Why doesn't meat help meat eaters be healthy?

[buttercup]

Artificially created B12 supplements are the foundation of veganism. Without it there is no veganism.

^ You win the award for most ridiculous, laughable statement of the week. Good job!

 

[Woodznutz]

Did you miss my post from yesterday about eggs and dairy?

Or are you OK with treating God's beloved creation as mere garbage? Again, the egg industry mass kills baby male chicks by the millions, by shredding them alive, as if they were garbage....


View attachment 824096



And dairy is arguably even worse than the meat industry. Dairy is absolutely horrible, in SO many ways.

Your view of animal agriculture is either based on ignorance or a willful blindness to the reality. I'm guessing it's the latter.

Didn't I say it could be better?

 

[Woodznutz]

^ You win the award for most ridiculous, laughable statement of the week. Good job!

Statements like yours destroys your credibility even as a vegan. Without labratory produced B12 supplements there could be no veganism. B12 is the magic pill that make veganism possible.

What Every Vegan Should Know About Vitamin B12

The critical importance of vitamin B12.

www.vegansociety.com

 

[buttercup]

you are saying that we should not eat meat because animals have personalities and emotions.

There is no denying that animals are sentient. There is no denying they have individual personalities, just like dogs or cats. And of course they can suffer and feel pain, that is observably true and it would be absurd to deny it.

I'm curious, would you think it's OK if Americans decided to start dog factory farms? Where dogs were deprived of everything natural, kept in cages so small they can't move, had their teeth or tails removed without painkillers, then sent to slaughter to have their throats slit and hung upside-down to die a painful death? Would you be OK if that happened daily to dogs? Honest question, a yes or no answer will be fine. Thanks.

And please don't say "They do that in China." My question was, would you be OK if that was done here in the US, and would you participate in it?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

 

[buttercup]

Didn't I say it could be better?

Yes, you did. I was glad to hear that. But then you said that any changes for the better should be the consumer eating less meat and "eating more eggs and dairy products." That's why I brought up my post from yesterday.

I think the problem is how most people think about animals in general. They aren't our slaves, or put here just to satisfy our own selfish desires.

I used to think differently, until I saw the horrible reality and realized....there's no need to partake in any of it at all. Instead of trying to do it in a "nicer" way.... I think people need to have a paradigm shift in how they think about animals in general... for so many reasons. But it's too early in the day to be writing long posts, so.... maybe I'll get back to this later, but I've already explained my position many times here and on other threads.

 

[Woodznutz]

I'm more concerned with human life and death than I am for animals. In fact the death of animals has contributed greatly to the welfare of mankind, from food to medicines.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yes, you did. I was glad to hear that. But then you said that any changes for the better should be the consumer eating less meat and "eating more eggs and dairy products." That's why I brought up my post from yesterday.

I think the problem is how most people think about animals in general. They aren't our slaves, or put here just to satisfy our own selfish desires.

I used to think differently, until I saw the horrible reality and realized....there's no need to partake in any of it at all. Instead of trying to do it in a "nicer" way.... I think people need to have a paradigm shift in how they think about animals in general... for so many reasons. But it's too early in the day to be writing long posts, so.... maybe I'll get back to this later, but I've already explained my position many times here and on other threads.

You present a good argument and there might be those whose mind is changed because of it.

 

[Woodznutz]

I think the problem is how most people think about animals in general. They aren't our slaves, or put here just to satisfy our own selfish desires.

Actually, God gave us dominion over the animals. So, they were put here to serve our needs.

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

[buttercup]

Here in Wisconsin the wolves and bears would make short work of released farm animals.

We went over this before! Why do you repeat things that have already been addressed and refuted?

Obviously we're not going to send all the farm animals out into the wild, to fend for themselves. Again, have you never heard of animal sanctuaries? There are a growing number of animal sanctuaries for farm animals, and seriously, one of my favorite things in the world is animal sanctuaries for farm animals. It is BEAUTIFUL thing to see animals who were once treated in the most diabolical ways now living life the way God INTENDED them to live, in peace and harmony with humans and other animals.

Speaking of rescued animals, look at this little pig, she's really no different than a dog, see for yourself... (turn the sound on)

 

[Woodznutz]

Every vegetarian I know looks pale and sickly.

My daughter often goes on meatless fad diets but gets so weak she has to return to eating some meat.

 

[buttercup]

Actually, God gave us dominion over the animals.

Yes, dominion in the image of GOD, and our current "dominion" is NOTHING at all that even remotely resembles God.

God is LOVE, mercy, justice, KINDNESS, peace! The way it was in the pre-fall world. Which is the exact opposite of how we as mankind have exercised dominion, what we have done is exploitation, cruelty, abuse, and needless violence and bloodshed.

