Why do so many people deny climate change

[PMZ]

So should we stop the climate from changing? How? And was there ever a time when the climate WASN'T changing?

This is the first time in global history when it's been on us. We have to stop doing what's causing it anyway. If we can make the move away from temporary energy sources like fossil fuels more quickly, we can save lots of money by not having to adapt civilization to a more extreme climate.

 

[Impenitent]

Wow, very convincing.

I guess we're to blame for the record number of hurricanes every year for the last 5 years?

Hurricane
(to Billie Jean)

Disasters come more often it seems
And so Pat Roberson and I prayed
Everybody knows exactly what it means
It had to be that gay parade - that party on Fire Island -that nightclub down in Queens

It was worse than a disaster scene
You see on the movie screen
I said, pardon me, what do you mean, by "anthropogenic global warming?"
She said, that is why the hurricane came aground
That is why - the hurricane - came aground

She told me the hurricane's name was Sandy
And it was the corporate modus operandi
They pump carbon dioxide in the air
Then these come aground
They pump - in the air - these come aground

Now I've always trusted corporations are careful what they do
They don't pump poisons in the air
I don't think the problem could be co2
Or that the corporations - just don't care

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

For Bush's two terms,
the law was on our side
But who can stand with Obama in charge*and his business death march
But then - this hurricane- came aground

I went back to my corporate job
But what she said laid heavy on my heart
When I looked at the smoke stacks
My head began to throb - i thought about those slobs - and longed to join their mob!

Now I feel revulsed and conflicted
To this life of excess I've become addicted
I sold my soul as if money was eternal youth
Now that lie is - an inconvenient truth

All Man's wealth comes from cheap fossil fuel
I jumped at that because I'm nobody's fool
Now that cost has come home to roost, as deadly as a viper
And now we've got to pay -pay the piper

So take my strong advice
Just remember to always think twice
Do think twice - do think twice

She told my baby, we were swimming til three
Then she looked at me, and showed me a photo
My baby cried, her family had died, oh no
All because - this hurricane - came aground

Hurricanes are not global warming
She just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one

Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming

...

That is correct.. Artistic value aside and political bias cast off..

Hurricanes are not global warming. Not today or last year..

And Sandy wasn't a hurricane when NY was caught with it's pants down..
Do you know any tunes about mass hysteria?

Actually, I am in partial agreement with you - hurricanes are not caused by global warming.

But things that are caused by global warming will make Hurricanes worse. The additional water vapor in the air means more rain, and the higher sea levels will mean a deeper storm surge - and didn't you see both of those come into play with Sandy?

And mass hysteria is never recognized by those who have it! They would call it something else - such as concensus - or skepticism - or something like that!

And, yes, I know many more tunes!

 

[westwall]

So, we clearly establishe, yesterday, that the reason people deny climate change is because they believe that the mitigation efforts will take money out of their pockets.

What should be clear, then, is that all of their understanding of economics and science is predicated on this initial assumption. They begin with the assumption that all mitigation will always take money out of their pockets. Then they approach economics and science to prove that the government is bad, as taxes are bad, and that climate chamge science is wrong.

This is why their logic and reasoning is so often disjointed, why they change direction so quickly, because the thread of consideration that they are following has less to do with the science and everything to do with their a priori determination.

We have seen this in the argument that CO2 is not responsible for the increase in temp when, in fact, with further pressing, the truth is that they believe that the temperature record is wrong or fabricated. The obvious lack of logic in arguing that the temperature increase is a natural cycle, when in fact they believe that the data is faulty, completely escapes them. It escapes them because the foundation of their focus has nothing to do with the science, it is about that money in their pocket. What they really are not stating is that AWG doesn't exist because they know it will cost them money.

The fact of this is demonstrated. We can go back in the thread and see who jumped in to "prove" that a carbon tax will cost them.

