Why do you support Ukraine?

[Stann]

if we had stayed out of the ukraine mess it would be over by now and ukraine would be part of russia again and putin would have to deal with its corruption and criminals.

Yes, and you're saying bravo for the bad guys. Shame on you.

 

[Stann]

why can't you libs learn the lesson of viet nam? are you ready to sacrifice 58,000 more american lives for nothing?

No one could have stopped the Vietnam War from happening. I don't know if you were alive back then but Americans were gungho about defeating communism back then and it was viewed in that light. I enlisted in that war. A lot of my friends moved to Canada to stay out of it.

 

[d0gbreath]

I support Ukraine because I cannot stand Vladimir Putin.

 

[Redfish]

Who the hell knows what Putin is trying to do ; it appears he doesn't even know what he's doing. The Ukraine was always independent of Russia. The Ukraine joined the Soviet Union on December 30th. , 1922. The biggest mistake they ever made. Russia thinks they own them now.

So what? Let Putin have it, then its his problem, not ours. We have wasted billions trying to protect the Biden criminal bribes from ukraine.

 

[Redfish]

No one could have stopped the Vietnam War from happening. I don't know if you were alive back then but Americans were gungho about defeating communism back then and it was viewed in that light. I enlisted in that war. A lot of my friends moved to Canada to stay out of it.

bullshit, and yes I was very alive through those times. lost many friends and relatatives in Kennedy and Johnson's fiasco. Then Nicon ended it be declaring defeat. At least he didn't leave allies and equipment for the enemy as senile joe did in Afghanistan. The domino theory------------total horseshit.

 

[Redfish]

Yes, and you're saying bravo for the bad guys. Shame on you.

actually in most of these stupid undeclared wars we were the bad guys. We should stand back and watch the others destroy each other like the Chinese do. The lessons of viet nam will neve be understood by fools like you.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Most Democrats support Ukraine because Joe Biden told them to, as he used the American military to support his personal corrupt business relationships/dealings.

 

[Stann]

Most Democrats support Ukraine because Joe Biden told them to, as he used the American military to support his personal corrupt business relationships/dealings.

Stop with the political lies. America entered WWII because of the grave injustices created by Nazi Germany and their threat to the entire world. It is not the American way to stand by and do nothing in the face of such unwarranted snd horrific aggression we are seeing in the Ukraine by Russia. I don't know about you but I hate bullies. Putin is acting like a wannabe Hitler. Never again. You want to let him getaway with this, what if he says that worked and the invades Poland or another nation. Do we finally act then. No don't give that creep an inch.

 

[Stann]

bullshit, and yes I was very alive through those times. lost many friends and relatatives in Kennedy and Johnson's fiasco. Then Nicon ended it be declaring defeat. At least he didn't leave allies and equipment for the enemy as senile joe did in Afghanistan. The domino theory------------total horseshit.

Trump set up that surrender.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Stop with the political lies. America entered WWII because of the grave injustices created by Nazi Germany and their threat to the entire world. It is not the American way to stand by and do nothing in the face of such unwarranted snd horrific aggression we are seeing in the Ukraine by Russia. I don't know about you but I hate bullies. Putin is acting like a wannabe Hitler. Never again. You want to let him getaway with this, what if he says that worked and the invades Poland or another nation. Do we finally act then. No don't give that creep an inch.

If you think Putin going after oil fields in corrupt Ukraine and Hitler into Poland are the same thing… your historically illiterate.

But, you’d fit right into the Democrat Warhawk push that Biden leads. There’s a reason why there was peace while Trump was in office, and then when Joe gets in it’s mayhem in the Middle East, China tension on Taiwan, and Russia invading.

 

[Stann]

If you think Putin going after oil fields in corrupt Ukraine and Hitler into Poland are the same thing… your historically illiterate.

But, you’d fit right into the Democrat Warhawk push that Biden leads. There’s a reason why there was peace while Trump was in office, and then when Joe gets in it’s mayhem in the Middle East, China tension on Taiwan, and Russia invading.

