Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century?

[jasonnfree]

They didn't need the slave trade any more
They had breeding programs to get all the slaves they wanted. Home grown slaves were easier to deal with than Kunta Kinte

There were over 4 million slaves in 1860. Didn't look like banning imports made any impact

But now you are abandoning your argument and changing to another one you like better. I can't let you do that in the middle of a debate. You argued they ducked the issue, now you're admitting they didn't duck the issue but what they did was superficial and didn't matter much. Again, they did what they were able to do at that time. They could not ban slavery! That wasn't going to happen. Had they attempted to do this with the Constitution, it would have never been ratified.

And let me clarify something so you don't go getting the wrong idea. I hate when people twist something I say into something they want to hear and disregard my point. I am not saying that the founders banning slave trade was some glorious achievement they should be commended and praised for. I merely stated that, at that time, it was significantly bold to do that. They didn't HAVE to... there wasn't any real pressure from anyone. It was simply a matter of consciousness. Slavery is an affront to Liberty.

My argument has been that they didn't "duck the issue" as you claimed. They addressed it the best way they could at the time. They couldn't resolve it but they left the tools and language to resolve it for future generations.

OK....lets go back to the original issue then

They not only ducked the issue....they sold out
With key founders owning slaves, what do you expect?
No they didn't address it. They had other priorities and "all men are created equal" was not one of them

By selling out, they set us up for a war four score and seven years later.

Again, that is a purely revisionist idea of what went down. People who grew cotton, tobacco and sugar cane owned slaves because that was how it was harvested. There was no other option. It's not selling out when there isn't another option.

And AGAIN... they DID address it, as I pointed out, which you acknowledged but are now ignoring and pretending it wasn't a point I made. They addressed slavery as best they could at the time. They outlawed slave trade and put the language in the Constitution to enable freedom of slaves when the time came. Even Frederick Douglass recognized their brilliance in that. Why are YOU having a problem?

The War wasn't the fault of the founders, it was the result of the courts and congress FAILING to do the right thing when the time came. They failed and we had war. Furthermore, the war didn't end slavery! It took a Constitutional Amendment to do that. Why couldn't that have been done BEFORE the war? No reason... it just wasn't.

Yes it is selling out
If you can't make a profit without resorting to slave labor you do not belong in business
Banning the importation of africans did nothing to end slavery
The slave population increased after the ban

No, it's not selling out when there isn't another option. Did you miss that part?

This was an issue about reality of the day, not some future social justice crusade. Slaves were how cotton, tobacco and sugar cane were harvested. That was real. That was reality. They could have never ratified a Constitution that banned slavery. No one in their right mind would have supported it because the ENTIRE economy depended on it. It's not like there were SOME people who had vibrant industries that didn't have a thing to do with slavery who could've filled the void. Just about EVERY business or industry of the time was either directly or indirectly tied to slave labor in the South.

You can take this bold moral stand now and say "if you can't make a profit without resorting to slave labor you do not belong in business" but it wasn't "resorting to" ...it was how this was done, there wasn't another option. It's pure insanity to believe you could've eliminated your top 4 exports and it wouldn't have completely tanked your economy. It's even more insane to think people of the day would've willingly adopted such a crazy idea. As bad as slavery was, it had to be retained, there wasn't another option. You can parade around on your moral high horse and pretend a fantasy is reality, but you just look really silly and ignorant of history.

Agreed. We're all aware that a lot of the things we buy are being manufactured by people working in third world sweat shops. Doesn't stop us from buying them. Probably Matthew is the only one who doesn't descend to our level. He buys only union made in USA, I'm certain.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century? That was a time when we as a nation committed very little towards investment within our borders, very little laws or rules to protect the workers, life was far harder then today and I honestly believe the world of the time was so alien to the concepts of modern 20th and 21st century that America would be transformed into a very poor, backwards and violent society if we attempted it. It would be a outright suicide of the most advance nation on earth in many measures and a true lost to all of humanity.

Government expanded because it had too, just like every other modern state due to civilized people wanting infrastructure, wanting education for their children, clean air, water and food and a ever better standard of living. For one to argue that the 18th century was superior is the height of insanity within my mind, but that is exactly what extreme conservatism is bitching for. So you'd rather put your trust in the same corporations that pollute the environment in india then to have the government fine the bastards and give them a good reason to stop??? So you'd rather businesses have the power to refuse payment to work or set up sweat shops while you smile and say get a job. WTF is wrong with you? I say this because it could be you or your children that has little choice for employment! Why make life worse for yourself?


I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

I wish for a return to the 18th century. I would then challenge you to a duel and put you out of your misery. Thus ending the misery you inflect on others.

So you're running for vice president?

 

[Avatar4321]

The regressives are arguing among themselves about slavery and civil rights.

