Why do so many teachers leave the profession?

[Esmeralda]

They get tired of having three months off every summer?

No this is a benefit.

Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.

What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?

You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.

From what lofty position do you look down on the teaching profession? Is it your perch up there on you forklift?

 

[Skull Pilot]

"Teachers are some of the highest paid public servants, this means that THE PUBLIC pays for them."

And they SHOULD be paid handsomely. What is the problem with that? If you believe they are paid too much then why didnt you become one? The average teacher where I live makes $50,000. To me thats peanuts for what they do.

50 grand for less than 9 month's work.

You think that's not enough?

 

[Skull Pilot]

They get tired of having three months off every summer?

No this is a benefit.

Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.

What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?

You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.

It's usually the worst students who gravitate toward the education curricula

 

[Esmeralda]

"Teachers are some of the highest paid public servants, this means that THE PUBLIC pays for them."

And they SHOULD be paid handsomely. What is the problem with that? If you believe they are paid too much then why didnt you become one? The average teacher where I live makes $50,000. To me thats peanuts for what they do.

50 grand for less than 9 month's work.

You think that's not enough?

It is 10 months a year and most teachers work at least 10 hours a day because of homework, meetings, extra curricular activities, and coaching. And $50,000 is peanuts compared to other professionals with master's degrees, which is what most teacher have or have the equivalent of.

 

[Esmeralda]

No this is a benefit.

Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.

What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?

You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.

It's usually the worst students who gravitate toward the education curricula

Total bull shit. It is usually the worst students who end up looking down on teachers, and, who, incidently, end up in blue collar professions because they don't have the wherewithal to go to college. Those who were very good students, who loved school, are the ones who end up teaching: they want to share that experience with others; many had at least one specific teacher they admired and that person became a motivation and role model. The worst students end up like you, looking down on the teaching profession because they failed miserably in school,and, instead of taking responsibility for their own learning, they blame the teachers and the education system.

 

[Esmeralda]

"Before 5 years"?
I think that's the point at which teachers are either given tenure or are fired through RIF (Reduction In Force). The reason 50% leave is that they are fired, rather than granted tenure. The reason they're fired is because it's cheaper to re-hire someone fresh out of college. They then give them the "5 year run" and then fire their asses.

It's a racket. I used to have such empathy for teachers when Mrs. H. got hired. Yes her days often extended late into the night working on lesson plans and grading papers. Sure the summers off were great, but it averaged out to a 40 hour week even considering those summers off.

Now- I could give a shit. It is a racket fraught with nepotism, cronyism, and favoritism.

LOL Everything in your post is complete fantasy. None of it has any bearing on the real world.

 

[Samson]

They get tired of having three months off every summer?

No this is a benefit.

Another benefit is there is a relatively low barrier for entry into teaching. By "relative" I mean compared to most real professionals.

What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?

You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.

From what lofty position do you look down on the teaching profession? Is it your perch up there on you forklift?

Wow, what an incredibly unpersuasive argument: Ask a bunch of rhetorical questions, and provide no contrary evidence, then call others an idiots.



Your infantile response doesn't require much digestion:

Calling teaching a "profession" is like calling a housemaid a "domestic engineer."

 

[Samson]

What total BS. You ignoramous. You do not know what you are talking about. Teaching is not a real profession?

You think teaching a class of first graders is like baby sitting or something? Any old person can do it? You're an idiot.

It's usually the worst students who gravitate toward the education curricula

Total bull shit. It is usually the worst students who end up looking down on teachers, and, who, incidently, end up in blue collar professions because they don't have the wherewithal to go to college. Those who were very good students, who loved school, are the ones who end up teaching: they want to share that experience with others; many had at least one specific teacher they admired and that person became a motivation and role model. The worst students end up like you, looking down on the teaching profession because they failed miserably in school,and, instead of taking responsibility for their own learning, they blame the teachers and the education system.

Typical Eliteist Academia Crap.

The sad thing is that you don't seem to realize that even among academia, majoring in Education is only a step above majoring in Theatre Arts.

Pre-Law, Pre-Med, Engineering, Architecture, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Accounting, Finance, Economics....I could go on.....

They all know most Education majors are the least intellectually challenged students.

 

[Esmeralda]

It's usually the worst students who gravitate toward the education curricula

Total bull shit. It is usually the worst students who end up looking down on teachers, and, who, incidently, end up in blue collar professions because they don't have the wherewithal to go to college. Those who were very good students, who loved school, are the ones who end up teaching: they want to share that experience with others; many had at least one specific teacher they admired and that person became a motivation and role model. The worst students end up like you, looking down on the teaching profession because they failed miserably in school,and, instead of taking responsibility for their own learning, they blame the teachers and the education system.

