.

You have what I like to call a "cotton candy argument" ...spun into something nice and big but quickly dissolves when ingested. You can't be demonized, you haven't had your life threatened and you're the one doing all the persecuting.

People who have no beliefs in demons are often demonized by religious people especially for not believing.

I'm sorry I didn't realize this before.....

You are just an asshole.

 

[Boss]

Here is what you said in #1352 above:
Religion exploits and manipulates those who profess to have spiritual faith and demonizes persecutes and kills anyone who rejects it.

This was a response to my post in #1351:
You can't be manipulated, exploited or caused to fear something you do not believe in. Religion exploits and manipulates those who have spiritual faith.

So it seems we're both in agreement that religion can only exploit or manipulate you if you're a believer in the religion.

No, not necessarily. By professing devotion to one religion or another certain people claim moral authority and usurp lofty positions in society where they can easily exploit and manipulate believers and unbelievers alike by influencing laws and customs to reflect their perverse views, reward believers and punish unbelievers..

In this very country it is currently perfectly legal for any religion to screw up the brains of innocent children and collect money from their parents for the privilege tax free.


Did you watch the video? Were those children demonstrating spirituality or were they pretending because they were being abused?

That's when I asked you how you had managed to avoid death and persecution... which you simply didn't answer. Instead, you chose to jump back on the argument about manipulation which we both agreed on.

You tacitly admitted that you had not succumb to persecution or death but it wasn't for lack of trying. So I am interested in knowing about these attempts on your life and public persecution you've endured on behalf of religion. If you have a YouTube video to show me of that, then you will have proven your claim.

This is not about me. Have you never heard what happens to people who challenge the authority of any religion? read a history book or a newspaper.

Now, let's dispatch the claims of "demonizing" because... well, you have to believe in demons to be demonized. I assume you don't believe in demons since you don't believe in God. So nobody can demonize you. The only persecution I ever see happening in these threads is your persecution of Christians and Jews. And the only religion that is killing people today is radical Islam, whom you defend like they are your BFF.

You have what I like to call a "cotton candy argument" ...spun into something nice and big but quickly dissolves when ingested. You can't be demonized, you haven't had your life threatened and you're the one doing all the persecuting.

People who have no beliefs in demons are often demonized by religious people especially for not believing.

I'm sorry I didn't realize this before.....

You are just an asshole.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't think you could be 'demonized' any more than you could be 'baptized'. It shouldn't matter to you or bother you what religious people think or say about you. It doesn't bother me. They can't 'demonize' me and make it mean anything to me. Are you getting hurt feelings because they 'demonize' you while you hurl every slur and denigration you can at them? I would think a big bad Atheist such as yourself would pull up your big girl panties and get over it... wear it as a badge of honor that you were important enough to demonize.

No, not necessarily. By professing devotion to one religion or another certain people claim moral authority and usurp lofty positions in society where they can easily exploit and manipulate believers and unbelievers alike by influencing laws and customs to reflect their perverse views, reward believers and punish unbelievers..

Whoa there Fonzie, you've jumped the shark here. Exploitation and manipulation cannot be tied to our laws and customs or else the only resolve is total lawless chaos and anarchy. I'm sorry but we cannot live in a society where religion is banned because those have never worked. The whole reason we came here and forged a nation was to escape religious persecution and be able to live in a free society where we could worship as we please.

We don't live in a kingdom or monarchy. Religious people don't just up and appoint themselves to "lofty positions in society" and start imposing their will on everyone. We function in a democratic or republican way by allowing communities, states and cities to collectively appoint these positions. Sometimes it may include a process of voting.

Now... It SOUNDS like what your problem REALLY is... is that too many people who are religious are getting voted into these positions of power where they can influence our laws. But, you see, in a FREE society, that's how things work. We all have an equal voice, yours is not more important than mine. So we can't just silence the religious and forbid them from holding public office. And we can't dictate that they only make decisions contrary to their religious beliefs. How would you feel if you were elected to power and told you can only forge laws or implement your power based on the commands of God (which you don't believe in)? That wouldn't seem right, would it? But that's what you seem to want from the religious who are in power... for them to abandon their core beliefs, disregard them and rule according to what you believe.