That way they feel good and largely ignore those issues for real

 

[Avatar4321]

Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century? That was a time when we as a nation committed very little towards investment within our borders, very little laws or rules to protect the workers, life was far harder then today and I honestly believe the world of the time was so alien to the concepts of modern 20th and 21st century that America would be transformed into a very poor, backwards and violent society if we attempted it. It would be a outright suicide of the most advance nation on earth in many measures and a true lost to all of humanity.

Government expanded because it had too, just like every other modern state due to civilized people wanting infrastructure, wanting education for their children, clean air, water and food and a ever better standard of living. For one to argue that the 18th century was superior is the height of insanity within my mind, but that is exactly what extreme conservatism is bitching for. So you'd rather put your trust in the same corporations that pollute the environment in india then to have the government fine the bastards and give them a good reason to stop??? So you'd rather businesses have the power to refuse payment to work or set up sweat shops while you smile and say get a job. WTF is wrong with you? I say this because it could be you or your children that has little choice for employment! Why make life worse for yourself?


I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

Do we get our slaves back? (I had to, sorry)

You had slaves?

 

[Votto]

Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century? That was a time when we as a nation committed very little towards investment within our borders, very little laws or rules to protect the workers, life was far harder then today and I honestly believe the world of the time was so alien to the concepts of modern 20th and 21st century that America would be transformed into a very poor, backwards and violent society if we attempted it. It would be a outright suicide of the most advance nation on earth in many measures and a true lost to all of humanity.

Government expanded because it had too, just like every other modern state due to civilized people wanting infrastructure, wanting education for their children, clean air, water and food and a ever better standard of living. For one to argue that the 18th century was superior is the height of insanity within my mind, but that is exactly what extreme conservatism is bitching for. So you'd rather put your trust in the same corporations that pollute the environment in india then to have the government fine the bastards and give them a good reason to stop??? So you'd rather businesses have the power to refuse payment to work or set up sweat shops while you smile and say get a job. WTF is wrong with you? I say this because it could be you or your children that has little choice for employment! Why make life worse for yourself?


I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

Wait.....wut?

We are told every day by the left to stop driving our cars, stop heating and cooling our homes, and stop passing as much gas. There are too many people in the world and we are cutting down too many trees and there is too much pollution in the world.

I think it would suit you fine if we just all moved back into caves. At least the 1800's beats the Stone Age that Dims long for once again

 

[Avatar4321]

in answer to your question in the o/p......angry, uneducated, uninformed white Christian trash want to go back to when white Christian males ran the world. they don't like not being able to tell women and people of color what to do. and they certainly don't like people who won't let them enact their religion into legislation.

A perfect example of a perfect bigot.

The irony being that there is nobody more angry and more uninformed with a greater desire to control everyone else's life than jillian. She described herself to a "T" except for the religion.

For so many now, government is their religion. I'm starting to understand why so many ancient rulers believed themselves to be gods.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Maxine waters a god ??? Lmfao

 

[Avatar4321]

Humanity would still be in africa and throwing rocks at each other if it was up to you parasitic conservatives....The innovators, thinkers and explorers are the ones that gave you this internet, easy life and food a plenty.

Conservatives the world over are bad. ISIS, Taliban and tribal groups are the conservatives in other parts of the world and cultures...

Al Gore is an explorer? Thinker? Innovator?

 

[Avatar4321]

Look at the savages! They're conservative! They hate change, they hate computers, they hate government and they probably hate anyone that is different.

Funny because we are the ones trying to change government.

 

[Avatar4321]

Rightwinger,

Sharia law is a conservative muslim law! More conservationism....

Bad shit!

It has nothing to do with this country despite fear mongering from "Patriot"

and it has nothing to do with conservatism
and Matthew thinks it has to do with conservationism

just more proof that he doesn't know shit from Shinola

No.....it has to do with racist assholes who tend to flock to conservatism

yeah because a liberal can't be a racist

you really are a blind sheep

The Deplorables elected Trump

Well they aren't as corrupt and racist as you Dems are I guess

 

[Avatar4321]

The Constitution ducked the issue and it ended up costing us 600,000 lives to fix the problem

I disagree. It didn't duck the issue, it couldn't resolve the issue. With the overwhelming majority of America involved either directly or indirectly in some way with agriculture/slavery, do you think the Constitution would have ever been ratified if it banned slavery?

Now, they DID ban slave trade. You could no longer go down to Charleston and buy a slave fresh off the boat. That ended with the Constitution. This is fairly significant given the importance of slaves to the plantations at the time. The fact they did accomplish this much is a complete refutation of the argument they ducked the issue.

In addition, they worded the Constitution and preamble so that it became a righteous sword for future abolitionists. They knew that the day would come when the people would be ready to end slavery and liberate those in shackles. They gave them the tools to do that when the time came.

