Why do so many Goppers oppose Gay Marriage ?

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Democratic socialism is a revisionist version of genuine Marxist socialism. It's a watered-down version of socialism, which really isn't socialism at all. One very important aspect of socialism is the nationalization of industries that are vital to a nation's infrastructure. All of the major centers of economic power (i.e. heavy industries), like energy (oil, gas, nuclear plants, electricity) and other utilities are publicly owned. The banks, the mining industry, healthcare, pharmaceuticals, education, the military-industrial complex..etc, comprise the nation's commonwealth, it's owned and operated by the people. All of the money generated by those industries is deposited in the public treasury, in other words, it's returned to the people. When we pay our light bill, we are paying that money to our government which then takes that money and uses it to pave roads, inspect and maintain bridges, build housing and hospitals, and universities. etc. I'll rather pay my utilities to my government than to a billionaire, who's going to use that money to buy a new mega yacht. I'll rather have that money return to me and my family, my community.

Socialism is the process that leads to high-communism. A stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. Communism is born when the individual consumer has complete contraol over the means of production. Technology will eventually allow the consumer to produce everything they consume, themselves, without anyone else's assistance:

​

We're about 70 or 100 years from high communism. Until then, we'll have socialism. When unemployment becomes much worse than it is right now, people will form worker cooperatives and colonies to survive.

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Like you really believe government will handle the money more honestly than the private sector. Get real.

 

[Flopper]

So if a pedophile or a psychopath doesn't show any "subjective distress" or no "generalized impairment" (whatever the heck that means), in "social effectiveness" (more ambiguity), or "functioning", their condition is not a disorder? Homosexuals aren't sexually attracted to the opposite sex but are rather attracted sexually to members of their own sex, which leads to very serious impairment, namely, seriously undermining their ability to procreate. Most people in society are naturally repulsed by homosexuals, despite not admitting it publicly in our modern, Western society, due to political reasons. So it does indeed impair their ability to effectively interact with and function in most societies. A society that doesn't recognize homosexuality as an illness becomes ill itself, as is evident today with our "woke", gender fluid, and dysphoric, highly sexualized (pornified) culture. I should also add "pedophilic" because some people in positions of influence are even considering legalizing pedophilia.

Suicide Attempts Among Gay and Bisexual Men: Lifetime Prevalence and Antecedents

Objectives. We examined lifetime prevalence of suicide attempts and psychosocial correlates in a large population-based sample of men who have sex with men (MSM).Methods. A telephone probability sample of US urban MSM (n = 2881) were interviewed between ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

" Result of the above study. Twenty-one percent had made a suicide plan; 12% had attempted suicide (almost half of those 12% were multiple attempters). Most who attempted suicide made their first attempt before age 25. Although prevalence of parasuicide (i.e., attempted suicide) has remained constant across birth cohorts, mean age at initial attempts has declined. Conclusions. MSM are at elevated risk for suicide attempts, with such risk clustered earlier in life. Some risk factors were specific to being gay or bisexual in a hostile environment."

Of course, some will say that it is due to being in a hostile environment that they've become suicidal. But even in an egalitarian society where homosexuals are parading themselves in the streets, can get married, adopt children, GROOM children to be gay, and do whatever they want, with all of that, they're still committing suicide at much higher rates than heterosexuals."

A systematic review of mental disorder, suicide, and deliberate self harm in lesbian, gay and bisexual people - BMC Psychiatry

Background Lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) people may be at higher risk of mental disorders than heterosexual people. Method We conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis of the prevalence of mental disorder, substance misuse, suicide, suicidal ideation and deliberate self harm in LGB...

bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com

" Meta-analyses revealed a two fold excess in suicide attempts in lesbian, gay and bisexual people [pooled risk ratio for lifetime risk 2.47 (CI 1.87, 3.28)]. The risk for depression and anxiety disorders (over a period of 12 months or a lifetime) on meta-analyses were at least 1.5 times higher in lesbian, gay and bisexual people (RR range 1.54–2.58) and alcohol and other substance dependence over 12 months was also 1.5 times higher (RR range 1.51–4.00). Results were similar in both sexes but meta analyses revealed that lesbian and bisexual women were particularly at risk of substance dependence (alcohol 12 months: RR 4.00, CI 2.85, 5.61; drug dependence: RR 3.50, CI 1.87, 6.53; any substance use disorder RR 3.42, CI 1.97–5.92), while lifetime prevalence of suicide attempt was especially high in gay and bisexual men (RR 4.28, CI 2.32, 7.88).