Typical Eliteist Academia Crap.

The sad thing is that you don't seem to realize that even among academia, majoring in Education is only a step above majoring in Theatre Arts.

Pre-Law, Pre-Med, Engineering, Architecture, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Accounting, Finance, Economics....I could go on.....

They all know most Education majors are the least intellectually challenged students.

"They all know...." The thing is you don't know anything because you've never been to university. You haven't got a clue. Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them. Fool. The only teachers who have an 'education' degree that is not within a discipline are elementary teachers.

 

[WorldWatcher]

"They all know...." The thing is you don't know anything because you've never been to university. You haven't got a clue. Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them. Fool. The only teachers who have an 'education' degree that is not within a discipline are elementary teachers.

That's not quite true Esmeralda, you don't necessarily have to have a degree in a subject area to teach that area. As an example you don't have to have a Mathematics degree to teach mathematics. Since I live in Virginia, I'll use that state.

1. Now, you can graduate with a degree in that area and then take education courses for licensure.

2. However, you can graduate from an approved teacher prep program which specialists in math, in which case your degree is in education, not math.

3. You can graduate with another type of degree and still qualify to teach math if your coursework satisfies certain requirements. In Virginia they have to have 36 semester hours of math coursework (Algebra, Geometry, Analytic Geometry, Statistics, Discrete Math, Computer Science, Calculus). We have more than a couple of Math teachers in our high schools who have engineering degrees - not math.​

Just FYI.


>>>>

 

[Esmeralda]

"They all know...." The thing is you don't know anything because you've never been to university. You haven't got a clue. Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them. Fool. The only teachers who have an 'education' degree that is not within a discipline are elementary teachers.

That's not quite true Esmeralda, you don't necessarily have to have a degree in a subject area to teach that area. As an example you don't have to have a Mathematics degree to teach mathematics. Since I live in Virginia, I'll use that state.

1. Now, you can graduate with a degree in that area and then take education courses for licensure.

2. However, you can graduate from an approved teacher prep program which specialists in math, in which case your degree is in education, not math.

3. You can graduate with another type of degree and still qualify to teach math if your coursework satisfies certain requirements. In Virginia they have to have 36 semester hours of math coursework (Algebra, Geometry, Analytic Geometry, Statistics, Discrete Math, Computer Science, Calculus). We have more than a couple of Math teachers in our high schools who have engineering degrees - not math.​

Just FYI.


>>>>

~But basically, you are saying what I am saying. People who teach in middle and high school, have degrees in a discipline, not a general degree in education. Only primary/elementary school teachers have degrees in 'education,' and they take a lot of courses in how the mind develops, etc. In childhood psychology, and so on. It is not a silly degree. Those who teach in middle school and high school study in their discipline and get a degree in their discipline with some education courses added to it, but they study essentially the same coursework as those who get a degree in that discipline. And all teachers, such as you give an example of, have a serious, full bachelor's degree. Your math teacher has an engineering degree, though he is teaching math. He has a degree in a specific discipline, not some vague, 'easy' and frivolous degree in 'education.' You can get a degree in one area and add to it other specific requirements to turn it into a teaching credential. Also, most teachers have a master's degree or the equivalent in course hours, and many, nowadays, have PhDs.

 

[CMike]

It must be awful having the entire summer off.

Also, getting all those benefits which most employees don't get must be horrible too.

 

[Esmeralda]

It must be awful having the entire summer off.

Also, getting all those benefits which most employees don't get must be horrible too.

So, if you think it is so wonderful and so easy and they get paid so well, why aren't you a teacher?

 

[WorldWatcher]

"They all know...." The thing is you don't know anything because you've never been to university. You haven't got a clue. Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them. Fool. The only teachers who have an 'education' degree that is not within a discipline are elementary teachers.

That's not quite true Esmeralda, you don't necessarily have to have a degree in a subject area to teach that area. As an example you don't have to have a Mathematics degree to teach mathematics. Since I live in Virginia, I'll use that state.

1. Now, you can graduate with a degree in that area and then take education courses for licensure.

2. However, you can graduate from an approved teacher prep program which specialists in math, in which case your degree is in education, not math.