I'm sorry that you find yourself living in a society where you're in the vast overwhelming minority, but... that's life. You could be living in a society that saws off your head or stones you to death for not observing religious rituals. Those types of societies generally emerge from people who have your thought process... silence those who don't believe as you do.

 

[Boss]

Do you think these children are in church because of some inherent spirituality or are they in church because they have no choice and are being brainwashed into acting spiritual out of fear?

I have no idea. I can't speak for them and neither can you. I've already submitted that people can and do misinterpret their spiritual connection... it's what gave us religions in the first place. I would say that if people weren't inherently spiritual creatures, events as depicted in your video simply wouldn't be possible. Exploitation through spiritual beliefs isn't something I need to see proof of, I've already admitted this happens frequently. It doesn't mean there is no tangible benefit of religion or that everything religion does is bad.

 

[Grendelyn]

Your concept of God is flawed. The God of the Bible doesn't promise utopia, but he does promise that if yo follow him it will be worth it.
For the most powerful Being in the universe to restrain his power, proves what a loving God He actually is. I don't think God is a micro manager.
You talk like death is the end of it all. Life on the other side is just like here, only without the body of flesh and bones. One of the purposes of a body of flesh and bones is to experience pain, and suffering, and yes even death.
I believe in God. I don't think I'll know Him anymore when I meet him than I know Him now.
I look for God in life. Give it a try, maybe there's something to this God thing

One of the purposes of a body of flesh and bones is to experience pain, and suffering, and yes even death.

Your proof, please, that one of the purposes of a body of flesh and bones is to experience pain and suffering, and even death. Thank you. ~ Susan

 

[ChrisL]

Lol. I keep asking you what is this "thing" that you (not me - LOL) is supposedly "connecting" with?? Explain please.

Oh, now you are saying there is a "spiritual creator??"

Spirituality exists in your own head but nowhere else. Get used to it. No god or "spiritual creator" is going to help you. You are on your own.

I know, you keep coming to this thread like a moth to a light bulb, don't you? All for the purpose of somehow convincing me that what I "believe in" isn't real. When you tire of mocking me and ridiculing my views, you denigrate me and call me dumb. And it drives you nuts that this isn't working to persuade me, I still "believe in" the same things. So you just keep repeating the cycle over and over in hopes that one day it will have the desired effect.

Yes, I believe we have a spiritual Creator... and you believe what? That physical nature created itself? The universe is... (ahem) Eternal? What is your explanation for why we exist?

Here's the problem, I am the kind of guy who doesn't really have a lot of faith in anything. I have a hard time with faith that I am reassured of, much less, blind faith. For me, things have to make sense and follow logic. That's why I can't comprehend physical nature being able to create itself... it doesn't make sense. Some other force had to create the physical or it can't exist.

I spent a long time in the wilderness, not knowing what I believed. Not feeling a connection to anything, especially not anything spiritual. I can't tell you a day or hour that I changed my mind because I think it's always been inside of me, I just wasn't aware. I went through a series of life-changing events where all my hopes and dreams were shattered and my life had to start completely over. While grasping to cope with this, I read several books about the power of positive thinking, meditation, that kind of thing... nothing in particular... no "enlightenment moment" where it all made sense... just random reading and studying on how to make myself better, how to heal... It was through this that I began to realize a common thread. Faith in the power of something greater than yourself.

I began, on my own with no instruction... to devote a little time each day to meditation. I usually do this in the morning with coffee and in the late evening when I lay down. There are no other distractions, I turn off the computer or TV... just me alone with my thoughts. I clear my mind of everything I am thinking about, all my assorted problems and things I need to get done... I focus on my person... who I am... who I want to be... I think about things helping me and hurting me with the objectives I have for myself. And this is where it get's interesting because I can't really explain what happens to someone who hasn't experienced it. Sometimes, ten minutes, twenty minutes... maybe even 30... I begin to feel a connection with an energy that is not physical. It is emanating around me like a whirlwind but it's not felt in a physical sense.