Conclusion​

LGB people are at higher risk of mental disorder, suicidal ideation, substance misuse, and deliberate self harm than heterosexual people.
Peer Review reports "

" Statistics on Mental Health and Suicide Among LBGTQ Youth​

LGBTQ teen suicide rates and LGBTQ mental health statistics reflect the societal and relationship challenges that these young people face. The Trevor Project’s new survey captured the experiences of some 34,000 LGBTQ youth, ages 13 to 24, across the United States. Here are some of the key findings:

• 75 percent of LGBTQ teens experienced symptoms of anxiety in the past year.
• 61 percent experienced symptoms of depression.
• Among all LGBTQ youth surveyed (ages 13–24), 82 percent wanted mental healthcare in the past year.
• However, 60 percent of those youth were unable to access care.

According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), LGBTQ teens are six times more likely to experience symptoms of depression than the general population. Research shows that low family satisfaction, cyberbullying victimization, and unmet medical needs contributed to their higher rates of depression. The Trevor Project found that the pandemic also contributed to mental health challenges: 60 percent of teens reported experiencing poor mental health sometimes or all the time since the pandemic began. "

A contributing factor doesn't imply causation. Homosexuals, whether they're in the American Bible belt or ISIS-controlled Syria, facing the specter of being thrown off of a roof, or they're living in the most egalitarian societies in the world like Norway or Denmark, the rates of depression and suicide are still much higher for homosexuals than they are for heterosexuals. Same shit.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1557988316685492

"Depression is a risk factor for suicide (Oliffe & Phillips, 2008), and suicide is a leading cause of male death (Statistics Canada, 2014). Within this context, there is strong evidence that gay men are more likely than heterosexual men to experience suicidality (Brennan, Ross, Dobinson, Veldhuizen, & Steele, 2010; Hottes, Bogaert, Rhodes, Brennan, & Gesink, 2016; King et al., 2008). Depression and suicidality may also increase gay men’s risk of alcohol and drug overuse, unprotected anal intercourse, and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV; Cox, 2006; Ferlatte, Dulai, Hottes, Trussler & Marchand, 2015). In terms of potential causes of depression and suicidality in gay men, relationship problems, accepting one’s homosexuality, experiencing homophobia, institutional discrimination, and alienation from gay communities have been reported as underpinning issues (Cox, 2006; Haas et al., 2011; Wang, Plöderl, Hӓusermann, & Weiss, 2015).

Scant research exists about gay men’s health beyond sexual health issues, most often HIV (Hottes, Ferlatte, & Gesink, 2014). Though gay men self-report that they rank mental health as one of their top health concerns (Grov, Ventuneac, Rendina, Jimenez, & Parsons, 2013) depression and suicidality in the lives of gay men are poorly understood (Haas et al., 2011; King et al., 2008). "

Gay parents are more likely to have children with a homosexual orientation:

Children of homosexuals more apt to be homosexuals? A reply to Morrison and to Cameron based on an examination of multiple sources of data - PubMed

Ten narrative studies involving family histories of 262 children of gay fathers and lesbian mothers were evaluated statistically in response to Morrison's (2007) concerns about Cameron's (2006) research that had involved three narrative studies. Despite numerous attempts to bias the results in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Data from ethnographic sources and from previous studies on gay and lesbian parenting were re-examined and found to support the hypothesis that social and parental influences may influence the expression of non-heterosexual identities and/or behaviour. Thus, evidence is presented from three different sources, contrary to most previous scientific opinion, even most previous scientific consensus, that suggests intergenerational transfer of sexual orientation can occur at statistically significant and substantial rates, especially for female parents or female children. In some analyses for sons, intergenerational transfer was not significant. Further research is needed with respect to pathways by which intergenerational transfer of sexual orientation may occur. The results confirm an evolving tendency among scholars to cite the possibility of some degree of intergenerational crossover of sexual orientation."

There are several studies showing that the sexual orientation of parents has an influence over their children's sexual orientation.

By every metric and standard of health, personal safety, and welfare, homosexuality is a disorder. More depression, suicide, substance abuse, and a higher frequency of STD infections among a plethora of other ailments, and yet you assert homosexuality is just a "healthy alternative" to heterosexuality? Really? Seriously? All of this is healthy for society? You deny this is a disorder and you make homosexuality "mainstream" and this is what occurs:

7-year-old trans child wins LA Pride Parade..


