Why do you support Ukraine?

[PeterPilot]

Christians don't invade other countries. They don't commit atrocities. Putin is not a Christian.

Putin is evil. He has made it clear that he wants to rebuild the old Soviet Union. That would mean a general war between NATO and Russia. Finland and Sweden are concerned enough to wat to join NATO. They have preferred to remain neutral.

Most of that money has been in military gear not cash. You are a liar. You are aware of the fact that Republicans are blocking attempts to fix what caused the crash in East Palestine. The Republican senator is begging his Republican colleagues to support strengthening regulations. It is Republicans who want to cut safety net programs.

There is absolutely no evidence of Ukrainian corruption.

Just because Putin agrees with you on social issues, it is okay for him to jail or kill his political opponents. To commit atrocities in Ukraine. Why don't you move to Russia if you think it is so great. You are a animal and a brute.

The only Nazis are Trump and his supporters like you. There is no proof of that. This is a necessary war. If we back down, Russia will take Ukraine and keep going. China will be emboldened to invade Taiwan. You are the one who wants to start WWIII.

You must have missed class when the topic was that part of history called The Crusades.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Interesting comparison. Let’s look at the comparison for a moment. And we can expand upon it.

For Iraq the United States spent months earning and telling not only Iraq but the world we would invade. We made our case publicly. We didn’t pretend we wouldn’t go in and announce it after the fact. For months we told everyone we would invade.

Russia denied it. They said the Western Nations were lying when they warned that Russia was getting ready to invade. Russia swore it wasn’t going to invade right up to an hour after the invasion had begun. Then Russia said they were conducting a limited military action for special security needs.

Russia lied about their intentions.

Let’s expand upon this. What shocked the world on December 7 1941 was the attack prior to the declaration of war. We know the history. The declaration was delayed by the Embassy. If there was ever any intention to deliver it before the attack. Thirty minutes isn’t much warning after all.

The World was outraged. That just wasn’t how things were done.

Today the World is angry at Russia. And Russia like Japan in 1941 has done it to themselves. Russia decided to lie. They lied. And they denounced those who warned it was coming.

Now which course of action is more honorable? America was wrong about the existence of WMD’s. The evidence seemed to indicate it. But they were wrong. However even the most America Hating shill for Russia would have to admit that America told the truth about their intentions. While Russia lied and then kept lying through to today about why they invaded.

So your comparison is interesting as it makes Russia look even worse.

An interesting look at things, but the bottom line is Iraq was invaded, and upwards of 1 million Iraqis have died after the invasion by the USA in 2003. They would’ve been alive if not for the war and the subsequent occupation and insurgency issues.

We both know that the Russian side says that the treaties were violated by Ukraine or nato countries …so they had to therefore go in and invade Ukraine or do what they call a security mission.



You may make the argument that a lot of Russians, and Ukrainians would be alive if it wasn’t for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but we are at where we are at. My posts are not in support of Russia or Ukraine, but simply showing the fact that this is about not throwing stones in glass houses when it comes to America’s position on the war.

And Iraq had a much different culture compared to America. I’m sure there were some similarities but let’s just be honest with ourselves…It’s clear that there are more similarities between Russians and Ukrainians because of the religious similarities, the language similarities the fact that of course Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union for 50 years.

 

[Lesh]

An interesting look at things, but the bottom line is Iraq was invaded, and upwards of 1 million Iraqis have died after the invasion by the USA in 2003. They would’ve been alive if not for the war and the subsequent occupation and insurgency issues.

We both know that the Russian side says that the treaties were violated by Ukraine or nato countries …so they had to therefore go in and invade Ukraine or do what they call a security mission.



You may make the argument that a lot of Russians, and Ukrainians would be alive if it wasn’t for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but we are at where we are at. My posts are not in support of Russia or Ukraine, but simply showing the fact that this is about not throwing stones in glass houses when it comes to America’s position on the war.

And Iraq had a much different culture compared to America. I’m sure there were some similarities but let’s just be honest with ourselves…It’s clear that there are more similarities between Russians and Ukrainians because of the religious similarities, the language similarities the fact that of course Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union for 50 years.

Because we fucked up in Iraq...that is no reason that we should fuck up by allowing Russia to invade sovereign nations

 

[marvin martian]

Because we fucked up in Iraq...that is no reason that we should fuck up by allowing Russia to invade sovereign nations

But your fellow Soviets want that very badly...

 

[SavannahMann]

An interesting look at things, but the bottom line is Iraq was invaded, and upwards of 1 million Iraqis have died after the invasion by the USA in 2003. They would’ve been alive if not for the war and the subsequent occupation and insurgency issues.