The problem with their "proofs" is that, first off, they have no idea how to approach a null hypothesis. In fact, they have no null hypothesis. What thay have is a hypothesis, one that they take as actual fact. They then proceed forward, interpreting anything they can find, as proof. This is what leads to the obvious ignorance. Anything that brings their belief into question is ignored. It is also what leads them to misinterpreting the basics, like marginal costs, supply and demand equibrium shifts, and the effects of taxes amd the money supply. Everything is either molded to "prove" the a priori biased premise or is does not exist. Data either fits the premise or it is fabricated. Statement by others either support the premise or it is a lie.

So, there is the why and how of the denial of climate change.

No, we don't deny climate change. We dispute the man caused aspect of it which you have yet to prove in the slightest. It has nothing to do with taking money out of our pockets. It has everything to do with your desire to have government take over the control of every aspect of our lives. If we could pay money so that we could control the climate believe me we would happily pay. Who wouldn't want to control the weather?

The simple reality is, like the shysters of old who claimed they could bring rain to desperate farmers, you clowns demand we give you tremendous amounts of money and you present no measurable reason to do so.

You are no better then the shaman demanding virgins to be sacrificed to the volcano gods.

 

[PMZ]

Hurricane
(to Billie Jean)

Disasters come more often it seems
And so Pat Roberson and I prayed
Everybody knows exactly what it means
It had to be that gay parade - that party on Fire Island -that nightclub down in Queens

It was worse than a disaster scene
You see on the movie screen
I said, pardon me, what do you mean, by "anthropogenic global warming?"
She said, that is why the hurricane came aground
That is why - the hurricane - came aground

She told me the hurricane's name was Sandy
And it was the corporate modus operandi
They pump carbon dioxide in the air
Then these come aground
They pump - in the air - these come aground

Now I've always trusted corporations are careful what they do
They don't pump poisons in the air
I don't think the problem could be co2
Or that the corporations - just don't care

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

For Bush's two terms,
the law was on our side
But who can stand with Obama in charge*and his business death march
But then - this hurricane- came aground

I went back to my corporate job
But what she said laid heavy on my heart
When I looked at the smoke stacks
My head began to throb - i thought about those slobs - and longed to join their mob!

Now I feel revulsed and conflicted
To this life of excess I've become addicted
I sold my soul as if money was eternal youth
Now that lie is - an inconvenient truth

All Man's wealth comes from cheap fossil fuel
I jumped at that because I'm nobody's fool
Now that cost has come home to roost, as deadly as a viper
And now we've got to pay -pay the piper

So take my strong advice
Just remember to always think twice
Do think twice - do think twice

She told my baby, we were swimming til three
Then she looked at me, and showed me a photo
My baby cried, her family had died, oh no
All because - this hurricane - came aground

Hurricanes are not global warming
She just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one

Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming

...

That is correct.. Artistic value aside and political bias cast off..

Hurricanes are not global warming. Not today or last year..

And Sandy wasn't a hurricane when NY was caught with it's pants down..
Do you know any tunes about mass hysteria?

Actually, I am in partial agreement with you - hurricanes are not caused by global warming.

But things that are caused by global warming will make Hurricanes worse. The additional water vapor in the air means more rain, and the higher sea levels will mean a deeper storm surge - and didn't you see both of those come into play with Sandy?

And mass hysteria is never recognized by those who have it! They would call it something else - such as concensus - or skepticism - or something like that!

And, yes, I know many more tunes!

I'm not seeing any 'mass hysteria'. By anybody. Zero.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hurricane
(to Billie Jean)

Disasters come more often it seems
And so Pat Roberson and I prayed
Everybody knows exactly what it means
It had to be that gay parade - that party on Fire Island -that nightclub down in Queens

It was worse than a disaster scene
You see on the movie screen
I said, pardon me, what do you mean, by "anthropogenic global warming?"
She said, that is why the hurricane came aground
That is why - the hurricane - came aground

She told me the hurricane's name was Sandy
And it was the corporate modus operandi
They pump carbon dioxide in the air
Then these come aground
They pump - in the air - these come aground

Now I've always trusted corporations are careful what they do
They don't pump poisons in the air
I don't think the problem could be co2
Or that the corporations - just don't care

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

For Bush's two terms,
the law was on our side
But who can stand with Obama in charge*and his business death march
But then - this hurricane- came aground

I went back to my corporate job
But what she said laid heavy on my heart
When I looked at the smoke stacks
My head began to throb - i thought about those slobs - and longed to join their mob!