Of course, when that time came, justices on the courts ruled slaves were property. It was upon that ruling we had a splitting of opinions across America and suddenly, abolition became a social issue versus a state's rights issue. This is what prompted the war. It was the failure of the courts and congress to find a resolution.

They didn't need the slave trade any more
They had breeding programs to get all the slaves they wanted. Home grown slaves were easier to deal with than Kunta Kinte

There were over 4 million slaves in 1860. Didn't look like banning imports made any impact

But now you are abandoning your argument and changing to another one you like better. I can't let you do that in the middle of a debate. You argued they ducked the issue, now you're admitting they didn't duck the issue but what they did was superficial and didn't matter much. Again, they did what they were able to do at that time. They could not ban slavery! That wasn't going to happen. Had they attempted to do this with the Constitution, it would have never been ratified.

And let me clarify something so you don't go getting the wrong idea. I hate when people twist something I say into something they want to hear and disregard my point. I am not saying that the founders banning slave trade was some glorious achievement they should be commended and praised for. I merely stated that, at that time, it was significantly bold to do that. They didn't HAVE to... there wasn't any real pressure from anyone. It was simply a matter of consciousness. Slavery is an affront to Liberty.

My argument has been that they didn't "duck the issue" as you claimed. They addressed it the best way they could at the time. They couldn't resolve it but they left the tools and language to resolve it for future generations.

OK....lets go back to the original issue then

They not only ducked the issue....they sold out
With key founders owning slaves, what do you expect?
No they didn't address it. They had other priorities and "all men are created equal" was not one of them

By selling out, they set us up for a war four score and seven years later.

Again, that is a purely revisionist idea of what went down. People who grew cotton, tobacco and sugar cane owned slaves because that was how it was harvested. There was no other option. It's not selling out when there isn't another option.

And AGAIN... they DID address it, as I pointed out, which you acknowledged but are now ignoring and pretending it wasn't a point I made. They addressed slavery as best they could at the time. They outlawed slave trade and put the language in the Constitution to enable freedom of slaves when the time came. Even Frederick Douglass recognized their brilliance in that. Why are YOU having a problem?

The War wasn't the fault of the founders, it was the result of the courts and congress FAILING to do the right thing when the time came. They failed and we had war. Furthermore, the war didn't end slavery! It took a Constitutional Amendment to do that. Why couldn't that have been done BEFORE the war? No reason... it just wasn't.

They could have done it easily too. Use eminent domain to purchase and free the slaves. Funded by the sale of land in the west.

Would have been cheaper in money and blood than the war was

 

[Avatar4321]

It has nothing to do with this country despite fear mongering from "Patriot"

and it has nothing to do with conservatism
and Matthew thinks it has to do with conservationism

just more proof that he doesn't know shit from Shinola

No.....it has to do with racist assholes who tend to flock to conservatism

yeah because a liberal can't be a racist

you really are a blind sheep

The Deplorables elected Trump

so what?
what does that say about the quality of the people we elect for president?

My god Trump? Shillary would have been no better
Sanders would have been no better
None of the republican candidates would have been any better

and you wonder why I didn't vote

I think Cruz would be doing much better, but we may never know

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century? That was a time when we as a nation committed very little towards investment within our borders, very little laws or rules to protect the workers, life was far harder then today and I honestly believe the world of the time was so alien to the concepts of modern 20th and 21st century that America would be transformed into a very poor, backwards and violent society if we attempted it. It would be a outright suicide of the most advance nation on earth in many measures and a true lost to all of humanity.

Government expanded because it had too, just like every other modern state due to civilized people wanting infrastructure, wanting education for their children, clean air, water and food and a ever better standard of living. For one to argue that the 18th century was superior is the height of insanity within my mind, but that is exactly what extreme conservatism is bitching for. So you'd rather put your trust in the same corporations that pollute the environment in india then to have the government fine the bastards and give them a good reason to stop??? So you'd rather businesses have the power to refuse payment to work or set up sweat shops while you smile and say get a job. WTF is wrong with you? I say this because it could be you or your children that has little choice for employment! Why make life worse for yourself?


I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

Somebody doesn't agree with something you said and then you think this means they want to live in the 1700's and own slaves?? were you a difficult child growing up? I'm just trying to figure out the deeper meaning to your OP because it's not making much sense.

This is the same retard that keeps demand infrastructure jobs from Trump but had nothing to say when Obama lied about his supposed work.

 

[Votto]

in answer to your question in the o/p......angry, uneducated, uninformed white Christian trash want to go back to when white Christian males ran the world. they don't like not being able to tell women and people of color what to do. and they certainly don't like people who won't let them enact their religion into legislation.

A perfect example of a perfect bigot.

The irony being that there is nobody more angry and more uninformed with a greater desire to control everyone else's life than jillian. She described herself to a "T" except for the religion.

