Why doesn't meat help meat eaters be healthy?

[buttercup]

We are not in the pre-fall world or in the world to come. We are living on a planet where death reigns supreme, and because we ourselves are fated to die, we are part of it, along with the animals.

We've been over this too, numerous times. As Christians, we are not supposed to embrace this fallen world, we are supposed to live according to GOD's perfect will, and want and pray for God's perfect will on earth as it is in heaven.

Your position is flatly unbiblical and unchristian.

 

[Anathema]

Your position is flatly unbiblical and unchristian

Considering that we’re not all Christian, that’s not necessarily a problem for many/most of us.

 

[Woodznutz]

What he doesn't want to understand is that as people abandon their "need" for a heavy meat based diet these animals will be bred for meat less and less. There WILL eventually be no "meat factories"

The "problem" solves itself.

And, as a professing Christian his responsibility before God is to understand GOD'S will on a matter and not seek his own will. It's ultimately on him where he goes with the knowledge he was given. He can try to fool others, but GOD is not mocked. He knows.

To paraphrase Proverbs....

When you see the innocent being led to their death, do not say, 'i did not see' for there is One in heaven who sees everything, and HE KNOWS

You are making false assumptions about my diet. Average meat consumption here is over 250 lbs./person/year. I consume less than 50 lbs. per year. I don't eat pork. So, by that metric the raising, killing, and eating of beef and chickens would be reduced by 80 percent, and, no swine would be killed at all. I am also very healthy, which would reduce the number of animals used in medical research by perhaps 99 percent? Most of my animal-based diet is eggs and dairy products, which contrary to the horrid facts presented by Buttercup, aren't necessary for the production of those foods.

As an added bonus my diet would even help the climate i.e. more woodlands, pasture and grasslands.

 

[Woodznutz]

We've been over this too, numerous times. As Christians, we are not supposed to embrace this fallen world, we are supposed to live according to GOD's perfect will, and want and pray for God's perfect will on earth as it is in heaven.

Your position is flatly unbiblical and unchristian.

Only the return of Jesus Christ will bring God's will fully to the earth. And, as I stated before if God was displeased with me eating meat why has he so blessed me?

You are presenting veganism as a moral exercise as well as a tortured diet. I have better exercises to do in my life. It is very self-serving, which isn't bad, but one has to serve others as well. I serve myself with the best nutrition available for my lifestyle which includes animal products.

 

[buttercup]

I am familiar with 'turning animals out to pasture' to live out their lives in peace and safety, after they have performed their service to mankind. But to allow them to breed and perpetuate for the sole purpose of virtue signaling is cynical beyond the pale.

Where to begin with this! I mean listen to yourself… You act as if other species have no right to exist, unless they are only here for OUR own selfish reasons. That is the most anthropocentric, selfish, ignorant mindset. THAT is what is beyond the pale.

Having love and respect for other species is not virtue signaling, it sounds like your own conscience is bothering you so you feel the need to attack those of us who are saying things that provoke your conscience. (actually that would not be us, we're just stating facts, if anything its the HS) Either that or you're just trolling.

 

[buttercup]

Only the return of Jesus Christ will bring God's will to the earth. And, as I stated before if God was displeased with me eating meat why has he so blessed me?

That is so blatantly incorrect I'm amazed any Christian would state that. By that logic, Christians should just throw their arms up in the air and live just as the world lives. Let's all go back to drinking, partying, doing all the things everyone else in the world does and be no different! lol! Why aim for God's perfect will if only the return of Jesus will bring God's will to the earth?

Don't get me wrong. Obviously only the return of Jesus will bring MAJOR global changes, like all animals going back to being herbivorous and no more war, etc (Isaiah 65:25, Isaiah 2:4)

But in the meantime, the bible is clear that we as Christians should be DIFFERENT than the world (Rom 12:2) and have an eternal perspective (Col 3:2, etc) and let me repeat Jesus' words:

"May your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as in heaven."

 

[Woodznutz]

Where to begin with this! I mean listen to yourself… You act as if other species have no right to exist, unless they are only here for OUR own selfish reasons. That is the most anthropocentric, selfish, ignorant mindset. THAT is what is beyond the pale.

Having love and respect for other species is not virtue signaling, it sounds like your own conscience is bothering you so you feel the need to attack those of us who are saying things that provoke your conscience. (actually that would not be us, we're just stating facts, if anything its the HS) Either that or you're just trolling.

Yours is the offbeat position. The reality is that we are going to raise, kill, and eat many more critters than we now do regardless of increasing numbers of those who experiment with veganism. You have expressed your ideal, which is unrealistic. I have presented my ideal which is realistic but will never see the light of day. But, it doesn't bother me as I can't do anything meaningful about it, except to satisfy myself in this regard.

 

[Woodznutz]

That is so blatantly incorrect I'm amazed any Christian would state that. By that logic, Christians should just throw their arms up in the air and live just as the world lives. Let's all go back to drinking, partying, doing all the things everyone else in the world does and be no different! lol! Why aim for God's perfect will if only the return of Jesus will bring God's will to the earth?

Don't get me wrong. Obviously only the return of Jesus will bring MAJOR global changes, like all animals going back to being herbivorous and no more war, etc (Isaiah 65:25, Isaiah 2:4)

But in the meantime, the bible is clear that we as Christians should be DIFFERENT than the world (Rom 12:2) and have an eternal perspective (Col 3:2, etc) and let me repeat Jesus' words:

"May your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as in heaven."

Let's just focus on that for a moment. The Christian is led by the Spirit to make changes in and over their lifetime. The Spirit has led me to make many great changes so far. However, abstaining from animal food products isn't one of them. If that day comes, I will join you as a non-meat eater.

