Zone1 Why do so many atheists seem to want to attack religion?

[SweetSue92]

Atheism is not a monolith, so I'll acknowledge that before it even goes there.

Many though, in my opinion, behave just the way I'm describing. Atheism sometimes feels less like its own worldview and more like a reaction to religion; a counter-brand built against theology rather than something for itself. If faith brings peace and meaning to so many decent people, why disrupt that? Why try to hurt people with what you believe to be a devastating truth? Shouldn't the truth of its devastation trigger your empathy to restrain yourself? Is the pursuit of being right worth more than compassion? Can skepticism coexist with kindness, or does it always have to provoke conflict?

Could we maybe respect belief without surrendering critical thought? What do you think? Is there a middle ground, or is this a cultural war destined to rage forever?

The obsession to prove theists wrong isn’t bravery. It’s insecurity framed as enlightenment, and tribalism framed as skepticism. Why chain others with the burden of your disbelief? If your cause is truth, why inflict suffering in its name? Maybe some people need their faith to survive. Maybe your relentless assault only feeds their fear and resentment.

So what are you really fighting for?

TBH most atheists I have met in person and online are very angry at the God they don't believe in.

Not all, by a long shot. The ones who aren't viciously angry I can take more seriously. The ones who are just angry, it's mostly not a rational thing for them. They had a terrible church experience, or just hate most everything.

 

[cnm]

An agnostic does not believe it is possible to know or not know of God’s existence.

Your main argument here is that you know the God of Abraham cannot be God. That disqualifies you as being agnostic.

I imagine you insist Thor cannot be god. By your logic, that would qualify you as atheist.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't know if it's optimism, but maybe you're right. Maybe being optimistic in the face of darkness is the bravest and most worthy thing we can do.

This is no personal potshot to anyone here, but atheism is the darkest thing I can imagine. In atheism, you can pretend your life has meaning, but in the end, you're a bag of stardust on an outbound planet doomed for destruction and then, worm food.

The ultimate "eat drink and be merry--for tomorrow we die".

 

[Anomalism]

This is no personal potshot to anyone here, but atheism is the darkest thing I can imagine. In atheism, you can pretend your life has meaning, but in the end, you're a bag of stardust on an outbound planet doomed for destruction and then, worm food.

The ultimate "eat drink and be merry--for tomorrow we die".

Meaning can be subjective, Sue. It doesn't have to have some objective universal relevance. It just has to be meaningful to you. You don't have to live forever for your existence to have been meaningful. It happened. You lived. You loved, and that's sacred even after we are all gone.

 

[Anomalism]

I imagine you insist Thor cannot be god. By your logic, that would qualify you as atheist.

I really can't express how much I would love it if Valhalla was a real thing. Lol

 

[PeterPilot]

Yes, because it makes no effort to look at the good it’s done. You are only looking at half the picture. Objectivity requires looking at both sides. There’s no objectivity in attacks.

I happily admit that for some individuals and in many cases the organized religions provide beneficial services to society. They provide social services and charities. Some individuals get peace from participating in organized religions, and that's fine by me.

I strongly support the letter and spirit of the First Amendment. Government should be neutral in all religious matters, as the founders said. Trouble comes when religious zealots coopt the halls and processes of government, as we see with Trump making it a crime to criticize the Israeli State.

 

[Grumblenuts]

This is no personal potshot to anyone here, but atheism is the darkest thing I can imagine. In atheism, you can pretend your life has meaning, but in the end, you're a bag of stardust on an outbound planet doomed for destruction and then, worm food.

The ultimate "eat drink and be merry--for tomorrow we die".

What, no fire and brimstone? What's "an outbound planet doomed for destruction"? Outbound from where? Or were you just being redundant?

 

[cnm]

​

An agnostic does not believe it is possible to know or not know of God’s existence.

Your main argument here is that you know the God of Abraham cannot be God. That disqualifies you as being agnostic.

agnostic noun someone who believes that one can know only about material things and so believes that nothing can be known about the existence of God. ​

 

[cnm]

where God doesn't make themselves physically known?