 

[Woodznutz]

We went over this before! Why do you repeat things that have already been addressed and refuted?

Obviously we're not going to send all the farm animals out into the wild, to fend for themselves. Again, have you never heard of animal sanctuaries? There are a growing number of animal sanctuaries for farm animals, and seriously, one of my favorite things in the world is animal sanctuaries for farm animals. It is BEAUTIFUL thing to see animals who were once treated in the most diabolical ways now living life the way God INTENDED them to live, in peace and harmony with humans and other animals.

Speaking of rescued animals, look at this little pig, she's really no different than a dog, see for yourself... (turn the sound on)

Zoos and sanctuaries are artificial environments. Realistically, farm animals would become virtually extinct if not raised for food.

 

[buttercup]

Actually, God gave us dominion over the animals. So, they were put here to serve our needs.

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

NO they were not put here just to serve our "needs"!

Wow, now I see why you have the position you have. It is all based on a fundamentally wrong idea, no wonder you think the way you do!

And if you think "dominion" automatically means license to kill and eat animals, think again. The VERY NEXT VERSE after the dominion verse completely nullifies that idea!

Here, watch this, it's a short video:

 

[buttercup]

Zoos and sanctuaries are artificial environments. Realistically, farm animals would become virtually extinct if not raised for food.

I wasn't talking about zoos!

I agree with you that zoos are artificial, and many of them are horrible for animals. I am NOT for zoos.

Farm animal sanctuaries are an ENTIRELY different thing!

But I see that you are speaking from sincere ignorance.

I will try to share some videos on farm animals sanctuaries for you, as time permits.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

What he doesn't want to understand is that as people abandon their "need" for a heavy meat based diet these animals will be bred for meat less and less. There WILL eventually be no "meat factories"

The "problem" solves itself.

And, as a professing Christian his responsibility before God is to understand GOD'S will on a matter and not seek his own will. It's ultimately on him where he goes with the knowledge he was given. He can try to fool others, but GOD is not mocked. He knows.

To paraphrase Proverbs....

When you see the innocent being led to their death, do not say, 'i did not see' for there is One in heaven who sees everything, and HE KNOWS

 

[Woodznutz]

Yes, dominion in the image of GOD, and our current "dominion" is NOTHING at all that even remotely resembles God.

God is LOVE, mercy, justice, KINDNESS, peace! The way it was in the pre-fall world. Which is the exact opposite of how we as mankind have exercised dominion, what we have done is exploitation, cruelty, abuse, and needless violence and bloodshed.

We are not in the pre-fall world or in the world to come. We are living on a planet where death reigns supreme, and because we ourselves are fated to die, we are part of it, along with the animals.

 

[Anathema]

I’ve eaten a meat heavy diet my entire life. Beef especially but chicken and pork as well. not a lot of fish, but some. There were always starches and vegetables as well, but the meat was generally the focus of the meal.

My great-uncle used to raise beef cattle and my family got half a cow, butchered every year. I’ve had many forms of game animal as well (duck, goose, quail, venison, moose, rabbit, best, rattlesnake, alligator, etc…)

Other than being slightly overweight my medical issues are related to my genes, not my diet. I’ve known many vegetarians and vegans in my life. None of them have been terribly happy people. They’ve all required considerable numbers of additives and polls to maintain their “health”. They’re free to live thst way so long as they don’t try to take my meat away from me. That would be a problem.

 

[Woodznutz]

I wasn't talking about zoos!

I agree with you that zoos are artificial, and many of them are horrible for animals. I am NOT for zoos.

Farm animal sanctuaries are an ENTIRELY different thing!

But I see that you are speaking from sincere ignorance.

I will try to share some videos on farm animals sanctuaries for you, as time permits.

I am familiar with 'turning animals out to pasture' to live out their lives in peace and safety, after they have performed their service to mankind. But to allow them to breed and perpetuate for the sole purpose of virtue signaling is cynical beyond the pale.

 

[Woodznutz]

I’ve eaten a meat heavy diet my entire life. Beef especially but chicken and pork as well. not a lot of fish, but some. There were always starches and vegetables as well, but the meat was generally the focus of the meal.

My great-uncle used to raise beef cattle and my family got half a cow, butchered every year. I’ve had many forms of game animal as well (duck, goose, quail, venison, moose, rabbit, best, rattlesnake, alligator, etc…)

Other than being slightly overweight my medical issues are related to my genes, not my diet. I’ve known many vegetarians and vegans in my life. None of them have been terribly happy people. They’ve all required considerable numbers of additives and polls to maintain their “health”. They’re free to live thst way so long as they don’t try to take my meat away from me. That would be a problem.

I have found that such people are looking for a 'moral purpose' that will make them feel better about themselves. It is said that "People who take up causes have lost their own."