The more I practiced this meditation ritual, the more I began to feel comfortable with this energy and the more I began to explore utilizing it to my advantage. I started to notice a difference almost immediately in the way I handled things. My decision-making process, my train of thought, my attitude in general were all improved. Things began to go well for me. Problems I thought were insurmountable became nothing at all. Most incredibly, I no longer felt hungry inside... I didn't have that feeling that something was missing.

Naturally, after a while I began to take all of this for granted and I kind of slacked off on the meditation thing for a while... well, guess what? I could tell a difference. Things started to go to shit again for me and that's when I think the switch went on in my head... I realized that my spiritual connection was important to me. So now... when I encounter goofballs who proclaim "it's all made up nonsense" ...I just laugh at that. You may as well be trying to convince me my mother doesn't exist.

A thread like this? Lol. Do I have to remind you of the topic of the thread and the thread title again? Goodness!!

As to the rest of your post, none of this is evidence of anything except your feelings.

 

[Tilly]

Lol. I keep asking you what is this "thing" that you (not me - LOL) is supposedly "connecting" with?? Explain please.

Oh, now you are saying there is a "spiritual creator??"

Spirituality exists in your own head but nowhere else. Get used to it. No god or "spiritual creator" is going to help you. You are on your own.

I know, you keep coming to this thread like a moth to a light bulb, don't you? All for the purpose of somehow convincing me that what I "believe in" isn't real. When you tire of mocking me and ridiculing my views, you denigrate me and call me dumb. And it drives you nuts that this isn't working to persuade me, I still "believe in" the same things. So you just keep repeating the cycle over and over in hopes that one day it will have the desired effect.

Yes, I believe we have a spiritual Creator... and you believe what? That physical nature created itself? The universe is... (ahem) Eternal? What is your explanation for why we exist?

Here's the problem, I am the kind of guy who doesn't really have a lot of faith in anything. I have a hard time with faith that I am reassured of, much less, blind faith. For me, things have to make sense and follow logic. That's why I can't comprehend physical nature being able to create itself... it doesn't make sense. Some other force had to create the physical or it can't exist.

I spent a long time in the wilderness, not knowing what I believed. Not feeling a connection to anything, especially not anything spiritual. I can't tell you a day or hour that I changed my mind because I think it's always been inside of me, I just wasn't aware. I went through a series of life-changing events where all my hopes and dreams were shattered and my life had to start completely over. While grasping to cope with this, I read several books about the power of positive thinking, meditation, that kind of thing... nothing in particular... no "enlightenment moment" where it all made sense... just random reading and studying on how to make myself better, how to heal... It was through this that I began to realize a common thread. Faith in the power of something greater than yourself.

I began, on my own with no instruction... to devote a little time each day to meditation. I usually do this in the morning with coffee and in the late evening when I lay down. There are no other distractions, I turn off the computer or TV... just me alone with my thoughts. I clear my mind of everything I am thinking about, all my assorted problems and things I need to get done... I focus on my person... who I am... who I want to be... I think about things helping me and hurting me with the objectives I have for myself. And this is where it get's interesting because I can't really explain what happens to someone who hasn't experienced it. Sometimes, ten minutes, twenty minutes... maybe even 30... I begin to feel a connection with an energy that is not physical. It is emanating around me like a whirlwind but it's not felt in a physical sense.

The more I practiced this meditation ritual, the more I began to feel comfortable with this energy and the more I began to explore utilizing it to my advantage. I started to notice a difference almost immediately in the way I handled things. My decision-making process, my train of thought, my attitude in general were all improved. Things began to go well for me. Problems I thought were insurmountable became nothing at all. Most incredibly, I no longer felt hungry inside... I didn't have that feeling that something was missing.

Naturally, after a while I began to take all of this for granted and I kind of slacked off on the meditation thing for a while... well, guess what? I could tell a difference. Things started to go to shit again for me and that's when I think the switch went on in my head... I realized that my spiritual connection was important to me. So now... when I encounter goofballs who proclaim "it's all made up nonsense" ...I just laugh at that. You may as well be trying to convince me my mother doesn't exist.

What a beautiful and thoughtful post. Thank you for taking the time to write it and to share your experiences.

 

[hobelim]

Here is what you said in #1352 above:
Religion exploits and manipulates those who profess to have spiritual faith and demonizes persecutes and kills anyone who rejects it.