We both know that the Russian side says that the treaties were violated by Ukraine or nato countries …so they had to therefore go in and invade Ukraine or do what they call a security mission.



You may make the argument that a lot of Russians, and Ukrainians would be alive if it wasn’t for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but we are at where we are at. My posts are not in support of Russia or Ukraine, but simply showing the fact that this is about not throwing stones in glass houses when it comes to America’s position on the war.

And Iraq had a much different culture compared to America. I’m sure there were some similarities but let’s just be honest with ourselves…It’s clear that there are more similarities between Russians and Ukrainians because of the religious similarities, the language similarities the fact that of course Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union for 50 years.

The principle is called Just War. It is a derivative of the principles put forth by St. Augustine.

Just war theory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is an ethical checklist of sorts to insure your actions are necessary and honorable.

One part of being honorable is honesty. Let’s say you and I are neighbors and we have an argument. After a short while we decide to talk and at the conclusion of the discussion we shake and declare everything is good.

We have disagreed over where the property line is. We discuss it and agree to let a survey determine the truth. We go to an outside party.

Afterwards I call the cops and swear you are dealing drugs and there are underage kids in there. My actions are unjust. My actions are dishonorable. I am dishonest in this scenario.

Such things end up in the news as a bad neighbor. Most everyone would agree that in that scenario I was an asshole. Any excuses I offer later would be ignored or laughed at.

Russia is not conducting a Just War. America was wrong. There were no WMD’s in Iraq. The evidence could be interpreted as Iraq having them. But they did not. And America suffered a black eye for being wrong. However America did set out to demonstrate that the war would be just.

Russia by contrast set out to lie. And they lied. They lied the day before the actual invasion. They announced it after the reports from Ukraine hit the news wires.

Russia’s actions were so dishonorable that even Switzerland who has spent centuries being Neutral in every conflict took sides against Russia. Think about that for just a moment.

There is no comparison between the American invasion of Iraq and Russia in Ukraine. None. And any effort to do so is at best disingenuous. At worst another flat out lie.

And finally. The difference between a lie and a mistake. Let’s say you are being questioned by Police. They ask if you saw Bob Wednesday Evening. You think and say yes. You saw him that evening. It turns out that it was Tuesday you saw him. You confused the days. You made a mistake. Mistakes are human. We all make them. If on the other hand you know you didn’t see him on Wednesday but you say you did. That is a lie. When you knowingly present false information.

Russia lied. America was mistaken.

 

[Stann]

There’s many reasons why Americans and frankly people all over the world oppose funding Ukraine. One of them is because of Christianity …our Christian Brothers in Russia. The idea of funding Ukraine to kill Russian Christians. I’m not gonna be a part of that.

American exceptionalism. The idea that we can invade countries and use drones whenever we want in countries all around the world. That America can do military operations in allied countries like Pakistan whenever we want. But if some other country like Russia invades Ukraine we decide to take a “moral stand” that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and it is also against Christianity…

The people in this thread that support Ukraine and say Russia is evil are wrong. they rarely if it all talk about America’s involvement in wars or that the United States is the most militarized country in all of world history. Our military power and budget is way greater than that of even China and China is a country of over 1 billion people.

And I want the United States to remain the strongest country in the world with the strongest military. But let’s use our military members and military equipment for the right reasons and we have no right to be funding this Russia Ukraine conflict this is an Eastern European conflict. There’s no moral argument to support this war if it was about morals we will be helping out the people in Africa who are starving to death.

Although I voted for Donald Trump in 2020 and I would again in 2024, I don’t believe in “America first”. I believe that the United States should help to guide the world to be a better place. Now I certainly would say the hundred billion dollars we wrongfully have sent to Ukraine politicians(nobody knows where the money is going) should have been used to help the people of East Palestine it should be used to eliminate homelessness in America which can be done.….

Ukraine has corruption issues Ukraine has oligarchs just like Russia does. There’s a lot of similarities between Ukraine politics and Russian politics.

______Also Russia is rejecting a lot of this far left American politics where America expects the world to agree that men who dress like women should get women’s awards and take away rights from women. Russia does not agree with this and frankly that is honorable.



It comes down to ideology. There are Nazis in Ukraine there are white supremacists there and it’s really astonishing that the people in this thread who claim to be Democrats support Ukraine and say nothing about that even though vice news in the BBC western news outlets have shown us. They’ve shown the racism from Ukraine.

It seems that the last necessary war America fought in was World War II.