3. You can graduate with another type of degree and still qualify to teach math if your coursework satisfies certain requirements. In Virginia they have to have 36 semester hours of math coursework (Algebra, Geometry, Analytic Geometry, Statistics, Discrete Math, Computer Science, Calculus). We have more than a couple of Math teachers in our high schools who have engineering degrees - not math.​

Just FYI.


>>>>

~But basically, you are saying what I am saying. People who teach in middle and high school, have degrees in a discipline, not a general degree in education. Only primary/elementary school teachers have degrees in 'education,' and they take a lot of courses in how the mind develops, etc. In childhood psychology, and so on. It is not a silly degree. Those who teach in middle school and high school study in their discipline and get a degree in their discipline with some education courses added to it, but they study essentially the same coursework as those who get a degree in that discipline. And most teachers, such as you give an example of, have a serious, full bachelor's degree. Your math teacher has an engineering degree, though he is teaching math. He had a degree in a specific discipline, not some vague, 'easy' and frivolous degree in 'education.' You can get a degree in one area and add to it other specific requirements to turn it into a teaching credential. Also, most teachers have a master's degree or the equivalent in course hours, and many, nowadays, have Ph.D.s.

Technically we're not saying quite the same thing. Your original statement was that teachers at the secondary levels have degrees in those fields. Not required, people can have education degrees and teach specialized subjects at the secondary level if they meet the other course requirements. It is not uncommon for someone to have a degree in education with a minor in a specialization field (math, history, science, etc) and therefore qualify to teach at the secondary level. Then of course there are - what we call - Career Switchers, people that have a degree in a different area - in this example, say Engineering - that will qualify for and receive a provisional license to teach while they complete the education requirements.

So no, the premise is slightly different then your original statement. You do not have to be degreed in the subject to teach it at the secondary level. You can have an education degree with sufficient course hours to teach that subject.


>>>>

 

[Esmeralda]

That's not quite true Esmeralda, you don't necessarily have to have a degree in a subject area to teach that area. As an example you don't have to have a Mathematics degree to teach mathematics. Since I live in Virginia, I'll use that state.

1. Now, you can graduate with a degree in that area and then take education courses for licensure.

2. However, you can graduate from an approved teacher prep program which specialists in math, in which case your degree is in education, not math.

3. You can graduate with another type of degree and still qualify to teach math if your coursework satisfies certain requirements. In Virginia they have to have 36 semester hours of math coursework (Algebra, Geometry, Analytic Geometry, Statistics, Discrete Math, Computer Science, Calculus). We have more than a couple of Math teachers in our high schools who have engineering degrees - not math.​

Just FYI.


>>>>

~But basically, you are saying what I am saying. People who teach in middle and high school, have degrees in a discipline, not a general degree in education. Only primary/elementary school teachers have degrees in 'education,' and they take a lot of courses in how the mind develops, etc. In childhood psychology, and so on. It is not a silly degree. Those who teach in middle school and high school study in their discipline and get a degree in their discipline with some education courses added to it, but they study essentially the same coursework as those who get a degree in that discipline. And most teachers, such as you give an example of, have a serious, full bachelor's degree. Your math teacher has an engineering degree, though he is teaching math. He had a degree in a specific discipline, not some vague, 'easy' and frivolous degree in 'education.' You can get a degree in one area and add to it other specific requirements to turn it into a teaching credential. Also, most teachers have a master's degree or the equivalent in course hours, and many, nowadays, have Ph.D.s.

Technically we're not saying quite the same thing. Your original statement was that teachers at the secondary levels have degrees in those fields. Not required, people can have education degrees and teach specialized subjects at the secondary level if they meet the other course requirements. It is not uncommon for someone to have a degree in education with a minor in a specialization field (math, history, science, etc) and therefore qualify to teach at the secondary level. Then of course there are - what we call - Career Switchers, people that have a degree in a different area - in this example, say Engineering - that will qualify for and receive a provisional license to teach while they complete the education requirements.

So no, the premise is slightly different then your original statement. You do not have to be degreed in the subject to teach it at the secondary level. You can have an education degree with sufficient course hours to teach that subject.


>>>>

There is no such thing for teachers in America at the secondary level to have a purely 'education' degree. There is no such thing. You must get it in a discipline, a degree in teaching a specific subject. Or, you can get a bachelors degree in a subject and add the necessary education courses and get a credential in that area. There is no such thing in secondary education as a vague, not specific degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist. Not in America.

You may be referring to teachers who have a degree in teaching one subject and add to it certain requirements so they can teach in other areas. But no secondary level teacher in America has a non-discipline related degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist.