This was a response to my post in #1351:
You can't be manipulated, exploited or caused to fear something you do not believe in. Religion exploits and manipulates those who have spiritual faith.

So it seems we're both in agreement that religion can only exploit or manipulate you if you're a believer in the religion.

No, not necessarily. By professing devotion to one religion or another certain people claim moral authority and usurp lofty positions in society where they can easily exploit and manipulate believers and unbelievers alike by influencing laws and customs to reflect their perverse views, reward believers and punish unbelievers..

In this very country it is currently perfectly legal for any religion to screw up the brains of innocent children and collect money from their parents for the privilege tax free.


Did you watch the video? Were those children demonstrating spirituality or were they pretending because they were being abused?

That's when I asked you how you had managed to avoid death and persecution... which you simply didn't answer. Instead, you chose to jump back on the argument about manipulation which we both agreed on.

You tacitly admitted that you had not succumb to persecution or death but it wasn't for lack of trying. So I am interested in knowing about these attempts on your life and public persecution you've endured on behalf of religion. If you have a YouTube video to show me of that, then you will have proven your claim.

This is not about me. Have you never heard what happens to people who challenge the authority of any religion? read a history book or a newspaper.

Now, let's dispatch the claims of "demonizing" because... well, you have to believe in demons to be demonized. I assume you don't believe in demons since you don't believe in God. So nobody can demonize you. The only persecution I ever see happening in these threads is your persecution of Christians and Jews. And the only religion that is killing people today is radical Islam, whom you defend like they are your BFF.

You have what I like to call a "cotton candy argument" ...spun into something nice and big but quickly dissolves when ingested. You can't be demonized, you haven't had your life threatened and you're the one doing all the persecuting.

People who have no beliefs in demons are often demonized by religious people especially for not believing.

I'm sorry I didn't realize this before.....

You are just an asshole.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't think you could be 'demonized' any more than you could be 'baptized'. It shouldn't matter to you or bother you what religious people think or say about you. It doesn't bother me. They can't 'demonize' me and make it mean anything to me. Are you getting hurt feelings because they 'demonize' you while you hurl every slur and denigration you can at them? I would think a big bad Atheist such as yourself would pull up your big girl panties and get over it... wear it as a badge of honor that you were important enough to demonize.

No, not necessarily. By professing devotion to one religion or another certain people claim moral authority and usurp lofty positions in society where they can easily exploit and manipulate believers and unbelievers alike by influencing laws and customs to reflect their perverse views, reward believers and punish unbelievers..

Whoa there Fonzie, you've jumped the shark here. Exploitation and manipulation cannot be tied to our laws and customs or else the only resolve is total lawless chaos and anarchy. I'm sorry but we cannot live in a society where religion is banned because those have never worked. The whole reason we came here and forged a nation was to escape religious persecution and be able to live in a free society where we could worship as we please.

We don't live in a kingdom or monarchy. Religious people don't just up and appoint themselves to "lofty positions in society" and start imposing their will on everyone. We function in a democratic or republican way by allowing communities, states and cities to collectively appoint these positions. Sometimes it may include a process of voting.

Now... It SOUNDS like what your problem REALLY is... is that too many people who are religious are getting voted into these positions of power where they can influence our laws. But, you see, in a FREE society, that's how things work. We all have an equal voice, yours is not more important than mine. So we can't just silence the religious and forbid them from holding public office. And we can't dictate that they only make decisions contrary to their religious beliefs. How would you feel if you were elected to power and told you can only forge laws or implement your power based on the commands of God (which you don't believe in)? That wouldn't seem right, would it? But that's what you seem to want from the religious who are in power... for them to abandon their core beliefs, disregard them and rule according to what you believe.

I'm sorry that you find yourself living in a society where you're in the vast overwhelming minority, but... that's life. You could be living in a society that saws off your head or stones you to death for not observing religious rituals. Those types of societies generally emerge from people who have your thought process... silence those who don't believe as you do.

Ahem. pull yourself together. I never said anything about banning religion or making everyone believe as I do.

