Why do you support illegal immigration?

[Charles_Main]

See, the free market works!

We are just starting to see our unemployment rate creep up, and the illegals are no longer in hot demand.

Yeah, it is working great here in Michigan with 1.1 million people out of work.

 

[Paulie]

There would be no rounding up for citizenship path, they would be compelled to come forward because it would be in their interests. Rounding them up is just asking for more government without oversight and more abuses of the constitution, privacy and human rights by government. How long to you really think it would be before companies like Blackwater were searching homes without warrants and detaining American citizens at gunpoint with full legal protection? 6 months, tops.

Right. They'll hide out until they are told all is well, and now they can have what they tried to STEAL, for FREE now. As hard as it is to become a citizen of this country, I'll be DAMNED if people are going to just walk across the border, live off our assets virtually for FREE, while breaking our laws, and then be REWARDED for it by being given citizenship ANYWAY.

No my friend, you do it like everyone else did it. You work for it, and you fucking EARN it.

You don't let a problem exascerbate itself, and then what it becomes too overwhelming, you simply reward the problem with what amounts to a handout.

As a Paulite, i'm surprised you think more government is the solution.

No, read my post. I said there doesn't NEED to be anymore government. There are laws already in place to combat illegal immigration. The PROBLEM is that they aren't being enforced.

I'm an advocate of putting troops along the border, where they can serve a real purpose, instead of being deployed to countries we have no business intervening in. A certain country immediately comes to mind.

We are being invaded, whether you are willing to admit that or not. At any time, one of those immigrants crossing our border could be a terrorist with a nuclear weapon. To be as lax on that as we already are, and then to further REWARD those criminals with free citizenship, is fucking INSANE.

 

[Charles_Main]

Right. They'll hide out until they are told all is well, and now they can have what they tried to STEAL, for FREE now. As hard as it is to become a citizen of this country, I'll be DAMNED if people are going to just walk across the border, live off our assets virtually for FREE, while breaking our laws, and then be REWARDED for it by being given citizenship ANYWAY.

No my friend, you do it like everyone else did it. You work for it, and you fucking EARN it.

You don't let a problem exascerbate itself, and then what it becomes too overwhelming, you simply reward the problem with what amounts to a handout.



No, read my post. I said there doesn't NEED to be anymore government. There are laws already in place to combat illegal immigration. The PROBLEM is that they aren't being enforced.

I'm an advocate of putting troops along the border, where they can serve a real purpose, instead of being deployed to countries we have no business intervening in. A certain country immediately comes to mind.

We are being invaded, whether you are willing to admit that or not. At any time, one of those immigrants crossing our border could be a terrorist with a nuclear weapon. To be as lax on that as we already are, and then to further REWARD those criminals with free citizenship, is fucking INSANE.

Great post man, I agree with nearly all of it. However I am sure Jillian will chime in to tell us how No terrorists are crossing our border. she seems to have some crystal ball that tells here this, Considering we do not even know how many are crossing, let alone who.

If you ask me the first damn thing we should have done after 911 was to get control of our borders, second IMO would have been to send Saudi Arabia back into the stone age

 

[Reality]

So let's turn the question around again. Why do feel it is okay for them to get a tax break, as in all taxes, and not okay for you?

I don't. That's why I'm for amnesty. I don't want to pay for a secret police force to track them all down, I want to enfranchise them so they do pay their share and then see a system put in place that represents the supply and demand factors for these workers, not some artificial quota. Not representing the market forces for these workers is, in my view, how the situation got so out of control and how we have some 20m illegals.

 

[Reality]

How do you know the whole country of Mexico doesn't want to come here???? We have this many people coming here illegally!!!!!! That number would easily quadruple if we started granting amnesty. It's amazing you would rather see a depression in the whole country than enforce the laws in this country... Do you live in Mexico?

You misunderstand the amnesty proposals. Amnesty is a way to get illegals on the books and thus enabling them to work and pay taxes. Its not for anyone in Mexico.