 

[bodecea]

long hours? lol how many damn days do they get off? and wtf? whats so hard sitting in a room of rug rats for like 6 hours? its the liberal dream job and you get to teach them to be liberals so when they grow up they can vote for your unions and your pay check, how much more do they want?

Unfortunately they get to deal with the out of control brats they have created by taking away disipline in the school. Now the students run the show. I have a good friend who is a teacher. That is her main complaint...unruly and abusive children (with obnoxious parents).

and AGAiN those that do, well they just do, those that cant, well they just teach. I could handle those rug rats in a heart beat. but hey I am just a 47 year old guy that fixes molding machines and programs robotics.... move along nothing you can learn from since I dont have a english masters....

Those who can do, teach. Those who cannot do, pass laws telling teachers what to do.

 

[Esmeralda]

Unfortunately they get to deal with the out of control brats they have created by taking away disipline in the school. Now the students run the show. I have a good friend who is a teacher. That is her main complaint...unruly and abusive children (with obnoxious parents).

and AGAiN those that do, well they just do, those that cant, well they just teach. I could handle those rug rats in a heart beat. but hey I am just a 47 year old guy that fixes molding machines and programs robotics.... move along nothing you can learn from since I dont have a english masters....

Those who can do, teach. Those who cannot do, pass laws telling teachers what to do.

Or just endlessly denigrate them.

I could handle those rug rats in a heart beat

Absolutely baseless bravado.

Again, if it is such an easy job, with such great vacations, great money, great benefits, etc., and you don't need to be smart or work hard, then why don't all these people become teachers?

 

[WorldWatcher]

~But basically, you are saying what I am saying. People who teach in middle and high school, have degrees in a discipline, not a general degree in education. Only primary/elementary school teachers have degrees in 'education,' and they take a lot of courses in how the mind develops, etc. In childhood psychology, and so on. It is not a silly degree. Those who teach in middle school and high school study in their discipline and get a degree in their discipline with some education courses added to it, but they study essentially the same coursework as those who get a degree in that discipline. And most teachers, such as you give an example of, have a serious, full bachelor's degree. Your math teacher has an engineering degree, though he is teaching math. He had a degree in a specific discipline, not some vague, 'easy' and frivolous degree in 'education.' You can get a degree in one area and add to it other specific requirements to turn it into a teaching credential. Also, most teachers have a master's degree or the equivalent in course hours, and many, nowadays, have Ph.D.s.

Technically we're not saying quite the same thing. Your original statement was that teachers at the secondary levels have degrees in those fields. Not required, people can have education degrees and teach specialized subjects at the secondary level if they meet the other course requirements. It is not uncommon for someone to have a degree in education with a minor in a specialization field (math, history, science, etc) and therefore qualify to teach at the secondary level. Then of course there are - what we call - Career Switchers, people that have a degree in a different area - in this example, say Engineering - that will qualify for and receive a provisional license to teach while they complete the education requirements.

So no, the premise is slightly different then your original statement. You do not have to be degreed in the subject to teach it at the secondary level. You can have an education degree with sufficient course hours to teach that subject.


>>>>

There is no such thing for teachers in America at the secondary level to have a purely 'education' degree. There is no such thing.

Sure there is.

Please, I work in the Human Resources office of a school system and work with teacher licensure issues. We have many teachers at the secondary level with "education" degrees who have completed the number of coursework hours to then specialize in a subject at the secondary level. (In addition to taking required PRAXIS tests in the specialty area.)

You must get it in a discipline, a degree in teaching a specific subject. Or, you can get a bachelors degree in a subject and add the necessary education courses and get a credential in that area.

Or you can get a degree in another subject, and add the required coursework to meet the state requirements for that subject.

Here is the link to the Virginia Teacher Requirements -->> http://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching/licensure/licensure_regs.pdf

If we look at Math you have (emphasis mine):

8VAC20-22-430. Mathematics.
Endorsement requirements. The candidate must have:

1. Graduated from an approved teacher preparation program in mathematics; or

2. Completed a major in mathematics or 36 semester hours of coursework
distributed in each of the
following areas:​

Teacher preparation programs are a degree in education. To qualify for the math endorsement you have to have completed the prescribed coursework in math, but the degree can still be in education. Or you can get a degree in math, and complete education coursework.

Either way works.

There is no such thing in secondary education as a vague, not specific degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist. Not in America.

Sure there is, although they are not "vague", they can be education degrees through a specific teacher prep program.

