Why do so many teachers leave the profession?

[Skull Pilot]

Skull, you really have no idea of what you are talking about.

Call the HS counselor. Make an appointment to shadow an instructor for an entire day. Do something like Spec Ed, Theatre, or Math.

OH teaching theater now that's hard work.

Cut the crap. Nothing about teaching basic HS courses is difficult. The fucking material hasn't changed since my grandparents were in school.

Tell me how much as US history, basic English grammar, and algebra changed in the past 100 years.

If a teacher can't get his work done in an 8 hour day then that's his problem. Anyway most professionals I know plan to work at least 50 hours a week for their salary and they have to work all year long not just 3/4 of the year.

as usual there is more to it than that.

teachers now must track progress using charts and graphs. grades are no longer good enough.
when half the class is sped there are dozens of students with 10 accomodations each.mmaccomodations. teachers are no longer able to discipline students. sometimes the curriculum changes and you must start from scratch using a new approach. ever try fractiion rap?and if the lazy and stupid kid does not get it, who gets the blame?

in rality most students don't need albrabantway. vocational training is more appropriate. but parents insist their little Einstein will be a brain surgeon in spite of an IQ of 85 and the ambition of a sloth.

OOOOH charts and graphs you mean like the kind you can do on a computer in a few seconds

The horror.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't know how it is in Skulls state, but my sister in law, who is a public school teacher, works 10 hour days. And no, she doesn't have time to just hang around during school hours like skull thinks.

Yeah sure. So if the classes only run about 6 hours a day and the teachers don't teach every period what are they doing for those other 4 or 5 hours?

I don't buy it. You all put these people on a pedestal but in reality they don't work full time and they don't work that hard.

Really how hard is it to teach US history, or geometry, or English Comp for years on end? Nothing changes.

try teaching special ed where you teach several subjects to several different ability levels, change diapers, get spit on and hit and get blamed by the parents for their 35 IQ child's lack of progress

Poor baby.

 

[squeeze berry]

OH teaching theater now that's hard work.

Cut the crap. Nothing about teaching basic HS courses is difficult. The fucking material hasn't changed since my grandparents were in school.

Tell me how much as US history, basic English grammar, and algebra changed in the past 100 years.

If a teacher can't get his work done in an 8 hour day then that's his problem. Anyway most professionals I know plan to work at least 50 hours a week for their salary and they have to work all year long not just 3/4 of the year.

as usual there is more to it than that.

teachers now must track progress using charts and graphs. grades are no longer good enough.
when half the class is sped there are dozens of students with 10 accomodations each.mmaccomodations. teachers are no longer able to discipline students. sometimes the curriculum changes and you must start from scratch using a new approach. ever try fractiion rap?and if the lazy and stupid kid does not get it, who gets the blame?

in rality most students don't need albrabantway. vocational training is more appropriate. but parents insist their little Einstein will be a brain surgeon in spite of an IQ of 85 and the ambition of a sloth.

OOOOH charts and graphs you mean like the kind you can do on a computer in a few seconds

The horror.

skullfuck,

it takes longer than that. You need to enter the data fort multiple children.

 

[squeeze berry]

Yeah sure. So if the classes only run about 6 hours a day and the teachers don't teach every period what are they doing for those other 4 or 5 hours?

I don't buy it. You all put these people on a pedestal but in reality they don't work full time and they don't work that hard.

Really how hard is it to teach US history, or geometry, or English Comp for years on end? Nothing changes.

try teaching special ed where you teach several subjects to several different ability levels, change diapers, get spit on and hit and get blamed by the parents for their 35 IQ child's lack of progress

Poor baby.

grow up

 

[squeeze berry]

You're in the wrong profession.

We have a good crop of teachers in our charter schools now...people who want to teach, who are happy to be pulling in a paycheck...who aren't under the thumb of the unions......eventually I see a purge taking place across the board. Then maybe I won't have to deal with idiots who don't know what the word *recent* means....

why can't teachers try to get as much as they can in compensation?

professional athletes, doctors, plumbers etc do it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

as usual there is more to it than that.

teachers now must track progress using charts and graphs. grades are no longer good enough.
when half the class is sped there are dozens of students with 10 accomodations each.mmaccomodations. teachers are no longer able to discipline students. sometimes the curriculum changes and you must start from scratch using a new approach. ever try fractiion rap?and if the lazy and stupid kid does not get it, who gets the blame?

in rality most students don't need albrabantway. vocational training is more appropriate. but parents insist their little Einstein will be a brain surgeon in spite of an IQ of 85 and the ambition of a sloth.