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No. That should NEVER be acceptable in a civilized society. NEVER. You keep your homosexuality in your nightclubs, bathhouses, in your bedrooms, and keep that crap away from our children.


Due to political reasons, homosexuality in modern Western society has become "normalized", a supposed "healthy alternative" to heterosexuality. It's self-evident for most reasonable people, even if they refuse to admit it, that homosexuality isn't a "healthy alternative" to heterosexuality. It's an illness that could perhaps, with hormone treatments, genetic therapy, medications, and professional counseling (that's not politically influenced or coerced), be effectively treated, if not cured. Due to political reasons, medical science is not allowed to even consider the possibility that homosexuality is a disorder that can be effectively treated and cured. So due to politics, homosexuals are being deprived of a potential, effective treatment and cure for their illness.

I don't believe in witch hunts for homosexuals or that they should be abused or deprived of their human rights. I just don't consider the "human rights" of homosexuals to include placing children at risk of developing a homosexual orientation, gender dysphoria, or any condition that might place them at serious risk of having problems with depression, suicide, substance abuse, starting a family and siring offspring (spreading their genes). I will offend homosexuals, the LGBTQA+++ community ALL DAY & FOREVER, before I place any child at risk of injury and death by being influenced and abused by homosexuals or anybody else.

Now what I'm about to say, I know is going to be scoffed at, ridiculed, and used to discredit everything I mentioned earlier and that's fine. I frankly don't care, because I know that what I'm about to reveal is 100% real. It's the reality (it's part of the "cosmos") and relevant to this issue, whether the nihilistic atheists and materialists agree or not. I was an atheist, and materialist for most of my adult life, so I know that what I'm about to say sounds crazy. Nonetheless, what you are about to see in the following videos, I confirmed for myself with much research, conducted with others, at the University of Arizona in Tucson. We had to do this type of research privately, without any of our colleagues discovering what we were doing, lest we lose our careers. All of the phenomena that you're about to see in the video below are 100% genuine and authentic, it's not a fraud.

Evidence For Non-Physical Minds.

This video presents some of the ITC evidence for non-physical minds (i.e. spirits).

youtu.be

People are influenced, not just by genetics, biology, the environment, or material conditions, but also by a metaphysical reality. There are non-biological minds (i.e.intelligences), entities, that are able to influence our thoughts, feelings, behavior and even our health. The Christians and Muslims, the Hindus and spiritualists, all of these religious folks, that I used to mock, and make fun of, are correct with respect to the existence of "spirits". When I say spirits, I'm not referring to Jack Daniels. These "Bible thumpers" are correct, when it comes to the existence of non-biological life, angels, demons..etc. They're correct. To what extent do these beings influence sexual orientation? Ask yourself that. To what extent do these entities, whatever they actually are, desire to influence our thoughts, behavior, our health, and relationships? Don't run away from the question, consider it. As yourselves these questions, especially if you're a seeker of truth.

You think you're really smart, and perhaps you are, but we need to be a bit more humble, because all of these religious folks that we dismiss as being "stupid", dumb, might be right on certain issues.

I'm no longer an atheist, and although I'm still a Marxist and materialist, I consider the spirits and the "frequency of existence" in which they live, to be as real and material as this one. It's just a different type of material. Physics has been telling us for years that there's "dark matter" and "dark energy", a reality that influences the perceivable world but can't be directly detected by our scientific instruments. We only see its effects on our material world, hence we mathematically determined that this hidden or "dark" matter and energy exists. Well, perhaps what we are identifying as "dark" matter or energy is nothing less than the so-called "spirit realm", the world of spirit. The "aether".

I believe this is relevant to the issue of homosexuality and what is happening today in our country with all of this gender confusion and children being subjected to all of this sexual depravity. Children are being sexualized by these demonized "liberals" and homosexuals. This isn't just psychological, within the orb of sociology, no no. There is a spiritual component to all of this. The "religious folks" (that's what I call them), are correct on this issue. This is demonic. Evil, destructive entities.