When I was looking at retiring from the Navy I was going to be a Tech Ed teacher at a Middle School. I completed a Teacher Prep program through the local state University to become a Secondary School Technology Education Teacher. The program was through the Universities Education College, the degree was awarded as a Bachelor's of Science in Education with a specialty in Technology Education. That degree, as part of an approved teacher prep program, qualified me to teach Tech Ed at the secondary level, yet it was still and "education" degree. It did not come from the College of Engineering and Sciences.

You may be referring to teachers who have a degree in teaching one subject and add to it certain requirements so they can teach in other areas. But no secondary level teacher in America has a non-discipline related degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist.

Same thing.

A teacher can have a degree in Elementary Education (Pre-K to 6), complete the additional coursework and get a math endorsement. Then can then have a job as a Math Teacher at the secondary level without a math degree. I can get a degree in Political Science, complete 36 hours of math (either as part of the original degree or as later work) and the education classes and become a licensed teacher with an endorsement in Math. In that case I'd have a BS in Political Science and then be teaching Math.


****************************************

Bottom line is there are two methods to teaching at the secondary level.

1. Get a degree in the subject, then take additional education coursework. A math major can take education courses and teach math.

2. Get a degree in **other than the subject**, then take additional coursework in the subject (if not already met by the degree requirements of the originating degree). An education major, who also completes the math coursework can teach math. An Engineering major (most likely) will have enough math coursework, that they would only need a few education courses. Either way the individual ends up teaching Math at the secondary level.


******************************************************

P.S. I just looked at 3 math teachers in one of our High Schools. Two have degrees in Math, one has a BS in Education and completed the coursework/testing for the Math endorsement. Therefore he has a degree in Education and teaches math at the secondary level.


>>>>

 

[Esmeralda]

Technically we're not saying quite the same thing. Your original statement was that teachers at the secondary levels have degrees in those fields. Not required, people can have education degrees and teach specialized subjects at the secondary level if they meet the other course requirements. It is not uncommon for someone to have a degree in education with a minor in a specialization field (math, history, science, etc) and therefore qualify to teach at the secondary level. Then of course there are - what we call - Career Switchers, people that have a degree in a different area - in this example, say Engineering - that will qualify for and receive a provisional license to teach while they complete the education requirements.

So no, the premise is slightly different then your original statement. You do not have to be degreed in the subject to teach it at the secondary level. You can have an education degree with sufficient course hours to teach that subject.


>>>>

There is no such thing for teachers in America at the secondary level to have a purely 'education' degree. There is no such thing.

Sure there is.

Please, I work in the Human Resources office of a school system and work with teacher licensure issues. We have many teachers at the secondary level with "education" degrees who have completed the number of coursework hours to then specialize in a subject at the secondary level. (In addition to taking required PRAXIS tests in the specialty area.)



Or you can get a degree in another subject, and add the required coursework to meet the state requirements for that subject.

Here is the link to the Virginia Teacher Requirements -->> http://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching/licensure/licensure_regs.pdf

If we look at Math you have (emphasis mine):

8VAC20-22-430. Mathematics.
Endorsement requirements. The candidate must have:

1. Graduated from an approved teacher preparation program in mathematics; or

2. Completed a major in mathematics or 36 semester hours of coursework
distributed in each of the
following areas:​

Teacher preparation programs are a degree in education. To qualify for the math endorsement you have to have completed the prescribed coursework in math, but the degree can still be in education. Or you can get a degree in math, and complete education coursework.

Either way works.

There is no such thing in secondary education as a vague, not specific degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist. Not in America.

Sure there is, although they are not "vague", they can be education degrees through a specific teacher prep program.

When I was looking at retiring from the Navy I was going to be a Tech Ed teacher at a Middle School. I completed a Teacher Prep program through the local state University to become a Secondary School Technology Education Teacher. The program was through the Universities Education College, the degree was awarded as a Bachelor's of Science in Education with a specialty in Technology Education. That degree, as part of an approved teacher prep program, qualified me to teach Tech Ed at the secondary level, yet it was still and "education" degree. It did not come from the College of Engineering and Sciences.

You may be referring to teachers who have a degree in teaching one subject and add to it certain requirements so they can teach in other areas. But no secondary level teacher in America has a non-discipline related degree in 'education.' It doesn't exist.

Same thing.