OOOOH charts and graphs you mean like the kind you can do on a computer in a few seconds

The horror.

skullfuck,

it takes longer than that. You need to enter the data fort multiple children.

They need to record the data anyway so what's the big deal record it in a grade book or on a spread sheet.

My god you are a fountain of fucking excuses aren't you?

 

[squeeze berry]

OOOOH charts and graphs you mean like the kind you can do on a computer in a few seconds

The horror.

skullfuck,

it takes longer than that. You need to enter the data fort multiple children.

They need to record the data anyway so what's the big deal record it in a grade book or on a spread sheet.

My god you are a fountain of fucking excuses aren't you?

facts are not excuses

the ponit is that it's not the piece of cake you portray. Have you ever done it?

 

[Samson]

Yeah sure. So if the classes only run about 6 hours a day and the teachers don't teach every period what are they doing for those other 4 or 5 hours?

I don't buy it. You all put these people on a pedestal but in reality they don't work full time and they don't work that hard.

Really how hard is it to teach US history, or geometry, or English Comp for years on end? Nothing changes.

Correct.

I can see maybe a first-year, or even a second year teacher strugging with time management, unable to complete tasks during regular school hours. Even I, on very VERY few occasions, would bring stuff home to grade.

Now, there is the case where a teacher will VOLUNTEER to work longer hours: take the Theatre Teacher for example; rehearsals, set design, coaching debate, etc., are often done AFTER school. Sometimes a small stipend is offered, but most teachers WANT to do this stuff. Once you volunteer, then bitching about the extra hours is irrelevant.

You are wrong, most times those types of positions a Music Teacher, Chorus Teacher, Theater Teacher - the performance of after school functions (rehearsals and performances) are not VOLUNTEER they are an integral portion of the job requirements, they are required (for the example of music, chorus, and theater). Apply for the job as a High School Music Teacher and tell the Principal that you refuse to have a band as part of the school program.

See if you get the job.


>>>>

No you are wrong.

I said there are cases that teachers volunteer for after hours duty, I did not say this was ALWAYS the case.

It is true that if you're applying for a Band Leader Job, or Coaching position, then you are expected to work longer hours, and then you are compensated. The Theatre Teacher whose example I gave, like many other teachers who have "extracurricular" responsibilities, has a lot of flexibility in scheduling their hours, and will often CHOOSE to schedule extra hours for which they KNOW they will not be compensated.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Samson is correct, of course. So many of our teachers were involved after hours without compensation.

Teachers not only teach, but 99% of them would succeed at whatever they were tasked.

 

[Samson]

Yeah sure. So if the classes only run about 6 hours a day and the teachers don't teach every period what are they doing for those other 4 or 5 hours?

I don't buy it. You all put these people on a pedestal but in reality they don't work full time and they don't work that hard.

Really how hard is it to teach US history, or geometry, or English Comp for years on end? Nothing changes.

try teaching special ed where you teach several subjects to several different ability levels, change diapers, get spit on and hit and get blamed by the parents for their 35 IQ child's lack of progress

Poor baby.

Thanks to Federal Mandates that even Vegetables need an Education, someone with this job has job security like few enjoy on the face of the planet.

 

[Samson]

So if the classes only run about 6 hours a day...

In CT there are 180 days of school.

You're in the wrong profession.

We have a good crop of teachers in our charter schools now...people who want to teach, who are happy to be pulling in a paycheck...who aren't under the thumb of the unions......eventually I see a purge taking place across the board. Then maybe I won't have to deal with idiots who don't know what the word *recent* means....

So KG,


Do you think those "good crop of teachers" work only 6 hours per day 180 days per year? That the only time this good crop of teachers "work" is when students are in the classroom?


>>>>

Why not?

You seem focused on QUANTITY of time someone spends doing any job.

Doesn't QUALITY of time count toward teaching?

Hell, I could walk into a class and show the same fucking movie for 8 hours during the day,
or I could teach a very focused lesson, test to see if the information was transferred, grade the test, and retest if necessary, or move on.

Quantity of time is finite, but is not necessarily the only measure, or even the best measurement of anyone's ability to get the job done.

 

[Samson]

Yeah sure. So if the classes only run about 6 hours a day and the teachers don't teach every period what are they doing for those other 4 or 5 hours?

I don't buy it. You all put these people on a pedestal but in reality they don't work full time and they don't work that hard.

Really how hard is it to teach US history, or geometry, or English Comp for years on end? Nothing changes.