Just because I feel like having sex with someone, doesn't imply that I should or have to. Feelings don't justify the act. More, love isn't necessarily sexual. A parent should love his or her children, and it goes without saying that, that parental love shouldn't be sexual. Love doesn't equate to sex or eroticism. There are different types of love. When homosexuals appeal to "love" to justify their sexual practices and lifestyle, they're applying very poor logic.

Too much in your post to address so I will address psychopathy, pedophilia, and homosexuality as a mental disorder. Both psychopathy and pedophilia do meet the requirements for listing in the DSM as a personality disorder .

A person with a psychopathic personality will have deficient emotional responses, lack of empathy, and poor behavioral controls. There lack of appropriate emotional responses makes forming lasting personal relationships impossible. Rules and laws mean little to a psychopath nor punishment for breaking them. They are so impaired in society that they represent a danger too themselves and other.

Pedophilia is listed as a mental disorder because of guilt, shame, and self-loathing associated with it. It is not the same as child molestation. Child molestation differs from Pedophilia in that the person does not experience intense guilt and shame. They will justify their actions with their treatment by society, or the child is not harmed, etc. True pedophiles are so racked with guilt they will often ask to be castrated and rarely try to justify their acts.

Homosexuality is not listed in the DSM as a disorder because there is no common set of symptoms that distresses the person other than discrimination by others. A mental of physical disorder has to be defined based on it's effect on the patient, not society. People may paint themselves the colors of the rainbow, wear clothing of opposite sex, attach a plastic penis to their body, and parade in the streets. That does not make them mentally ill. It makes them different.

 

[Flopper]

Like you really believe government will handle the money more honestly than the private sector. Get real.

Handling money is a bit of an ambiguous phrase. Governments will disperse social welfare money to poor more equitably than the private sector. It also would collects money in the form of taxes in a more equitable manor. Government will also "handle money" much less efficiently than the private sector because goverment is far more concerned with operating in conformance with laws and regulations. In short, if you want money handled more efficiently, the private sector is a better choice but if you want it handled more equitably, then government is a better choice.

 

[Red Front]

Too much in your post to address so I will address psychopathy, pedophilia, and homosexuality as a mental disorder. Both psychopathy and pedophilia do meet the requirements for listing in the DSM as a personality disorder .

A person with a psychopathic personality will have deficient emotional responses, lack of empathy, and poor behavioral controls. There lack of appropriate emotional responses makes forming lasting personal relationships impossible. Rules and laws mean little to a psychopath nor punishment for breaking them. They are so impaired in society that they represent a danger too themselves and other.

Pedophilia is listed as a mental disorder because of guilt, shame, and self-loathing associated with it. It is not the same as child molestation. Child molestation differs from Pedophilia in that the person does not experience intense guilt and shame. They will justify their actions with their treatment by society, or the child is not harmed, etc. True pedophiles are so racked with guilt they will often ask to be castrated and rarely try to justify their acts.

Homosexuality is not listed in the DSM as a disorder because there is no common set of symptoms that distresses the person other than discrimination by others. A mental of physical disorder has to be defined based on it's effect on the patient, not society. People may paint themselves the colors of the rainbow, wear clothing of opposite sex, attach a plastic penis to their body, and parade in the streets. That does not make them mentally ill. It makes them different.

Again, you're just reinforcing my point. The set of qualifying traits for the disorder may or may not be present as in the case of the pedophile, not having guilt due to being a psychopath, yet still sexually attracted to children hence has a serious disorder notwithstanding the lack of guilt. Your mentioned qualifiers for homosexuality are present in homosexuals, you just refuse to acknowledge that and shift the source of the trauma and injury to others. Many homosexuals are indeed self-loathing, guilty, and ashamed, and the opinion that it's exclusively due to others loathing and shaming them is groundless. These people feel that way anywhere, in Norway and Iceland or in Alabama and ISIS-controlled Syria, whether the place is 100% egalitarian or oppressive and even dangerous to life and limb, they're miserable, and that's why tolerance is not enough for many of them. They demand acceptance of their disorder as being a healthy "sexual orientation" and alternative to heterosexuality. When society does that, it becomes disordered itself, as is evident now in Western society. Look at those videos and images that I embedded in that post. What you're seeing there is healthy and good for society?