I believe in the freedom of religion, but I also believe in equal treatment under the law. If it is a crime for everyone else to mentally and emotionally abuse children then the religious indoctrination of children by charlatans as can be seen in the video posted should be prosecuted as a crime tantamount to murder. Because this abuse is currently protected by law it insures that the vast majority of people exposed to this type of indoctrination are fucked in the head for life and inevitably end up in positions of influence and authority without a having a grip on reality or the ability to think rationally enough to distinguish between right and wrong, true or false, or good and evil. Many are legally and democratically elected by legions of unthinking people just like them. Why is any wonder that things are all so fucked up? Because people are spiritual beings or because they have been crippled by trauma? And what do the religious people want to do to fix things? Deport Mexicans? Criminalize pregnant women and homosexuals? Build more prisons? Damn.

If people want to throw their minds in the garbage as informed adults they should have every right to do so. Like pornography religion should be restricted learning and for the exact same reasons.

You might not realize this but by repeatedly saying that no one can be demonized unless they believe in demons you have made a complete jackass out of yourself..You are connected to something greater than yourself my ass. May I bring you some clothes, your majesty?

BTW I am not an atheist, sherlock.

 

[Boss]

I believe in the freedom of religion, but I also believe in equal treatment under the law. If it is a crime for everyone else to mentally and emotionally abuse children then the religious indoctrination of children by charlatans as can be seen in the video posted should be prosecuted as a crime.

We have to establish some very clear and unambiguous standards for what is considered "abuse" in terms of the law. I don't see anything in the video that denotes "abuse" as it's currently defined, emotionally, physically or otherwise. You may not agree with what is happening there but it's not your children, and it's not your business. It's amazing that you don't seem to like the idea of religious people indoctrinating your kids but you think it's okay to take their kids away and indoctrinate them with your beliefs. Isn't that being a little bit of a hypocrite?

Because this abuse is currently protected by law it insures that the vast majority of people exposed to this type of indoctrination are fucked in the head for life and inevitably end up in positions of influence and authority without a having a grip on reality or the ability to think rationally enough to distinguish between right and wrong, true or false, or good and evil.

Again, you are under some kind of damned delusion that people get religion then go out there and "usurp power" from someone. I don't get that. What are they doing, using mind control or something?

What is "fucked in the head" and what qualifies YOU to know? Just because you see a video of people being "moved by the spirit" or whatever, that means they are mentally unstable and have no grip on reality? And then... they have the amazing capacity to go out there and just usurp all the power positions left and right and no one can do a thing about that! Amazing! Hell... you got me wanting to flop around in the floor... I mean, if I can land some powerful position where I can dictate how you live and what you do... is that all it takes?

You might not realize this but by repeatedly saying that no one can be demonized unless they believe in demons you have made a complete jackass out of yourself..

BTW I am not an atheist, sherlock.

Oh well... if you're NOT an Atheist, I guess you CAN be demonized! If that makes you feel uncomfortable maybe you shouldn't be so demonic in your behavior? Just a thought.

Many are legally and democratically elected by legions of unthinking people just like them.

Yeah... funny how open republican democracies work. We tend to like electing people we can relate to, who share our same values. That's really sticking in your craw, isn't it? You'd love for this to be your own personal little dictatorship so you could tell everyone how to live and what to believe in. Let's just program everyone to think and act like hobelim! ...In less than 6 months, you'd be conducting rituals like the preacher in the video... little kids falling in the floor at your waving hand!

 

[Dhara]

Hmm,

Is it ok to all of you that some believe in God and some do not?

Why is it anyone thinks they need to convince someone there is or isn't a God?

The OP seems to want to argue that God doesn't exist because there is suffering in the world. Suffering is inherent in existence.

God has nothing to do with it. My opinion, of course.

 

[ChrisL]

I believe in the freedom of religion, but I also believe in equal treatment under the law. If it is a crime for everyone else to mentally and emotionally abuse children then the religious indoctrination of children by charlatans as can be seen in the video posted should be prosecuted as a crime.

We have to establish some very clear and unambiguous standards for what is considered "abuse" in terms of the law. I don't see anything in the video that denotes "abuse" as it's currently defined, emotionally, physically or otherwise. You may not agree with what is happening there but it's not your children, and it's not your business. It's amazing that you don't seem to like the idea of religious people indoctrinating your kids but you think it's okay to take their kids away and indoctrinate them with your beliefs. Isn't that being a little bit of a hypocrite?