Now I feel revulsed and conflicted
To this life of excess I've become addicted
I sold my soul as if money was eternal youth
Now that lie is - an inconvenient truth

All Man's wealth comes from cheap fossil fuel
I jumped at that because I'm nobody's fool
Now that cost has come home to roost, as deadly as a viper
And now we've got to pay -pay the piper

So take my strong advice
Just remember to always think twice
Do think twice - do think twice

She told my baby, we were swimming til three
Then she looked at me, and showed me a photo
My baby cried, her family had died, oh no
All because - this hurricane - came aground

Hurricanes are not global warming
She just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one

Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming

...

That is correct.. Artistic value aside and political bias cast off..

Hurricanes are not global warming. Not today or last year..

And Sandy wasn't a hurricane when NY was caught with it's pants down..
Do you know any tunes about mass hysteria?

Actually, I am in partial agreement with you - hurricanes are not caused by global warming.

But things that are caused by global warming will make Hurricanes worse. The additional water vapor in the air means more rain, and the higher sea levels will mean a deeper storm surge - and didn't you see both of those come into play with Sandy?

And mass hysteria is never recognized by those who have it! They would call it something else - such as concensus - or skepticism - or something like that!

And, yes, I know many more tunes!

No.. I didn't see higher sea levels come into play for Sandy from Global Warming. I saw higher sea levels due to an exceptionally high tide come into play..

List of New York hurricanes encompasses 84 tropical or subtropical cyclones that have affected the state of New York since the 17th century. The state of New York is located along the East coast of the United States, in the Northeastern portion of the country. The strongest of these storms was the 1938 New England Hurricane, which struck Long Island as a Category 3 storm on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale. Killing more than 600 people, it was also the deadliest. Tropical cyclones have affected the state primarily in September but have also hit during every month of the hurricane season, June through November. Tropical cyclones rarely make landfall on the state, although it is common for remnants of tropical cyclones to produce heavy rainfall and flooding.

1954 — Hurricane Hazel - wind gust of 113 mph at Battery Park, highest ever recorded in New York City.
August 31, 1954 — Hurricane Carol makes landfall on Long Island and produces wind gusts of 120 miles per hour (190 km/h) on Montauk Point.[3] On eastern Long Island near where Carol made landfall, a pressure of 960 mbar is recorded.[31] Winds on the island gust to 120 mph (195 km/h). The hurricane's storm surge covers the Montauk Highway in Montauk, effectively isolating eastern Long Island for a period of time. Due to the compact nature of the storm, most of Long Island is largely unaffected by the hurricane.[31] Specific damage totals for New York are unknown, although the storm in its entirety causes $460 million (1954 USD) in damage.[31]
September 10, 1954 — Hurricane Edna tracks to the east of Long Island producing 9 inches (230 mm) of rain.[3] Prior to the storm, New York City orders an emergency standby for the majority of its hospitals, and subways.[32]
August 13, 1955 — Hurricane Connie produces 13.24 inches (370 mm) of rain in Southeast New York, although damage is unknown.[33]
September 28, 1956 — Hurricane Flossy tracks to the south of Long Island, brushing it with light rainfall.[34]
October 1, 1959 — The remnants of Hurricane Gracie track into Central New York and drops up to 6 inches (150 mm) of rain.[35]
September 11, 1960 — Hurricane Donna makes landfall on Long Island as a Category 2 hurricane. Sustained winds of 100 mph (160 km/h) on eastern Long Island and 70 mph (110 km/h) winds on western Long Island are reported, and tides are 6 feet (2 m) above normal along most of the coast. Strong waves also cause beach erosion and several homes along the shore to be destroyed. Due to well-executed warnings, damages are extremely low, and it is reported that no deaths result from the storm.[36]
September 21, 1961 — Hurricane Esther causes $3 million (1961 USD, $20 million 2007 USD) in damage in Suffolk County as it tracks to the east of Long Island. Coastal areas of Long Island were flooded, as well as storm surge and wind gusts of 108 mph (173 km/h), which causes 260,000 homes to be left without power.[37]
October 8, 1962 — Hurricane Daisy tracks east of New England, producing light rainfall in extreme eastern portions of Upstate New York.[38]
September 23, 1964 — Beach erosion and moderate wind gusts are reported on Long Island as Hurricane Gladys tracks a couple hundred miles south of New York.[39]
October 19, 1964 — Light rainfall is reported as Hurricane Isbell tracks off the coast.[40]
September 10, 1969 — Rainfall up to 3 inches (75 mm) is reported on Long Island and in portions of Southeastern New York associated with Hurricane Gerda.[41]
August 28, 1971 — Tropical Storm Doria produces up to 8 inches (200 mm) of rain in New York City and Upstate New York causing moderate to severe flooding and floods subways in New York City.[42][43]
June 22, 1972 — Hurricane Agnes makes landfall near New York City and produces up to 12 inches (300 mm) of rain in Southeastern New York State and much of Western New York, with locally higher amounts. Storm tides of 3.1 feet (1 m) and wind gusts of 55 miles per hour (89 km/h) occur in New York City, and severe river flooding causes six deaths.[44]
September 4, 1972 — Tropical Storm Carrie produces light rainfall on the eastern end of Long Island.[45]