I also provided a link to a video about ITC (i.e. Instrumental Transcommunication), take a look at it. Those are non-biological entities or minds. Actually, I'm going to provide you with the link here:

​

These entities are speaking in German in the beginning of the video. I'm an ITC researcher and I've confirmed their existence for myself. What influence or impact do these beings have upon our thinking and behavior, including our sexual orientation? There's more to existence, to the world that we can normally detect with our five senses and technology.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Handling money is a bit of an ambiguous phrase. Governments will disperse social welfare money to poor more equitably than the private sector. It also would collects money in the form of taxes in a more equitable manor. Government will also "handle money" much less efficiently than the private sector because goverment is far more concerned with operating in conformance with laws and regulations. In short, if you want money handled more efficiently, the private sector is a better choice but if you want it handled more equitably, then government is a better choice.

Government handles money the worst of all because they have a no-risk circumstance.

 

[Red Front]

At least the government

Like you really believe government will handle the money more honestly than the private sector. Get real.

A simple response is asking you the same question but replacing the word "government" with "private sector" or capitalists. At least government officials are a lot more accountable to the public that they serve than a privately owned business enterprise (of course, assuming the government is a democracy). Why should the American people hand over their commonwealth to a businessman or capitalist? All of those tens of billions of dollars are being deposited in the private checking accounts of billionaires. Why? I'll rather have that money go to the public treasury where it can be used to build and maintain our nation's infrastructure and projects (being used for the public good, not to buy more Ferraris for a rich guy). You've bought into the false narrative and propaganda of your capitalist masters who hate government, especially if it's democratic. Government can be when the citizenry is well informed and educated, the power of the people. The commons, the public has power in a democracy, more so than the rich elite, the corporations.

In the first phase of socialism, the heavy industries are owned by the people and there can be a private sector for consumer goods and services. As production technology advances there comes a point where there's no practical need for a private sector. The consumer can easily organize production through worker cooperatives, replacing the private for-profit enterprise. That's a necessity once technology greatly reduces wage labor. With the significant loss or complete elimination of wage labor, the need for socialist production in all sectors of the economy is required. Employing advanced technology, worker-cooperatives organize production teams that produce all of the consumer goods and services that the public needs and wants. That's pure socialism, until the technology advances further, allowing the individual consumer, without the need for worker-cooperatives, to produce all of the products and services that they consume and need. The more autonomy or independence the consumer has over the means of production, the more socialism transforms itself into high-communism.

 

[Red Front]

Government handles money the worst of all because they have a no-risk circumstance.

You haven't heard of elections? When was the last time you participated in an election at work? Does your boss at work hold elections? Do you elect your managers?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

At least the government


A simple response is asking you the same question but replacing the word "government" with "private sector" or capitalists. At least government officials are a lot more accountable to the public that they serve than a privately owned business enterprise (of course, assuming the government is a democracy). Why should the American people hand over their commonwealth to a businessman or capitalist? All of those tens of billions of dollars are being deposited in the private checking accounts of billionaires. Why? I'll rather have that money go to the public treasury where it can be used to build and maintain our nation's infrastructure and projects (being used for the public good, not to buy more Ferraris for a rich guy). You've bought into the false narrative and propaganda of your capitalist masters who hate government, especially if it's democratic. Government can be when the citizenry is well informed and educated, the power of the people. The commons, the public has power in a democracy, more so than the rich elite, the corporations.

In the first phase of socialism, the heavy industries are owned by the people and there can be a private sector for consumer goods and services. As production technology advances there comes a point where there's no practical need for a private sector. The consumer can easily organize production through worker cooperatives, replacing the private for-profit enterprise. That's a necessity once technology greatly reduces wage labor. With the significant loss or complete elimination of wage labor, the need for socialist production in all sectors of the economy is required. Employing advanced technology, worker-cooperatives organize production teams that produce all of the consumer goods and services that the public needs and wants. That's pure socialism, until the technology advances further, allowing the individual consumer, without the need for worker-cooperatives, to produce all of the products and services that they consume and need. The more autonomy or independence the consumer has over the means of production, the more socialism transforms itself into high-communism.

Bullshit. Private business relies on actual business to survive. Therefore they have to account to a clientele.
Government takes what it wants under threat. Any program then becomes an excuse and opportunity to perpetually grow more government.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

You haven't heard of elections? When was the last time you participated in an election at work? Does your boss at work hold elections? Do you elect your managers?

Those who take and give away the most are elected most often. Duh.

 

[Red Front]

Bullshit. Private business relies on actual business to survive. Therefore they have to account to a clientele.
Government takes what it wants under threat. Any program then becomes an excuse and opportunity to perpetually grow more government.