But I have always stood by the American military whether it be those who fought in Vietnam, Korea or the two gulf wars…. I stand by the office of the presidency. And that’s America for you that’s what freedom of speech means you can disagree with a war while still supporting the military and even the war effort. And certainly supporting the troops supporting American troops.

And of course there’s other reasons Americans are saying we should be out of this war …. it has been listed in this thread and others.

Your so-called Christian brothers in Russia are Christian in name only. They are a bunch of terroristic fascists. And no Christian can be that. It would be like saying Hitler was a Christian. Not anything real or tangible.

 

[Stann]

But your fellow Soviets want that very badly...

View attachment 790136

Says the fascist. Nothing believable in what you say.

 

[Stann]

Europeans might all be speaking German but the USA would exist. your exaggerations are foolish. Why do you want another Viet Nam in Ukraine? That is what most of DC seems to want, why is that? Could it be that they are all on the payroll of the weapons industry?

You idiot, the objective of the Axis powers was world domination.

 

[Stann]

What?

Corn, the Ukraine exports 13.5 million metric tons a year, or roughly 7% of the world's total.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

The principle is called Just War. It is a derivative of the principles put forth by St. Augustine.

Just war theory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is an ethical checklist of sorts to insure your actions are necessary and honorable.

One part of being honorable is honesty. Let’s say you and I are neighbors and we have an argument. After a short while we decide to talk and at the conclusion of the discussion we shake and declare everything is good.

We have disagreed over where the property line is. We discuss it and agree to let a survey determine the truth. We go to an outside party.

Afterwards I call the cops and swear you are dealing drugs and there are underage kids in there. My actions are unjust. My actions are dishonorable. I am dishonest in this scenario.

Such things end up in the news as a bad neighbor. Most everyone would agree that in that scenario I was an asshole. Any excuses I offer later would be ignored or laughed at.

Russia is not conducting a Just War. America was wrong. There were no WMD’s in Iraq. The evidence could be interpreted as Iraq having them. But they did not. And America suffered a black eye for being wrong. However America did set out to demonstrate that the war would be just.

Russia by contrast set out to lie. And they lied. They lied the day before the actual invasion. They announced it after the reports from Ukraine hit the news wires.

Russia’s actions were so dishonorable that even Switzerland who has spent centuries being Neutral in every conflict took sides against Russia. Think about that for just a moment.

There is no comparison between the American invasion of Iraq and Russia in Ukraine. None. And any effort to do so is at best disingenuous. At worst another flat out lie.

And finally. The difference between a lie and a mistake. Let’s say you are being questioned by Police. They ask if you saw Bob Wednesday Evening. You think and say yes. You saw him that evening. It turns out that it was Tuesday you saw him. You confused the days. You made a mistake. Mistakes are human. We all make them. If on the other hand you know you didn’t see him on Wednesday but you say you did. That is a lie. When you knowingly present false information.

Russia lied. America was mistaken.

Brother you’re only providing your viewpoints and interpretation of how a third party which is the United States should handle the dispute between two countries. The United States was not attacked by Russia. That is a huge part of this situation. So for us to get involved here is questionable considering all the other conflicts in the world. It is the right thing and the pro American thing to do to ask if Ukraine, or rather the current Ukrainian government is the right government to support. Just because some Hollywood actors and celebrities support the Ukrainian president does not make Ukraine the good guys in this war. What about the poor working class Guy interviewed by vice news a few years ago and Ukraine who said he believes Ukraine Russia, in Belarus should all be one country. That seems to be a viewpoint held by some number of Ukrainians in the eastern part of Ukraine.

You can say what you want about Iraq but the fact remains that many Iraqi’s fought for their country when America invaded in 2003…..why didn’t they get the money and the weapons from the west like Ukraine is getting? This is a critical thing to answer here. America invaded Iraq, but England or NATO did not need to support the United States.

Ukraine historically has connections to Russia. India and China are home to half of the world’s population and they are neutral in this current war.



What you’re not seeing is the fact that both America and Russia have populations that are patriots and support their military.. even if they’re involved in a warfare that many people view was unjust.

 

[Lesh]

Brother you’re only providing your viewpoints and interpretation of how a third party which is the United States should handle the dispute between two countries. The United States was not attacked by Russia. That is a huge part of this situation. So for us to get involved here is questionable considering all the other conflicts in the world. It is the right thing and the pro American thing to do to ask if Ukraine, or rather the current Ukrainian government is the right government to support. Just because some Hollywood actors and celebrities support the Ukrainian president does not make Ukraine the good guys in this war. What about the poor working class Guy interviewed by vice news a few years ago and Ukraine who said he believes Ukraine Russia, in Belarus should all be one country. That seems to be a viewpoint held by some number of Ukrainians in the eastern part of Ukraine.