"However if I chose to compensate them for providing a service that wouldn't be breaking in" What the hell does that mean???? Besides what does color or where they come from have to do with anything? So as long as you pay them to break into your home it's not a break in???????? Please elaborate.

If I did in fact compensate someone for a service... let's say if I needed fruit picked on my farm, the worker whom I'm compensating wouldn't be trespassing. In other words, if an illegal is given amnesty and begins paying income taxes, they wouldn't be illegal anymore. In hindsight, I made a poor analogy, but thats what I was trying to say.

So becasue it is to hard to enforce we should just let them in is that what you are saying?

No, I'm saying tracking down the 20m people that are already here is an impossible task that doesn't meet any cost-benefit analysis, except some feel good idea of vindication. Its just not reality.

We can't catch all drunk drivers so let's just make that legal as well...

I tentatively agree. There are already plenty of driving to endanger type laws as well as vehicular manslaughter and such. It's the same reason I feel conflicted on hate crimes laws. Another topic...

Who decides what laws we need to enforce and what laws can slide?

Why did prohibition collapse? Because it was a complete failure. See 1986 immigration reform for another example of complete failure. My ideas are two fold. Amnesty to enfranchise and thus collect taxes and real reform of immigration that takes into account the supply and demand factors related to immigrant workers.

 

[Reality]

Right. They'll hide out until they are told all is well, and now they can have what they tried to STEAL, for FREE now. As hard as it is to become a citizen of this country, I'll be DAMNED if people are going to just walk across the border, live off our assets virtually for FREE, while breaking our laws, and then be REWARDED for it by being given citizenship ANYWAY.

The way I understand the failed immigration proposal of last year is that people would pay a moderate to minimal fine and thus be put on citizenship path. They would then be authorized to work, for which they would now be paying more than payroll taxes. It makes the most economic sense.

No my friend, you do it like everyone else did it. You work for it, and you fucking EARN it.

My parents had sex and I fell out in this country. That's all I did: fall out of a vagina. I don't pretend to have some moral high ground because of it.

You don't let a problem exascerbate itself, and then what it becomes too overwhelming, you simply reward the problem with what amounts to a handout.

I'm sorry, but thats just hyper-emotional reactionism. We can't help that the problem is way out of control now. Unless you have Bill and Ted in your closet, we are basically up shit's creek.

No, read my post. I said there doesn't NEED to be anymore government. There are laws already in place to combat illegal immigration. The PROBLEM is that they aren't being enforced.

Who exactly is going to go find these 20m people? The FBI? Give me a break. Now if our country would stop wasting its resources on locking people up for getting high, maybe you might have a point. But we both know that's not going to happen.

I'm an advocate of putting troops along the border, where they can serve a real purpose, instead of being deployed to countries we have no business intervening in. A certain country immediately comes to mind.

I think we may see eye to eye more on foreign policy, and in that sense I agree. Militarizing anything in our country is a non-starter for me. The military should be for one thing: destroying stuff and killing people when it is absolutely necessary. Anything else should be handled by civilian authority.

We are being invaded, whether you are willing to admit that or not. At any time, one of those immigrants crossing our border could be a terrorist with a nuclear weapon. To be as lax on that as we already are, and then to further REWARD those criminals with free citizenship, is fucking INSANE.

We are being invaded by who? Who are these people crossing the border loyal to? What is their intent in this country? What arms are they taking up against our government? More hyper-emotional grandstanding.

You know who assimilated to this country through a legal process?

Marwan al-Shehhi (from the United Arab Emirates), Fayez Banihammad (from the United Arab Emirates), Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).

American Airlines Flight 11: Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian), Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian), Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).

United Airlines Flight 93: Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese), Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian), Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).

American Airlines Flight 77: Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian), Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian), Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian), Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian), Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).

Organizers of the September 11, 2001 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If a nuclear weapon is going to come into this country it is coming in on a shipping container on the seas that won't be inspected. It will likely be Chinese in origin with Muslim agents, likely not Arab but North African most likely Sudanese, to deliver and detonate. It won't be caught because its too hard and not economically viable to inspect them all.