I obviously triggered you. Private business relies heavily on government-maintained infrastructure. It also often relies on government contracts, loans, facilities, bailouts..etc. More, you completely ignored the fact that government, if it is actually democratic, must serve the electorate or the public good. The primary purpose of business is profits, not the good of society. You're either a millionaire or billionaire that hates government and thinks private business enterprises are entitled to our nation's resources at the expense of the public or you're a brainwashed employee and working class person, who defends his or her capitalist master/s. Either way, what you're saying is indeed "bullshit".

 

[Red Front]

Those who take and give away the most are elected most often. Duh.

You defend the dictatorship of the workplace, working for a little tyrant, rather than a democracy, where everyone has a say on how the organization is run. I prefer mutual accountability, whereas you obviously prefer authoritarianism. Being a slave to capitalists.

 

[Flopper]

Again, you're just reinforcing my point. The set of qualifying traits for the disorder may or may not be present as in the case of the pedophile, not having guilt due to being a psychopath, yet still sexually attracted to children hence has a serious disorder notwithstanding the lack of guilt. Your mentioned qualifiers for homosexuality are present in homosexuals, you just refuse to acknowledge that and shift the source of the trauma and injury to others. Many homosexuals are indeed self-loathing, guilty, and ashamed, and the opinion that it's exclusively due to others loathing and shaming them is groundless. These people feel that way anywhere, in Norway and Iceland or in Alabama and ISIS-controlled Syria, whether the place is 100% egalitarian or oppressive and even dangerous to life and limb, they're miserable, and that's why tolerance is not enough for many of them. They demand acceptance of their disorder as being a healthy "sexual orientation" and alternative to heterosexuality. When society does that, it becomes disordered itself, as is evident now in Western society. Look at those videos and images that I embedded in that post. What you're seeing there is healthy and good for society?

I also provided a link to a video about ITC (i.e. Instrumental Transcommunication), take a look at it. Those are non-biological entities or minds. Actually, I'm going to provide you with the link here:

​

These entities are speaking in German in the beginning of the video. I'm an ITC researcher and I've confirmed their existence for myself. What influence or impact do these beings have upon our thinking and behavior, including our sexual orientation? There's more to existence, to the world that we can normally detect with our five senses and technology.

You seem be rambling and not actually addressing my post.
I'm not going to address the effects that spirts have on homosexual behavior.

 

[Red Front]

You seem be rambling and not actually addressing my post.
I'm not going to address the effects that spirts have on homosexual behavior.

You're correct, I didn't read your response thoroughly enough and I was rambling. Nonetheless, it seems a stretch to deny that the APA declassified homosexuality as a paraphilia, based upon scientific evidence or a thorough study, in light of the circumstances present at the time of the declassification. The APA and its members were being threatened with death by gay activists, who were disrupting APA conventions and committing violent acts against its members.

The conditions that you mentioned for homosexuality qualifying as a disorder are indeed present in many homosexuals and not just the result of societal persecution or prejudice for the reasons that I mentioned. It's self-evident to most people, even if out of spite for conservative values they deny it, that homosexuality isn't a healthy alternative to heterosexuality.

As far as the spirits, did you take a look at the video?

 

[Lesh]

You seem be rambling and not actually addressing my post.
I'm not going to address the effects that spirts have on homosexual behavior.

He's an idiot. He's a fake liberal

 

[Red Front]

He's an idiot. He's a fake liberal

I never claimed to be a liberal.

 

[Lesh]

I never claimed to be a liberal.

I don't know what you are...but i know you're not honest

 

[Red Front]

I don't know what you are...but i know you're not honest

Really? Why do you believe that?

 

[Flopper]

At least the government


A simple response is asking you the same question but replacing the word "government" with "private sector" or capitalists. At least government officials are a lot more accountable to the public that they serve than a privately owned business enterprise (of course, assuming the government is a democracy). Why should the American people hand over their commonwealth to a businessman or capitalist? All of those tens of billions of dollars are being deposited in the private checking accounts of billionaires. Why? I'll rather have that money go to the public treasury where it can be used to build and maintain our nation's infrastructure and projects (being used for the public good, not to buy more Ferraris for a rich guy). You've bought into the false narrative and propaganda of your capitalist masters who hate government, especially if it's democratic. Government can be when the citizenry is well informed and educated, the power of the people. The commons, the public has power in a democracy, more so than the rich elite, the corporations.