Because this abuse is currently protected by law it insures that the vast majority of people exposed to this type of indoctrination are fucked in the head for life and inevitably end up in positions of influence and authority without a having a grip on reality or the ability to think rationally enough to distinguish between right and wrong, true or false, or good and evil.

Again, you are under some kind of damned delusion that people get religion then go out there and "usurp power" from someone. I don't get that. What are they doing, using mind control or something?

What is "fucked in the head" and what qualifies YOU to know? Just because you see a video of people being "moved by the spirit" or whatever, that means they are mentally unstable and have no grip on reality? And then... they have the amazing capacity to go out there and just usurp all the power positions left and right and no one can do a thing about that! Amazing! Hell... you got me wanting to flop around in the floor... I mean, if I can land some powerful position where I can dictate how you live and what you do... is that all it takes?

You might not realize this but by repeatedly saying that no one can be demonized unless they believe in demons you have made a complete jackass out of yourself..

BTW I am not an atheist, sherlock.

Oh well... if you're NOT an Atheist, I guess you CAN be demonized! If that makes you feel uncomfortable maybe you shouldn't be so demonic in your behavior? Just a thought.

Many are legally and democratically elected by legions of unthinking people just like them.

Yeah... funny how open republican democracies work. We tend to like electing people we can relate to, who share our same values. That's really sticking in your craw, isn't it? You'd love for this to be your own personal little dictatorship so you could tell everyone how to live and what to believe in. Let's just program everyone to think and act like hobelim! ...In less than 6 months, you'd be conducting rituals like the preacher in the video... little kids falling in the floor at your waving hand!

I think he is saying that a whole lot of people are brainwashed since the time they are . . .well infants in some cases to "fear" God. You don't realize how difficult and frightening it is to go against that type of brainwashing and to actually have the audacity to question "belief" systems, like religious beliefs. IOW, a lot of people are kind of "forced" into it. They just don't realize it.

 

[emilynghiem]

At least 4 dead, 14 injured in Maryland crash

"At least four people were killed and 14 others injured after a church van crashed into a pickup truck and caught fire in Hyattsville, Md. on Sunday, according to local authorities."

What's the point of a god who never prevents this sort of thing. Church vans crash all the time.

Dear Delta4Embassy
(1) Do you still believe in the laws of science and good health
even though there are diseases that attack and kill if we fail to maintain good health.
Isn't it natural science that if we don't solve problems they lead to bad consequences?
And with the case of car accidents, the more we improve safety compliance and the more we reduce
dangers and risks, then we see fewer and fewer accidents (such as preventing texting, drinking or sleep deprivation mixed with driving).

Cause and effect.
As long as you believe that there is a connection there,
that's the equivalent of believing in "laws of nature" at work.
So that's the secular equivalent of how "God's laws" work.
You just may call it something else and are still studying how these laws work before you decide
how much we as humans do control, what we can focus on and improve on, and what is left to forces outside our control.

If you look up laws of karma, cause and effect, restorative justice vs. retributive justice.
If you look up the laws of attraction, of abundance mentality vs. scarcity/victim mentality.
You can see the difference it makes if you believe truth and justice prevail and drive all things.
So that is what it means to believe in God and Jesus, love of Truth/Wisdom
and love of Justice and Peace for all humanity, or perfect Compassion and Charity for all.

(2) the other reason I find people don't believe in these things ^
is they don't fully forgive other groups they want to dissociate from
or they fear certain wrongs in the world they fear cannot be controlled or solved.
It is the Fear or Unforgiveness we hold onto that prevents our faith in truth and justice.

It's not a matter of believing in a personal God, because some minds are not designed to see the world that way.

it is a matter of FORGIVING our differences and things that go wrong in the world
so that we CAN SEE we are talking about the same process as ONE humanity.

When you lose your sense of connection to other people and groups you see as "outside or against the truth" then this causes you to disconnect and lose a sense of connection as one with all humanity. So you don't feel you have the "same thing other people call God" when you lose this sense you and all others are all one in the same boat.