You think teachers teach 1 class, once a day?

where did I say that?

Algebra 2 hasn't changed in 100 years either so teaching that, algebra 1 and geometry shouldn't be too tough

You are right. I've done it, and it is easy.

Most teachers who make teaching hard, bring woe upon themselves. Once you can deal with Other Adults (Parents, other teachers, administrators) the largest problems are resolved.

If anyone wants to know the secret of dealing with this group, I'll summarize with one word: DOCUMENTATION.

Sadly, most teachers are teachers, because they were not the sharpest tools in the shed, and as a result do not possess nearly the mental capacity necessary to optimize a method to document practically every activity they plan to have, nor every activity they have performed. Often you will see these teachers ENFORCING THE RULES. They make up rules as they go along. LOTS of RULES. Then they wonder why everyone is confused by their RULES.

A classroom needs about 5 rules, max. They need to be Writ Large on each wall. They need to be simple, and consistantly enforced, with infractions simply documented on a form with four (4) lines 1. Pupil's Name 2. Date 3. Infraction 4. PHONE NUMBER (have the pupil give this).

Assuming the student gives you the correct number, you call it, and report the infraction to the parent, advising them of the discipline ladder which will require they eventually meet with you, or be inconvenienced to pick their kid up from school, or both.

Obviously, given the wrong number, you'll need to look it up, call, and add giving false information to the infraction.

The whole process takes less than a minute. During September, it happens with some frequency, but by October you have enough documentation to have the most frequent offenders removed from your class most days. Often an administrator will helpfully move the most undesireable student to another teacher's room, where their behavior will not be well documented, thus giving the administrator an excuse to ignore pleas for help.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skullfuck,

it takes longer than that. You need to enter the data fort multiple children.

They need to record the data anyway so what's the big deal record it in a grade book or on a spread sheet.

My god you are a fountain of fucking excuses aren't you?

facts are not excuses

the ponit is that it's not the piece of cake you portray. Have you ever done it?

I have certainly prepared charts and graphs for multiple items and I sure as shit couldn't whine about it to my boss and still have kept the account.

And sorry but teachers, like most people these days think what they do is soooooo hard and soooooo important.

If you want to teach then fine just quit the fucking whining already.

You're not doing anything that hasn't been done before.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Hell, I could walk into a class and show the same fucking movie for 8 hours during the day,

No you couldn't, in my division you would be fired for dereliction of duty (i.e. for cause). You could appeal the termination, but you'd loose and during the review process you would be on leave without pay.

or I could teach a very focused lesson, test to see if the information was transferred, grade the test, and retest if necessary, or move on.

If teachers only "work" when there are students in the classroom...

1. When are you going to research the material?

2. When are you going to develop the teaching materials?

3. When are you going to write the tests?

4. When are you going to grade the tests?

5. When are you going to input the results into the student information tracking system?

Quantity of time is finite, but is not necessarily the only measure, or even the best measurement of anyone's ability to get the job done.

Nor is saying that teachers only "work" during the time when students are in the classroom a measure of the quality of the job performed.

Teachers work more than 6 hours per day, 180 days per year when the students are in the seats.


>>>>

 

[AmyNation]

There is also the fact that many teachers have to spend their own moneny to supply their students with the necessities. My SIL starts the year buying notebooks, folders, pens/pencils, paper , for 150 students, on top of all the supplies she needs to teach with.

 

[koshergrl]

She chooses to do it. She isn't obligated to.

You guys have trouble with comprehension when it comes to "choice", dontcha now...

 

[AmyNation]

She chooses to do it, because she cant teach students who dont have the proper supplies. I didnt forget its a choice she makes, im pointing out that there is more to being a teacher then some here seem to think.

 

[koshergrl]

If she can't teach students without those supplies then she needs to adjust her curriculum.

Or quit. Like I said, she made a choice.

Progressives are all about making crap choices...then expecting someone else to foot the bill.

 

[AmyNation]

I cant and wont speak for every community or every teacher. However i have nothing but total admiration for my SIL. She works long hours, spends endless amounts of time in and out of the classroom dealing with students in an inner city classroom setting. Shes been hit, spit on, had her car stolen and her classroom trashed. And if you question her, why she doesn't look for a better position, in a different district, she will give you a puzzled look and tell you that she loves her job, and that the students who try make the whole situation worth it.

That has been my experience with teachers.

 

[AmyNation]

Oh stuff it KG.

Go take your evil progressive narrative elsewhere. You aren't even trying to stay on the topic of the thread.