Note the years BEFORE Global Warming when MULTIPLE CERTIFIED HURRICANES affected the New York metro in ADJACENT YEARS. Like 1954, 55, 56 where 5 or 6 tropical storms/hurricanes hit the city.. Go to the WIKI page and see for yourself..

I think your little ditty is great.. File it under "Folk" for ForkLore and collect the royalties..
If 0.5 degree in your lifetime is all it takes to turn weather into MONSTER WEATHER, there would be no one alive in Coastal mississippi or Texas today to tell the story or sing the song.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You don't have a solution. You don't even recognize that there's a problem. That makes you and other denialists totally useless.

If the problem is an eventual exhaustion of fossil fuels, the market will find the solution.

The only thing that will get in the way of that solution will be assclowns like you, using big government to waste trillions and put up roadblocks to the real solution.

The market is doing that today. The government is merely encouraging more rapid progress. Why? Businesses only invest in what's best for each of them individually. People only buy what they need today. Neither consumers nor companies will solve long term problems because they're no smarter than you are.

The government is merely encouraging more rapid progress.

What progress did they encourage at Solyndra?

Businesses only invest in what's best for each of them individually.

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages."

Neither consumers nor companies will solve long term problems because they're no smarter than you are

Yes, comrade, the current Five-Year plan will maximize wheat production and allow us to magnify the glory of our Socialist Revolution.

 

[Politico]

Man now it is warm again today. I am so confused.

 

[westwall]

I agree with Flac, I am no longer feeding the PmsMZ troll.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I agree with Flac, I am no longer feeding the PmsMZ troll.

It is dumber than a bag of hair.

 

[SSDD]

Time to put the troll to bed.. He's got a busy day tomorrow fixing all those problems..
"That's what Liberals do" ?????????????????????????????????

Maybe --- I'm a Liberal.. Not the kind of Liberal that PMZ would recognize. THE REAL kind of Liberal that has an inherent distrust of government power and reach.. And a huge faith in INDIVIDUAL initiative and responsibilities. The trolls have inbred any kind of self-preservation RIGHT out of their offspring...

REALLY Man.. DOn't feed this troll anymore.. He's exploding out of his jump suit like O.J.

That is classical liberalism.....not to be confused with modern socialism which is what is called liberalism today.

 

[SSDD]

So, we clearly establishe, yesterday, that the reason people deny climate change is because they believe that the mitigation efforts will take money out of their pockets.

Your premise is a lie. No one is denying climate change. What us skeptics are denying is man's responsibility for global climate change and we deny it because there is not one iota of hard proof to support the claim that man is changing the global climate.