So when all the shipping containers are inspected we can start worrying about Mexicans pushing a rake or cleaning an office or picking fruit and the terrorist threat they pose.

And finally:

As of May, the U.S. government had 972 Border Patrol agents on the northern border but almost 12,000 on the southern one. The United States and Canada share more than 5,000 miles of border, while the U.S. and Mexico share 1,900 miles.

Report: Security on U.S.-Canada border fails terror test - CNN.com

 

[José]

US MESSAGE BOARD IN 1831​

Thread: Why do you support illegal immigration?

Reply from 99% of the posters:

Because those illegal americans will eventually double the size of our country, dumbass!!!

 

[CharlestonChad]

Yeah, it is working great here in Michigan with 1.1 million people out of work.

Didn't the American auto industry take major hits over the last decade? What percentage of those unemployed are due to this?

 

[Charles_Main]

Didn't the American auto industry take major hits over the last decade? What percentage of those unemployed are due to this?

A lot I am sure.

but then I said that in response to this

See, the free market works!

We are just starting to see our unemployment rate creep up, and the illegals are no longer in hot demand.

I for one think the collapse of our auto industry is one sign that the free market is not working so great, at least not for Michigan

 

[DiamondDave]

I don't. That's why I'm for amnesty. I don't want to pay for a secret police force to track them all down, I want to enfranchise them so they do pay their share and then see a system put in place that represents the supply and demand factors for these workers, not some artificial quota. Not representing the market forces for these workers is, in my view, how the situation got so out of control and how we have some 20m illegals.

You want US to LET them pay FAIR share when they did not play FAIR and follow the rules... disenfranchising those who DID play by the rules?

No... we should in NO way reward these law breakers... find 'em, deport 'em and put them right to the back of the line... sure things up so that far less get through... sanctions on these 'sanctuary cities' that thwart federal law... sanctions and extreme punishments on ANY company caught knowingly employing illegal aliens

I am not one to reward wrongdoing

 

[Ravi]

You want US to LET them pay FAIR share when they did not play FAIR and follow the rules... disenfranchising those who DID play by the rules?

No... we should in NO way reward these law breakers... find 'em, deport 'em and put them right to the back of the line... sure things up so that far less get through... sanctions on these 'sanctuary cities' that thwart federal law... sanctions and extreme punishments on ANY company caught knowingly employing illegal aliens

I am not one to reward wrongdoing

I'm glad you see paying taxes as a reward. I've never thought of it that way, more as a privledge...but whatever floats your boat.

 

[CA95380]

.... I don't support illegal immigration! As a matter of fact I am tired of going to my local hospital waiting room, waiting for 13 hours to see a doctor, because 90% of the people sitting there are "illegal aliens" getting "free" medical care .... from *Medi-Cal! (*California's Health Plan for Illegal Aliens)!

I even heard there is a sign in the Mexican Welfare office's .... telling people trying to get it ..

.... (a rough translation) .. ¡Somos cerrados! ¡Vaya a California! ¡Pida una aplicación aquí - antes usted sale!
.... In English - "We are closed! Go to California! Ask for an application here - before you leave!"

I don't know it the above is true or not ... but it very well could be!

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm glad you see paying taxes as a reward. I've never thought of it that way, more as a privledge...but whatever floats your boat.

Citizenship and all the benefits that go with it IS a reward... the government is run and funded by the taxes that everyone pays... rewarding the illegal scum for breaking the rules and giving them this amnesty is indeed rewarding bad behavior

 

[Charles_Main]

Citizenship and all the benefits that go with it IS a reward... the government is run and funded by the taxes that everyone pays... rewarding the illegal scum for breaking the rules and giving them this amnesty is indeed rewarding bad behavior

I tend to agree in principle, but I like to keep things realistic. So could you tell me realistically how we can round up and deport 20 million people?