 

[Blues Man]

False pregnancy in cows is an unnatural disorder that has to be treated by a veterinarian.

How do you think dairy cows produce milk all the time?

Animals only naturally produce milk for short periods of time

 

[Blues Man]

I am amused, not offended. I hope I'm not offending you by being amused.

You cannot offend me

 

[Blues Man]

Our limited hunting, fishing, and trapping seasons are intended to protect those species from overharvesting. Other species are vigorously protected from exploitation, especially those that are 'endangered'.

How about the feral animals I mentioned? Are they now considered 'wild', to be left alone?

Those so called protections really do much since they are virtually impossible to enforce.

 

[buttercup]

Considering that we’re not all Christian, that’s not necessarily a problem for many/most of us.

I know, that was specifically to Woodnutz.

 

[Blues Man]

Statements like yours destroys your credibility even as a vegan. Without labratory produced B12 supplements there could be no veganism. B12 is the magic pill that make veganism possible.

What Every Vegan Should Know About Vitamin B12

The critical importance of vitamin B12.

www.vegansociety.com

Not true

There are sources of B12 that vegans can get that are not supplements.

Vitamin B12 for Vegans & Vegetarians: Best Natural Sources | Fresh N Lean

Struggling to find natural sources of vitamin B12 for vegans? Confused about which B12 supplement will best suit your needs? Look no further!

www.freshnlean.com

Interestingly, a study in 2000 found that vitamin B12 from fortified foods was actually linked with a better B12 status than B12 intake from animal products.

 

[Blues Man]

I'm more concerned with human life and death than I am for animals. In fact the death of animals has contributed greatly to the welfare of mankind, from food to medicines.

But you don't seem to care that humans who work in slaughterhouses suffer from a variety of mental illnesses at a far higher percentage than the average population

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/15248380211030243

The Psychological Impact of Slaughterhouse Employment: A Systematic Literature Review

The role of a slaughterhouse worker (SHW) involves the authorized killing of living beings, yet there is limited understanding of the consequences this behavior has on their well-being. The purpose of this systematic review is to collate and evaluate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For Slaughterhouse Workers, Physical Injuries Are Only the Beginning ✦ OnLabor

Even as more Americans than ever report reducing their meat consumption, the US remains the highest per-capita consumer of meat worldwide. To meet this demand, nearly 9.5 billion animals are slaughtered in the US annually. The burden of carrying out these killings falls almost exclusively on the...

onlabor.org

 

[Blues Man]

I’ve eaten a meat heavy diet my entire life. Beef especially but chicken and pork as well. not a lot of fish, but some. There were always starches and vegetables as well, but the meat was generally the focus of the meal.

My great-uncle used to raise beef cattle and my family got half a cow, butchered every year. I’ve had many forms of game animal as well (duck, goose, quail, venison, moose, rabbit, best, rattlesnake, alligator, etc…)

Other than being slightly overweight my medical issues are related to my genes, not my diet. I’ve known many vegetarians and vegans in my life. None of them have been terribly happy people. They’ve all required considerable numbers of additives and polls to maintain their “health”. They’re free to live thst way so long as they don’t try to take my meat away from me. That would be a problem.

Then you didn't know too many vegans.

The only thing vegans need to supplement is B 12 everything else can be had with a proper diet of whole foods not processed crap

 

[Blues Man]

Zoos and sanctuaries are artificial environments. Realistically, farm animals would become virtually extinct if not raised for food.

Like i said before there are literally millions of species of animals that we don't eat living on the planet.

So there is no reason to think every single species of animal we eat will go extinct if they are not eaten anymore.

 

[Blues Man]

Actually, God gave us dominion over the animals. So, they were put here to serve our needs.

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I don't worship your god so what you say about it means nothing to me.

I don't need some god telling me what's cruel and what isn't since I can figure that out myself.

 

[Anathema]

Then you didn't know too many vegans.

The only thing vegans need to supplement is B 12 everything else can be had with a proper diet of whole foods not processed crap

I know a handful, which is more than I would like to. Thankfully the one truly militant one I know has finally stopped inviting my wife and me to dinner. We did that once and it was an epic disaster.

 

[Woodznutz]

But you don't seem to care that humans who work in slaughterhouses suffer from a variety of mental illnesses at a far higher percentage than the average population

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/15248380211030243

The Psychological Impact of Slaughterhouse Employment: A Systematic Literature Review

The role of a slaughterhouse worker (SHW) involves the authorized killing of living beings, yet there is limited understanding of the consequences this behavior has on their well-being. The purpose of this systematic review is to collate and evaluate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For Slaughterhouse Workers, Physical Injuries Are Only the Beginning ✦ OnLabor

Even as more Americans than ever report reducing their meat consumption, the US remains the highest per-capita consumer of meat worldwide. To meet this demand, nearly 9.5 billion animals are slaughtered in the US annually. The burden of carrying out these killings falls almost exclusively on the...

onlabor.org

True that it can affect one's mind. That's why workers on the kill line are only allowed to work a limited number of days. At Oscar Meyers it was 2 weeks then time off for a while.

I have killed many animals from wild game to chickens to beef and have suffered no ill effects mentally or physically. Of course, I don't do it for a living. I also worked in a small-town slaughterhouse and didn't witness any ill effects in those who killed animals regularly.

 

[Woodznutz]

I don't worship your god so what you say about it means nothing to me.

I don't need some god telling me what's cruel and what isn't since I can figure that out myself.

No, you can't. All you can do is form a subjective opinion.

Where I live people attach little meaning to the traffic laws, especially pedestrians and bicyclists, so there's that.

God has a larger plan than most, including many Christians, can wrap their heads around.