In the first phase of socialism, the heavy industries are owned by the people and there can be a private sector for consumer goods and services. As production technology advances there comes a point where there's no practical need for a private sector. The consumer can easily organize production through worker cooperatives, replacing the private for-profit enterprise. That's a necessity once technology greatly reduces wage labor. With the significant loss or complete elimination of wage labor, the need for socialist production in all sectors of the economy is required. Employing advanced technology, worker-cooperatives organize production teams that produce all of the consumer goods and services that the public needs and wants. That's pure socialism, until the technology advances further, allowing the individual consumer, without the need for worker-cooperatives, to produce all of the products and services that they consume and need. The more autonomy or independence the consumer has over the means of production, the more socialism transforms itself into high-communism.

I certainly agree that goverment is more accountable to the public than the private sector because the private sector is only accountable to stock holders. However, I disagree with your point, that as production technology advances there comes a point where there's no practical need for a private sector. The history of governments that were committed to socialism tell a different story. Russia, China, and Cuba were each built on a financial foundation of socialism and each has turned to capitalism. In Cuba, the private sector ownership has gone from 8% to 22.% since 1981. Also Cuba is opening various parts of the economy, mainly tourism to foreign investors. China which began as a government totally committed to socialist has become a system of regulated capitalism . And Russia. the birthplace of socialist government is now a Capitalist Autocracy.

I noticed you recently joined USMB. I have found that on this board, a shorter post covering a single point is more likely to get responses than a long multiscreen post with multiple points.

 

[Flopper]

You're correct, I didn't read your response thoroughly enough and I was rambling. Nonetheless, it seems a stretch to deny that the APA declassified homosexuality as a paraphilia, based upon scientific evidence or a thorough study, in light of the circumstances present at the time of the declassification. The APA and its members were being threatened with death by gay activists, who were disrupting APA conventions and committing violent acts against its members.

The conditions that you mentioned for homosexuality qualifying as a disorder are indeed present in many homosexuals and not just the result of societal persecution or prejudice for the reasons that I mentioned. It's self-evident to most people, even if out of spite for conservative values they deny it, that homosexuality isn't a healthy alternative to heterosexuality.

As far as the spirits, did you take a look at the video?

I seriously doubt that threats from gay activists had any role in the decisions by APA, American Counsel of Psychological Therapists, AMA, WHO, and hundreds of psychiatric and medical associations around the world

Listing homosexuality as a mental illness in the DSM services no purpose other than to increase discrimination, stigmatization, homophobia and assist those that believe homosexuals should be lock away as criminals and degenerates.

The lack of common symptoms makes it clear that homosexuality can not be classified as a mental illness and since there are no accepted treatments for homosexuality, listing it in the DSM provides no help for the therapist or patient but rather is a distraction away from a diagnosis and treatment that can help the patient.

 

[Red Front]

I seriously doubt that threats from gay activists had any role in the decisions by APA, American Counsel of Psychological Therapists, AMA, WHO, and hundreds of psychiatric and medical associations around the world

Listing homosexuality as a mental illness in the DSM services no purpose other than to increase discrimination, stigmatization, homophobia and assist those that believe homosexuals should be lock away as criminals and degenerates.

The lack of common symptoms makes it clear that homosexuality can not be classified as a mental illness and since there are no accepted treatments for homosexuality, listing it in the DSM provides no help for the therapist or patient but rather is a distraction away from a diagnosis and treatment that can help the patient.

They were simply following their American colleagues (who in many ways set the bar for everyone else) and throughout the West, there were mass gay protests and violent actions against psychiatry.

Actually the very opposite is true with respect to classifying homosexuality as a paraphilia or sexual disorder. People would actually have more reasons to be tolerant and compassionate because their condition would be seen as something beyond their control. If you declassify it, stripping it of its mental illness status, then it's definitely more likely to be seen as sexual depravity and perversion. The common symptoms are depression, and a much higher prevalence of suicide, among a number of other conditions, which you conveniently dismiss as being caused by bigotry, and homophobia. Shifting the cause to external factors and completely ignoring the fact that homosexuals show the same negative symptoms everywhere, not just in societies where they're mistreated. Their problems are prevalent everywhere, whether they live in Norway or in Alabama.