People had the illusion of peace with trump. Putin has already started his attack strategy on the Ukraine ( started as soon as the pro-russian government collapsed in the Ukraine 2014 ).

 

[SavannahMann]

yes, and we stopped it. putin is not trying to conquer the world, only the part that was once part of russia and is now a very corrupt dictatorship, its none of our fricken business.

World War II started when France and England declared war on Germany for invading Poland. They let Hitler have a lot before they drew the line. What the rest of us learned is that you can’t give an inch even once. How did this lesson evade you?

 

[Stann]

If you think Putin going after oil fields in corrupt Ukraine and Hitler into Poland are the same thing… your historically illiterate.

But, you’d fit right into the Democrat Warhawk push that Biden leads. There’s a reason why there was peace while Trump was in office, and then when Joe gets in it’s mayhem in the Middle East, China tension on Taiwan, and Russia invading.

Fascism is still fascism. You can't get away with it in the past, we shouldn't allow it to occur today.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Fascism is still fascism. You can't get away with it in the past, we shouldn't allow it to occur today.

So you want to go start wars all across the globe wherever any perceived “fascism” is??

Geez, blood thirsty war hawks over here, going to start WW3

 

[Lesh]

if we had stayed out of the ukraine mess it would be over by now and ukraine would be part of russia again and putin would have to deal with its corruption and criminals.

He'd be well on his way to reconstituting the USSR and Ukraine would be as corrupt as your homeland Russia

 

[Mr. Friscus]

People had the illusion of peace with trump.

No illusion. It was peace. Trump brought in an unprecedented peace deal in the Middle East.

Your guy is the one causing conflict, death, and sprinting towards WW3

 

[Stann]

So you want to go start wars all across the globe wherever any perceived “fascism” is??

Geez, blood thirsty war hawks over here, going to start WW3

No, but Putin should know better. He is the biggest threat to the world at the present. Threatening people with nuclear attacks should not be taken lightly, especially him because he's such a jackass.

 

[Stann]

No illusion. It was peace. Trump brought in an unprecedented peace deal in the Middle East.

Your guy is the one causing conflict, death, and sprinting towards WW3

Yes, I remember he sold out the Kurds then sold out the Afghans. Great PR for the US. " You can't trust US. "

 

[ralfy]

Interesting comparison. Let’s look at the comparison for a moment. And we can expand upon it.

For Iraq the United States spent months earning and telling not only Iraq but the world we would invade. We made our case publicly. We didn’t pretend we wouldn’t go in and announce it after the fact. For months we told everyone we would invade.

Russia denied it. They said the Western Nations were lying when they warned that Russia was getting ready to invade. Russia swore it wasn’t going to invade right up to an hour after the invasion had begun. Then Russia said they were conducting a limited military action for special security needs.

Russia lied about their intentions.

Let’s expand upon this. What shocked the world on December 7 1941 was the attack prior to the declaration of war. We know the history. The declaration was delayed by the Embassy. If there was ever any intention to deliver it before the attack. Thirty minutes isn’t much warning after all.

The World was outraged. That just wasn’t how things were done.

Today the World is angry at Russia. And Russia like Japan in 1941 has done it to themselves. Russia decided to lie. They lied. And they denounced those who warned it was coming.

Now which course of action is more honorable? America was wrong about the existence of WMD’s. The evidence seemed to indicate it. But they were wrong. However even the most America Hating shill for Russia would have to admit that America told the truth about their intentions. While Russia lied and then kept lying through to today about why they invaded.

So your comparison is interesting as it makes Russia look even worse.

The U.S. was arming Iraq before the 1990s and supporting the Shah of Iran, too. Then it encouraged Iraq to attack Iran when the Iranian dictatorship fell apart. After that, it tried to make deals with the Islamic Republic in Iran while providing arms to Islamic fundamentalists recruited by its ally Saudi Arabia and trained by its ally Pakistan to atack the Soviets in Afghanistan. After that, it attacked the offshoot of those fundamentalists as part of a war on terror and then in turn supported Northern Alliance rapists and drug pushers.