A teacher can have a degree in Elementary Education (Pre-K to 6), complete the additional coursework and get a math endorsement. Then can then have a job as a Math Teacher at the secondary level without a math degree. I can get a degree in Political Science, complete 36 hours of math (either as part of the original degree or as later work) and the education classes and become a licensed teacher with an endorsement in Math. In that case I'd have a BS in Political Science and then be teaching Math.


****************************************

Bottom line is there are two methods to teaching at the secondary level.

1. Get a degree in the subject, then take additional education coursework. A math major can take education courses and teach math.

2. Get a degree in **other than the subject**, then take additional coursework in the subject (if not already met by the degree requirements of the originating degree). An education major, who also completes the math coursework can teach math. An Engineering major (most likely) will have enough math coursework, that they would only need a few education courses. Either way the individual ends up teaching Math at the secondary level.


******************************************************

P.S. I just looked at 3 math teachers in one of our High Schools. Two have degrees in Math, one has a BS in Education and completed the coursework/testing for the Math endorsement. Therefore he has a degree in Education and teaches math at the secondary level.


>>>>

The thing is you don't really understand it. There is no way someone goes into a university to sign up for a program in secondary education without specifiying a discipline or subject or content area. No one gets a degree in just education at the secondary level. You are confused by the language and the terms endorsement and necessary course requirements. It all means that a person gets a degree in the subject area which includes coursework in education, not the other way around. The bulk of your course work is in the subject area, not in education courses. The person who has a BS in Education with a math endorcement I can assure you has taken far more courses in math than in education. Secondary teachers who have a degree that says education with an endorcesment in a subject area take virtually the same courses in that subject area as those who get a degree in that subject area. If they didn't, they would be unfit to teach the subject area. The diplomas may have different wording, but the course of study is virtually the same except that those who did not study in a program that included education courses but want to teach have to then take more courses in order to become teachers.

There is no way you walk into an university and say you want to get an 'education degree' at the secondary level without linking it to a specific discipline. Your can take some education courses, but you must do the course work in a specific field to get a degree. There is no four year degree at the secondary level in just 'education' by itself. It does not exist.

Here is where you are confused: " An education major, who also completes the math coursework..." There is no such thing as an education major in secondary education whose program of study is not already linked to some discipline for which he will be endorsed to teach. There is no such thing at the secondary level and a non-specific 'education major.' You have to link it to a discipline from the beginning. Completing the coursework only means he will not get his degree, not one of any kind, if he doesn't do the coursework in the specific discipline. There is no non-specific 4 year education degree in secondary education.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The thing is you don't really understand it. There is no way someone goes into a university to sign up for a program in secondary education without specifiying a discipline or subject or content area. No one gets a degree in just education at the secondary level. You are confused by the language and the terms endorsement and necessary course requirements. It all means that a person gets a degree in the subject area which includes coursework in education, not the other way around. The bulk of your course work is in the subject area, not in education courses. The person who has a BS in Education with a math endorcement I can assure you has taken far more courses in math than in education. Secondary teachers who have a degree that says education with an endorcesment in a subject area take virtually the same courses in that subject area as those who get a degree in that subject area. If they didn't, they would be unfit to teach the subject area. The diplomas may have different wording, but the course of study is virtually the same except that those who did not study in a program that included education courses but want to teach have to then take more courses in order to become teachers.

There is no way you walk into an university and say you want to get an 'education degree' at the secondary level without linking it to a specific discipline. Your can take some education courses, but you must do the course work in a specific field to get a degree. There is no four year degree at the secondary level in just 'education' by itself. It does not exist.

That's not what you said, and not what I was responding to.

You said this:

Do you not realize that teachers have degrees in those fields in addition to their education credentials? You don't teach in any of those disciplines without getting a degree in them.

It appears that you are attempting to move the goalposts.

What an individual goes to school for, and what the requirements to be a teacher are, are two different things.

You made the claim that teachers have to have degrees in their field (the subject they are teaching) to be able to teach in that field. That is a false statement, I've provided (as an example) the requirements to teach math in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

You (general "you" here) DO NOT have to have a degree in Mathematics to teach Mathematics at the secondary level. You can have any degree from an accredited institution (in any subject including "Education"). If that degree program did not include the required math coursework, or if you have not completed the required coursework as part of continuing education - then you can't get a teaching license (for math). On the other hand if you do have a non-subject degree, and either completed the required coursework or have taken the coursework as part of continuing education - you can get a license to teach (for math).


Again, it's not what degree program you attended in school that matters. It is not what the "degree is in" that matters. You can have any degree as long as it (or later coursework) meets the minimum requirements.


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