 

[SSDD]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

No, the computer I am typing on is the result of a couple of individuals pursuing a great idea in their garage. Government would have never willingly handed over this sort of power to the public. It was only their profound lack of foresight that allowed those two guys in the garage to fully realize their idea.

The technology came from the government, not take as little risk as possible, make more money regardless of the cost to others, business.

The technology in my computer didn't come from the government. Those two guys in the garage took an entirely different path from government technology. My computer is about as different from government technology as a steel belted radial is from a wagon wheel.

 

[Abraham3]

I'm afraid it did. Integrated circuits and solid state components were the offspring of the space program.

Governments give plenty of reasons to be critical. No matter what they do, they will not please everyone. But they also do good and they exist because they do more good than bad. Taking the position that we've heard repeatedly around here, that governments are the source of all evil, that we'd be better served by unfettered capitalism, is unsupportable if for no other reason than its extremism and absoluteness. Personally, I'd rather be ruled by someone that wants my vote than by someone that wants my money.

 

[PMZ]

I'm afraid it did. Integrated circuits and solid state components were the offspring of the space program.

Governments give plenty of reasons to be critical. No matter what they do, they will not please everyone. But they also do good and they exist because they do more good than bad. Taking the position that we've heard repeatedly around here, that governments are the source of all evil, that we'd be better served by unfettered capitalism, is unsupportable if for no other reason than its extremism and absoluteness. Personally, I'd rather be ruled by someone that wants my vote than by someone that wants my money.

Facts bounce off media conservatives like water off a ducks back. They pretend that the propaganda that they are issued 24/7/365 is gospel. To know otherwise would require independent thought. Not their strong suite.

It's a nice simple black and white world to believe that all of the nefarious incompetent people ended up in government and business is flawless. And all of the nefarious incompetent people are liberals while conservatives are flawless. And all of the nefarious incompetent people are non Christian, and don't join unions and aren't educated and aren't foreign and aren't women and aren't scientists.

Comfortable, but not true.

A minor inconvenience.

Black and white is easy. Gray, not so much.

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm afraid it did. Integrated circuits and solid state components were the offspring of the space program.

Governments give plenty of reasons to be critical. No matter what they do, they will not please everyone. But they also do good and they exist because they do more good than bad. Taking the position that we've heard repeatedly around here, that governments are the source of all evil, that we'd be better served by unfettered capitalism, is unsupportable if for no other reason than its extremism and absoluteness. Personally, I'd rather be ruled by someone that wants my vote than by someone that wants my money.

The stuff that the Govt paid for SPECIFICALLY for the Apollo FLIGHT computers was not a real prototype of the integrated circuits that National, Intel, Fairchild were already contemplating and DEMONSTRATING.

Computer History Museum - The Silicon Engine | 1960 - First Planar Integrated Circuit is Fabricated

The tech ALREADY EXISTED and the Apollo buys of ICs were the first CUSTOM application of that technology.. The govt was simply one of the first CUSTOMERS for this tech..

The BULK of the development from RTL to DTL to TTL logic circuits occurred in the Semi company labs without significant govt intervention..

We don't have unfettered capitalism.. We have INCREASINGLY crony capitalism which NEITHER major party will address. And the problem is that the govt has decided to DECLARE itself a market mover. And usurp the right to fund winners and losers. They are demonstrably piss poor at this. And it is the primary source of lobbying and political influence. Stop the handouts and the corps go back to grazing and hunter gathering like they should..

RESEARCH is a different animal.. The taxpayer should never float a dollar to subsidize products that are ALREADY on the market. BUT -- ENCOURAGING innovation can be used sparingly and strategically.

 

[Abraham3]

Encouraging innovation can be used sparingly.

Why sparingly?