If you FEAR that "other group or person" is AGAINST you, this hurts your sense
of justice that we can all be pushing for the same goal.

this disjoint separation is caused by fear, unforgiveness and ill will.
This separation is overcome where love is greater than fear,
truth is greater than ignorance and fear of unknown,
forgiveness is greater than unforgiveness,
faith in good will is greater than fear of ill will,
faith in peace is greater than fear of war,
faith in justice is greater than fear of injustice.

If you are run more by fear than by love,
that is the same thing as not believing in God.
Not to worry, as many believers and Christians are still learning
to let go, forgive, receive greater faith and believe.

We humans are all skeptics and are clouded by fear.
We are all learning to let go of that fear, and receive universal truth and love that is what God means.

 

[Boss]

I think he is saying that a whole lot of people are brainwashed since the time they are . . .well infants in some cases to "fear" God. You don't realize how difficult and frightening it is to go against that type of brainwashing and to actually have the audacity to question "belief" systems, like religious beliefs. IOW, a lot of people are kind of "forced" into it. They just don't realize it.

And I think a whole lot of people are brainwashed since childhood that God doesn't matter or doesn't really exist. It's a two-way street. But it's not my business to raise your kids and not your business to raise mine. If you want people to leave your kids alone you need to leave their kids alone. Everyone's world doesn't revolve around your opinion.

We see the video of kids being indoctrinated by religion but where are the videos of the parents teaching their kid there's no such thing as God? If one is "child abuse" so is the other, in my opinion. Setting aside the extreme examples as depicted in the video, (because I've never personally known any kids raised that way...) I have known kids raised in strong spiritual families and kids raised in atheistic families... there is a night and day difference in the people they become. From the level of respect they have for others to the respect they have for themselves. Their trustworthiness, their dependability, their general attitude toward life... just not comparable.

I'm not saying one is always bad and the other is always good, but generally speaking, the results speak for themselves. You think these little degenerate hellions out there shitting on the cop cars were raised in a spiritual family? Or were they probably raised by some immoral ***** who went around mocking God and making fun of religious people?

 

[Onyx]

At least 4 dead, 14 injured in Maryland crash

"At least four people were killed and 14 others injured after a church van crashed into a pickup truck and caught fire in Hyattsville, Md. on Sunday, according to local authorities."

What's the point of a god who never prevents this sort of thing. Church vans crash all the time.

There is a difference between believing in a god and believing in a perfect god. I believe in God, but I do not think he/it is anywhere close to perfection. That way of thinking is quite uncommon among my fellow Christian pawns, but so be it.

 

[ChrisL]

I think he is saying that a whole lot of people are brainwashed since the time they are . . .well infants in some cases to "fear" God. You don't realize how difficult and frightening it is to go against that type of brainwashing and to actually have the audacity to question "belief" systems, like religious beliefs. IOW, a lot of people are kind of "forced" into it. They just don't realize it.

And I think a whole lot of people are brainwashed since childhood that God doesn't matter or doesn't really exist. It's a two-way street. But it's not my business to raise your kids and not your business to raise mine. If you want people to leave your kids alone you need to leave their kids alone. Everyone's world doesn't revolve around your opinion.

We see the video of kids being indoctrinated by religion but where are the videos of the parents teaching their kid there's no such thing as God? If one is "child abuse" so is the other, in my opinion. Setting aside the extreme examples as depicted in the video, (because I've never personally known any kids raised that way...) I have known kids raised in strong spiritual families and kids raised in atheistic families... there is a night and day difference in the people they become. From the level of respect they have for others to the respect they have for themselves. Their trustworthiness, their dependability, their general attitude toward life... just not comparable.

I'm not saying one is always bad and the other is always good, but generally speaking, the results speak for themselves. You think these little degenerate hellions out there shitting on the cop cars were raised in a spiritual family? Or were they probably raised by some immoral ***** who went around mocking God and making fun of religious people?

If I didn't know better, I would think the good "spiritual" man was trying to insult me. Look friend, you keep saying how "spiritual" you are and other such things. It doesn't seem to make you anymore "serene" though.