That's related to what it's currently doing in the Middle East, where it's arming Israel because the latter fears attacks from countries that don't like it, such as Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, and then arm the three, too.

And all that is similar to what happened in this case, where the U.S. called for NATO enlargement via Clinton, but following the Wolfowitz Doctrine, and then started manipulating Ukraine from 2004 onward. That's the same NATO that joined the U.S. in engaging in mayhem in many parts of the world, including Afghanistan.

Now, it and its allies don't want to send troops but more aid, and aid with strings attached, as it enriches the military industrial complex:

For Western Weapons, the Ukraine War Is a Beta Test (Published 2022)

Though the battle for Ukraine remains largely a grinding artillery war, new advances in technology and training there are being closely monitored for the ways they are starting to shape combat.

www.nytimes.com

and Wall Street which funds that, the government, and much of the U.S. population:

Zelenskyy, BlackRock CEO Fink agree to coordinate Ukraine investment

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and BlackRock CEO Larry Fink have agreed to coordinate investment in rebuilding Ukraine, Kyiv announced Wednesday

www.cnbc.com

as part of regime change and proxy wars.

 

[Stann]

This thread is meant for Americans who support Ukraine or I suppose Canadians or Europeans for that matter. Why do you support Ukraine?

Let me explain my position on the war I am neutral in the Russia Ukraine war. As an American I recognize that we invaded dated Iraq … for anyone here who supports Ukraine when we invaded Iraq in 2003 did you support Iraq? If not then what kind of logic do you have? When we went to war in Vietnam to defend south Vietnam from north Vietnam did you support north Vietnam ? because if you didn’t then why are you supporting Ukraine today?


Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia did not invade the United States of America. As an American I have no reason to be against Russia they did not support Saddam Hussein and Iraq in 2003 and they could have quite easily… but they did not they could’ve sent them tons and tons of F-16 jets or they could’ve sent them rifles they could’ve sent them plenty of tanks who knows chemical weapons they could’ve sent them many things that’s the point but they didn’t.


I suspect many people here support Ukraine because their government is telling them to do so. Because they see pictures on the media outlets including right wing and left wing …showing some Ukrainian refugees and children crying. Going by that same logic literally the same logic because we’re all human beings doesn’t matter what country you’re from unless somebody is a bigot. ….What about the grandmas in Iraq that were crying and screaming because of their dead grandchildren when the Americans invaded?

I can already imagine some of the far left wing and even the neo conservative responses

“ oh Saddam Hussein’s not the same thing as Zelenskyy”

Well actually Saddam Hussein had a huge amount of support from Iraqi Christians and from women in Iraq. And look at today Iraq is almost controlled by Iran and there’s many people in Iraq many people in the Arab nation that are against Iran they don’t like seeing women forced to cover their hair. But in Iraq and parts of Iraq that’s an issue now. Wasn’t like that in the 1980s or 1990s when by the way America support Iraq in a fight against Iran.

“ Ukrainian lives matter , CNN tells me this so I support Ukraine, can’t you see what Vladimir Putin is doing to Ukraine. Can’t you see how evil the Russians are. Don’t you see all the pictures of people crying in Ukraine

This is not a logical argument from the neoconservatives and from the left-wing Americans. And here is why …you could look at the photos from the Vietnam war of young Vietnamese babies being killed Vietnamese children crying.

There are individual Americans and individual Russians who have committed war crimes in war…but most Americans and most Russians just like most Ukrainians are good people. This all goes back to one thing you see America has invaded other countries so when Russia invaded Ukraine don’t throw that stone in the glass house.

Finally and here’s something really important to consider. Yes it is true that Russia is not really like Vietnam or Iraq in one singular extraordinary sense. Russia has the most nuclear weapons in the world.

And Russia keeps threatening nation after nation that they will use nuclear weapons on them. Should we hold their hands and tell them that's ok. Rabid animals need to be put down. That rule in life never changed.