 

[Abraham3]

Early developments of the integrated circuit go back to 1949, when the German engineer Werner Jacobi (de) (Siemens AG)[5] filed a patent for an integrated-circuit-like semiconductor amplifying device[6] showing five transistors on a common substrate in a 3-stage amplifier arrangement. Jacobi disclosed small and cheap hearing aids as typical industrial applications of his patent. An immediate commercial use of his patent has not been reported.
The idea of the integrated circuit was conceived by a radar scientist working for the Royal Radar Establishment of the British Ministry of Defence, Geoffrey W.A. Dummer (1909–2002). Dummer presented the idea to the public at the Symposium on Progress in Quality Electronic Components in Washington, D.C. on 7 May 1952.[7] He gave many symposia publicly to propagate his ideas, and unsuccessfully attempted to build such a circuit in 1956.
A precursor idea to the IC was to create small ceramic squares (wafers), each one containing a single miniaturized component. Components could then be integrated and wired into a bidimensional or tridimensional compact grid. This idea, which looked very promising in 1957, was proposed to the US Army by Jack Kilby, and led to the short-lived Micromodule Program (similar to 1951's Project Tinkertoy).[8] However, as the project was gaining momentum, Kilby came up with a new, revolutionary design: the IC.
Robert Noyce credited Kurt Lehovec of Sprague Electric for the principle of p-n junction isolation caused by the action of a biased p-n junction (the diode) as a key concept behind the IC.[9]

Jack Kilby's original integrated circuit


Newly employed by Texas Instruments, Kilby recorded his initial ideas concerning the integrated circuit in July 1958, successfully demonstrating the first working integrated example on 12 September 1958.[10] In his patent application of 6 February 1959, Kilby described his new device as “a body of semiconductor material … wherein all the components of the electronic circuit are completely integrated.”[11] The first customer for the new invention was the US Air Force.[12]
Kilby won the 2000 Nobel Prize in Physics for his part of the invention of the integrated circuit.[13] Kilby's work was named an IEEE Milestone in 2009.[14]
Noyce also came up with his own idea of an integrated circuit half a year later than Kilby. His chip solved many practical problems that Kilby's had not. Produced at Fairchild Semiconductor, it was made of silicon, whereas Kilby's chip was made of germanium.
Fairchild Semiconductor was also home of the first silicon gate IC technology with self-aligned gates, which stands as the basis of all modern CMOS computer chips. The technology was developed by Italian physicist Federico Faggin in 1968, who later joined Intel in order to develop the very first Central Processing Unit (CPU) on one chip (Intel 4004), for which he received the National Medal of Technology and Innovation in 2010.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm afraid it did. Integrated circuits and solid state components were the offspring of the space program.

Governments give plenty of reasons to be critical. No matter what they do, they will not please everyone. But they also do good and they exist because they do more good than bad. Taking the position that we've heard repeatedly around here, that governments are the source of all evil, that we'd be better served by unfettered capitalism, is unsupportable if for no other reason than its extremism and absoluteness. Personally, I'd rather be ruled by someone that wants my vote than by someone that wants my money.

And yet they were taken to the next level by private enterprise.

And if you don't think politicians want your money you're in idiot.

 

[Spiderman]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

The computers used for the moon mission had less power than a digital watch. it was afterwards when private industry got involved in the computer chip business when we saw great leaps and bounds.



The government did not develop construction methods all it did was set minimum standards for buildings. The construction industry had to find a way to meet those standards in an efficient affordable manner.






It's not the government's job to provide for our needs.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

And let's stop insulting each other.

Here we go again with the Somalia red herring.

Where has anyone here suggested we have no government?

Somalia is not a red herring. It's the realized vision of extreme conservative politics, though it was realized just by people who didn't know any better. Conservatives don't know any better either. They merely follow those selling plutocracy.

That you can't see advocating for less intrusive government is not the same as advocating for no government tells me all I need to know about your intelligence.

 

[flacaltenn]

Encouraging innovation can be used sparingly.

Why sparingly?

Strategically, not tactically.. Because Govt has to get into the pants of MULTIPLE corporations on the same project. And then there is the problem of proprietary information being leaked and favorites being played. That leads to more govt/corp collusion. Universities also develop conflicts of interest when being fed from both sources.

AND -- because the govt has the attention span of a Valley girl.. And doesn't have the motivation to see things thru that motivates investment in the private sector.

PURE research or strategic programs in space, military, or medicine for example, I highly favor over giving GE $75 for each Energy efficient washer/dryer that they sell.