For so many now, government is their religion. I'm starting to understand why so many ancient rulers believed themselves to be gods.

It used to be that rulers declared themselves a god. Then when that no longer worked, they declared that they spoke for god. Then when that no longer worked, they declared that there was no God, making themselves the ultimate authority as if they were a god once again.

I reckon with Islam, we will go backwards again, just as the entire culture and religion is backwards.

 

[Reasonable]

The Trump whores wants America to return to the period of time when blacks knew their place and when they didn't... they'd be the main event at the weekly Klan lynching.

 

[rightwinger]

They didn't need the slave trade any more
They had breeding programs to get all the slaves they wanted. Home grown slaves were easier to deal with than Kunta Kinte

There were over 4 million slaves in 1860. Didn't look like banning imports made any impact

But now you are abandoning your argument and changing to another one you like better. I can't let you do that in the middle of a debate. You argued they ducked the issue, now you're admitting they didn't duck the issue but what they did was superficial and didn't matter much. Again, they did what they were able to do at that time. They could not ban slavery! That wasn't going to happen. Had they attempted to do this with the Constitution, it would have never been ratified.

And let me clarify something so you don't go getting the wrong idea. I hate when people twist something I say into something they want to hear and disregard my point. I am not saying that the founders banning slave trade was some glorious achievement they should be commended and praised for. I merely stated that, at that time, it was significantly bold to do that. They didn't HAVE to... there wasn't any real pressure from anyone. It was simply a matter of consciousness. Slavery is an affront to Liberty.

My argument has been that they didn't "duck the issue" as you claimed. They addressed it the best way they could at the time. They couldn't resolve it but they left the tools and language to resolve it for future generations.

OK....lets go back to the original issue then

They not only ducked the issue....they sold out
With key founders owning slaves, what do you expect?
No they didn't address it. They had other priorities and "all men are created equal" was not one of them

By selling out, they set us up for a war four score and seven years later.

Again, that is a purely revisionist idea of what went down. People who grew cotton, tobacco and sugar cane owned slaves because that was how it was harvested. There was no other option. It's not selling out when there isn't another option.

And AGAIN... they DID address it, as I pointed out, which you acknowledged but are now ignoring and pretending it wasn't a point I made. They addressed slavery as best they could at the time. They outlawed slave trade and put the language in the Constitution to enable freedom of slaves when the time came. Even Frederick Douglass recognized their brilliance in that. Why are YOU having a problem?

The War wasn't the fault of the founders, it was the result of the courts and congress FAILING to do the right thing when the time came. They failed and we had war. Furthermore, the war didn't end slavery! It took a Constitutional Amendment to do that. Why couldn't that have been done BEFORE the war? No reason... it just wasn't.

Yes it is selling out
If you can't make a profit without resorting to slave labor you do not belong in business
Banning the importation of africans did nothing to end slavery
The slave population increased after the ban

still whining about centuries past

Read the title of the thread you are on

 

[gipper]

Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century? That was a time when we as a nation committed very little towards investment within our borders, very little laws or rules to protect the workers, life was far harder then today and I honestly believe the world of the time was so alien to the concepts of modern 20th and 21st century that America would be transformed into a very poor, backwards and violent society if we attempted it. It would be a outright suicide of the most advance nation on earth in many measures and a true lost to all of humanity.

Government expanded because it had too, just like every other modern state due to civilized people wanting infrastructure, wanting education for their children, clean air, water and food and a ever better standard of living. For one to argue that the 18th century was superior is the height of insanity within my mind, but that is exactly what extreme conservatism is bitching for. So you'd rather put your trust in the same corporations that pollute the environment in india then to have the government fine the bastards and give them a good reason to stop??? So you'd rather businesses have the power to refuse payment to work or set up sweat shops while you smile and say get a job. WTF is wrong with you? I say this because it could be you or your children that has little choice for employment! Why make life worse for yourself?


I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

I wish for a return to the 18th century. I would then challenge you to a duel and put you out of your misery. Thus ending the misery you inflect on others.

So you're running for vice president?

Aaron Burr did put that asshole elitist Hamilton to rest.

 

[rightwinger]

What is the argument about? Does the left claim that the U.S. Constitution is invalid? Lay out your case lefties instead of fiddling around with glitzy borrowed software and photoshopped junk that pretends to be a political argument.

The left is claiming that the Constitution is not stuck in the 18th century

 

[Avatar4321]

The Trump whores wants America to return to the period of time when blacks knew their place and when they didn't... they'd be the main event at the weekly Klan lynching.

Republicans are always in favor of blacks remembering their place as our equals instead of slaves on the Democrat plantation

 

[mudwhistle]

The Trump whores wants America to return to the period of time when blacks knew their place and when they didn't... they'd be the main event at the weekly Klan lynching.

Actually Obama wanted to kill cops. Trump just wants to make America Great Again.