 

[dilloduck]

I have to laugh when those European descent get up in arms over 'illegal' immigration; it's what this nation was founded on. As far as I am concerned if you are European and in favor of deportation then you need to get on your damn boat back to Europe and deport yourselves. How hilarious that the ancestors of Caucasian people came over here and didn't give a shit over the fact that they brought: war, disease, and genocide to my ancestors living here and now they point a finger an whine at people crossing the border to make a better life for themselves.

I've worked in the school system with families that are clearly here illegally and they are some of the hardest working, most caring parents that I have had the honor to meet. Many of these people come here with the intention of bettering themselves and securing a future for their children. This is much more honorable than the immigrations of the past based on exploitation and destruction. Shame on those who can't seem to recall the way their ancestors came to this land and now demonize those that come here in a more peaceful manner.

If we want to stop illegal immigration then we need to have a hand in solving the economic and social crisis that are running rampant in the home countries of the people immigrating here. We won't solve immigration by simply bandaging the symptoms of those moving here unofficially as it will be a continuous situation that won't go away. Our government should stop supporting oppressive governments abroad and I believe we would see far fewer people fleeing the abuse of their own nations. However, IMO those of native/mexican descent have a greater ecological right to this continent and the indigenous people will eventually be prosperous again

Those of European descent didn't come to North America to mow someones lawns and get free medical care. They BUILT the place.

We HAVE tried to stop oppressive governments--Bush haters freaked out.

Ecological rights ??? That's close to the stupidest thing I've heard in years.
Please explain to me what your ecological rights are.

And last but not least, Why does any American with half a brain think that it's a great idea to encourage immigration, legal or illegal. Do you understand that overpopulating any country destroys it?

 

[DiamondDave]

I tend to agree in principle, but I like to keep things realistic. So could you tell me realistically how we can round up and deport 20 million people?

How about you START doing it... and stop letting pansy liberals and "sanctuary cities" thwart federal law.... how about finish doing the work to improve border security... how about stop handcuffing other branches of law enforcement from taking arrested illegals and getting them into the existing system to deport them... how about when illegals are discovered, start letting police and other government officials into the process to round them up for deportation...

there are many places to START and get better at deporting these illegals

 

[Ravi]

How about you START doing it... and stop letting pansy liberals and "sanctuary cities" thwart federal law.... how about finish doing the work to improve border security... how about stop handcuffing other branches of law enforcement from taking arrested illegals and getting them into the existing system to deport them... how about when illegals are discovered, start letting police and other government officials into the process to round them up for deportation...

there are many places to START and get better at deporting these illegals

Why are you trying to force Charles to do something you are afraid to do yourself? Interesting that you think enforcing federal law is the duty of the states and the citizens.

 

[Charles_Main]

How about you START doing it... and stop letting pansy liberals and "sanctuary cities" thwart federal law.... how about finish doing the work to improve border security... how about stop handcuffing other branches of law enforcement from taking arrested illegals and getting them into the existing system to deport them... how about when illegals are discovered, start letting police and other government officials into the process to round them up for deportation...

there are many places to START and get better at deporting these illegals

Dude, how do you equate wanting to know how we would round up 20 million people, to supporting sanctuary cities, I guess you missed my post about San Fran, and my other posts about how I want our government to get control of the border.

Pay attention, oh and did you just call me a liberal?? lol now thats a good one.

 

[dilloduck]

Why are you trying to force Charles to do something you are afraid to do yourself? Interesting that you think enforcing federal law is the duty of the states and the citizens.

People really need to be clear about something here. The PEOPLE that enforce federal law live in states and are US citizens. Pointing fingers at who should stop crime doesn't stop crime and illegal immigration IS crime.

 

[Charles_Main]

Why are you trying to force Charles to do something you are afraid to do yourself? Interesting that you think enforcing federal law is the duty of the states and the citizens.

I think he meant that the states, some of them anyways, are ignoring federal law by not reporting illegals. On that one point I would have to agree with him.