But he has. He was born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer death to reconcile justice with mercy.

Sure.

Further, you stipulate Jesus is a god. That's interesting. I would take that to mean he's always been a god.

 

[ding]

Well, I guess I'll never be able to get any peace or joy from my suffering or the suffering of others but I'm OK with that.

Exactly. Until you aren’t.

 

[ding]

I think you've communicated well the value of your faith to you. I don't see it as a value I share or desire.


Some serious circular reasoning you got there.

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices and not all choices lead to equal outcomes. Some choices lead to better outcomes and some choices lead to worse outcomes. So we are constantly getting feedback from our choices. Pretty simple concept, right?

How was saying it’s because of Jesus Christ I am certain that God exists, is moralistic and providential circular reasoning?

 

[ding]

I imagine you insist Thor cannot be god. By your logic, that would qualify you as atheist.

Incorrect. I believe in God. I believe I am spirit and material.

Atheists believe that the only thing that exists is the material.

Agnostics don’t know and believe it is not possible to know

 

[ding]

I happily admit that for some individuals and in many cases the organized religions provide beneficial services to society. They provide social services and charities. Some individuals get peace from participating in organized religions, and that's fine by me.

I strongly support the letter and spirit of the First Amendment. Government should be neutral in all religious matters, as the founders said. Trouble comes when religious zealots coopt the halls and processes of government, as we see with Trump making it a crime to criticize the Israeli State.

Trouble comes when people behave poorly. No one group has cornered that market. Within any group a distribution will exist. As for specific individuals no one is all good or all bad.

 

[alang1216]

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices and not all choices lead to equal outcomes. Some choices lead to better outcomes and some choices lead to worse outcomes. So we are constantly getting feedback from our choices. Pretty simple concept, right?

Simplistic concept, yes.

How was saying it’s because of Jesus Christ I am certain that God exists, is moralistic and providential circular reasoning?

Isn't JC an aspect of God? So you're saying God exists because God exists.

 

[ding]

​

agnostic noun someone who believes that one can know only about material things and so believes that nothing can be known about the existence of God. ​

Exactly

 

[ding]

Isn't JC an aspect of God? So you're saying God exists because God exists.

I’m using the evidence at my disposal to conclude Jesus is incarnate. There’s nothing circular about it.

 

[ding]

Simplistic concept, yes.

And true. The truth usually hurts before it helps.

 

[ding]

Sure.

Further, you stipulate Jesus is a god. That's interesting. I would take that to mean he's always been a god.

View attachment 1137547

No offense but I don’t care what you take it to mean. The Trinity is not a mystery to be solved. It’s a relationship to be entered into.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Atheists believe that the only thing that exists is the material.

Ding Baloney!

Some atheists may believe that. Some theists may believe in purely physical gods. Some people believe in the Easter Bunny.

Meanwhile, by definition, atheists simply lack belief in gods:

What is Atheism?

Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods. It is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about a person.

www.atheists.org

(And, if you're not a bot, Bot Verification)

 

[Grumblenuts]

agnostic noun someone who believes that one can know only about material things and so believes that nothing can be known about the existence of God. ​

Not exactly.

From my Atheist Alliance link above:

What is agnosticism?​

Theism and atheism tell us about a person’s belief in gods. Agnosticism and Gnosticism tell us what a person claims to know, not what they believe. Because atheism and agnosticism are different things, it is possible to be both an atheist and an agnostic. An agnostic atheist does not believe in any gods but does not claim to know that no gods exist.

It works the same with theism. It is possible to be an agnostic theist—a person who believes in God but does not claim to know God exists. In practice though, most believers are gnostic theists—they believe in God and claim to know God exists. Interestingly, most atheists are agnostic atheists.

Some people self-describe as agnostic when they cannot decide what to believe. That’s fine, but if they do not actually believe in a god, they are not theists, so they must be atheists.