Ukraine historically has connections to Russia. India and China are home to half of the world’s population and they are neutral in this war.

What you’re not seeing is the fact that both America and Russia have populations that are patriots and support their military.. even if they’re involved in a warfare that many people view was unjust.

As usual… a wordy bunch of useless rambling

 

[Ringo]

 

[SavannahMann]

Brother you’re only providing your viewpoints and interpretation of how a third party which is the United States should handle the dispute between two countries. The United States was not attacked by Russia. That is a huge part of this situation. So for us to get involved here is questionable considering all the other conflicts in the world. It is the right thing and the pro American thing to do to ask if Ukraine, or rather the current Ukrainian government is the right government to support. Just because some Hollywood actors and celebrities support the Ukrainian president does not make Ukraine the good guys in this war. What about the poor working class Guy interviewed by vice news a few years ago and Ukraine who said he believes Ukraine Russia, in Belarus should all be one country. That seems to be a viewpoint held by some number of Ukrainians in the eastern part of Ukraine.

You can say what you want about Iraq but the fact remains that many Iraqi’s fought for their country when America invaded in 2003…..why didn’t they get the money and the weapons from the west like Ukraine is getting? This is a critical thing to answer here. America invaded Iraq, but England or NATO did not need to support the United States.

Ukraine historically has connections to Russia. India and China are home to half of the world’s population and they are neutral in this current war.



What you’re not seeing is the fact that both America and Russia have populations that are patriots and support their military.. even if they’re involved in a warfare that many people view was unjust.

Actions are always judged by a third party. They have been since the dawn of civilization.

If I was to walk up and punch you in the mouth. I could tell the cop, the court, the Judge that they should butt out this is between us. But they won’t. They would find my actions unjustified. They would penalize me for the injury I inflicted. The unjustified actions would be judged.

This goes back to the earliest civilizations. Third parties made decisions of who was wrong and who was right.

This is the entire purpose of various organizations. The UN is of course the best known. But there are others. They are third parties to determine if an action or activity is justified and proper.

Your argument is that if you aren’t involved you got nothing to say. besides ignoring history and human nature. It violates the very premise of civilization. Civilization. Civil. Civilized.

Thus far direct action has not been taken against Russia by anyone else. It isn’t American troops in Ukraine. If there were they would be 100 kilometers inside Russia proper, and advancing rapidly. It has only been weapons and material. Medical supplies. Equipment. Trucks. Tanks. And now airplanes. We aren’t alone. A lot of nations are sending the same.

As far as people dying in war. That is the case in every war. It is why the Just War conditions must be met. The problem isn’t that Ukrainian people are dying. It isn’t that Russians are dying. It is that Russia’s actions are unjustified. If they had acted in a Just Manner none of this would have happened. Their dishonorable actions caused this. They could stop at any time.

 

[Stann]

As usual… a wordy bunch of useless rambling

He's trying to defend this aggression. I think he's crazy or a Russian, or both.

 

[Stann]

You must have missed class when the topic was that part of history called The Crusades.

That was one of the biggest mistakes they made. The other, worse sin of all, was to go from the persecuted to those who persecute.

 

[Redfish]

You think it’s in our ( that of the US… not sure where you are from) interest to have The USSR reconstituted?

Are you that stupid?

You idiot, the objective of the Axis powers was world domination.

yes, and we stopped it. putin is not trying to conquer the world, only the part that was once part of russia and is now a very corrupt dictatorship, its none of our fricken business.

 

[Redfish]

You idiot, the objective of the Axis powers was world domination.

of course it was and we ended it. WTF does that have to do with Ukraine?

 

[Redfish]

Because we fucked up in Iraq...that is no reason that we should fuck up by allowing Russia to invade sovereign nations

why can't you libs learn the lesson of viet nam? are you ready to sacrifice 58,000 more american lives for nothing?

 

[Redfish]

They had no choice. They were attacked. Like Ukraine is now.

In fact a case could be made that had not Stalin agreed to let Germany invade Poland, that might never have happened

if we had stayed out of the ukraine mess it would be over by now and ukraine would be part of russia again and putin would have to deal with its corruption and criminals.

 

[Stann]

yes, and we stopped it. putin is not trying to conquer the world, only the part that was once part of russia and is now a very corrupt dictatorship, its none of our fricken business.

Who the hell knows what Putin is trying to do ; it appears he doesn't even know what he's doing. The Ukraine was always independent of Russia. The Ukraine joined the Soviet Union on December 30th. , 1922. The biggest mistake they ever made. Russia thinks they own them now.