Why do people say political lobbying is a major problem in the US and is nothing but bribery? (Congress, illegal?

[Parker99]

They go on to say both parties are corrupted because of the political lobbying and the problem is really bad in the US. How did the political lobbying get started and so out of control where I believe Europe and the UK have much stricter laws on political lobbying.


quote It's illegal to give money directly to a politician. That's bribery. You can't even pay for their meal.

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of ways to get around that restriction and bribe politicians indirectly. quote

What do they mean when people say that, can some one here elaborate on that.

Also I thought there was suppose to be limits how much money a person or business can give to political party or person running for government?

 

[toobfreak]

They go on to say both parties are corrupted because of the political lobbying and the problem is really bad in the US.

Money corrupts politics just as it corrupts justice. You cannot have true justice so long as your access to it depends on how much money you have (that would imply that being rich makes you more innocent), just as money should play no hand in politics because then it becomes a matter of who can buy the most ads.

Abraham Lincoln was a poor man. Most honest people tend to be poor.

Running for office and the selection of candidates should be based on integrity, character, and who has the best ideas instead of who can raise the most money from lobbyists whom they then owe favors to.

But then, such a system would require an intelligent, informed electorate, and we don't have that, mostly by government fiat, so that they can better run a corrupt system.

 

[forkup]

They go on to say both parties are corrupted because of the political lobbying and the problem is really bad in the US. How did the political lobbying get started and so out of control where I believe Europe and the UK have much stricter laws on political lobbying.


quote It's illegal to give money directly to a politician. That's bribery. You can't even pay for their meal.

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of ways to get around that restriction and bribe politicians indirectly. quote

What do they mean when people say that, can some one here elaborate on that.

Also I thought there was suppose to be limits how much money a person or business can give to political party or person running for government?

The reason lobbying is so bad in the US is because how getting elected works there.

First in most European countries election campaigns are funded by the taxpayer. They're also regulated in both scope and time. Meaning that in order to get elected, a politician in Europe is beholding to nobody in particular.

The US elections are funded privately, and aren't really regulated in time or scope. Meaning that politicians who want to be elected need to be funded by donors. This creates an entirely different incentive structure. Where lobbying groups often make the difference between getting elected or not.

This is made worse since SCOTUS decided to allow unlimited funds put in SUPER PAC's the only restriction being that those funds aren't under direct control of the campaigns. Notice that direct control leaves a lot of leeway.

Finally to make matters still worse, SCOTUS recently came out with another ruling stating that rewarding a politician for acts done while in office is perfectly legal, as long as those rewards don't go to him while still serving.

 

[Edgetho]

The reason lobbying is so bad in the US is because how getting elected works there.

First in most European countries election campaigns are funded by the taxpayer. They're also regulated in both scope and time. Meaning that in order to get elected a politician in Europe is beholding to nobody in particular.

The US elections are funded privately, and aren't really regulated in time or scope. Meaning that politicians who want to be elected need to be funded by donors. This creates an entirely different incentive structure. Where lobbying groups often make the difference between getting elected or not.

This is made worse since SCOTUS decided to allow unlimited funds put in SUPER PAC's the only restriction being that those funds aren't under direct control of the campaigns. Notice that direct control leaves a lot of leeway.

Finally to make matters still worse, SCOTUS recently came out with another ruling stating that rewarding a politician for acts done while in office is perfectly legal, as long as those rewards don't go to him while still serving.

First -- Europe is a shithole. In Britain they just imprisoned a man for chanting during a demonstration.

So don't you fucking DARE to lecture us about -- Anything. We should have let Hitler have your sorry asses. Never again. Never again should we shed one drop of blood for you sorry fucks.

Sutton man, 61, who chanted ‘who the f*** is Allah’ is jailed for 18 months

David Spring made threatening gestures at police and chanted “who the f*** is Allah” during large-scale disorder in Whitehall.

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk

Sutton man, 61, who chanted ‘who the f*** is Allah’ is jailed for 18 months​

 

[wamose]

Lobbying is bribery, ex office holders should be prohibited from becoming lobbyists. If we had an infallible lie detector machine or test, we could eliminate most of our government corruption. With AI and all the modern technology, I think such a machine is very possible. But I think our establishment, the same people who are fighting Trump, would resist a perfect lie detector as strongly as they resist Trump. Robbers gotta rob, liars gotta lie. MAGA

 

[forkup]

First -- Europe is a shithole. In Britain they just imprisoned a man for chanting during a demonstration.

So don't you fucking DARE to lecture us about -- Anything. We should have let Hitler have your sorry asses. Never again. Never again should we shed one drop of blood for you sorry fucks.

Sutton man, 61, who chanted ‘who the f*** is Allah’ is jailed for 18 months

David Spring made threatening gestures at police and chanted “who the f*** is Allah” during large-scale disorder in Whitehall.

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk

Sutton man, 61, who chanted ‘who the f*** is Allah’ is jailed for 18 months​

Wow, triggered much?

I have accurately described the differences in how elections are conducted in the US and Europe. I can't help the US system condones open corruption.

By the way, it's funny how Trump supporters get triggered. I distinctly remember the "drain the swamp" slogan. Seems you like swamps if it gets you power.

As for Europe being a shithole. My wife is American, my daughter has dual nationality. I lived in both Europe and the US. My wife, although homesick doesn't want our family to leave here anymore. Because she, as I know, that our standard of living would be worse in the US. I have 20 days of a year paid vacation, not including overtime, meaning I'm off for 2 to 3 months a year, paid sick leave, affordable healthcare, maternity and paternity leave, college without debt, etc. etc.. Sure I can get paid way more in the US but would lose all those benefits. Work, at home time being the biggest loss.

I know both system. And I prefer my shithole.

 

[forkup]

Lobbying is bribery, ex office holders should be prohibited from becoming lobbyists. If we had an infallible lie detector machine or test, we could eliminate most of our government corruption. With AI and all the modern technology, I think such a machine is very possible. But I think our establishment, the same people who are fighting Trump, would resist a perfect lie detector as strongly as they resist Trump. Robbers gotta rob, liars gotta lie. MAGA

Ex politicians aren't even prohibited from openly getting money for shit they've done while in office. Something that SCOTUS decided along party lines. It wasn't Democrats who got their way. I promise you.

 

[Plagerist]

The reason lobbying is so bad in the US is because how getting elected works there.

First in most European countries election campaigns are funded by the taxpayer. They're also regulated in both scope and time. Meaning that in order to get elected, a politician in Europe is beholding to nobody in particular.

The US elections are funded privately, and aren't really regulated in time or scope. Meaning that politicians who want to be elected need to be funded by donors. This creates an entirely different incentive structure. Where lobbying groups often make the difference between getting elected or not.

This is made worse since SCOTUS decided to allow unlimited funds put in SUPER PAC's the only restriction being that those funds aren't under direct control of the campaigns. Notice that direct control leaves a lot of leeway.

Finally to make matters still worse, SCOTUS recently came out with another ruling stating that rewarding a politician for acts done while in office is perfectly legal, as long as those rewards don't go to him while still serving.

There is plenty of private money donated in European elections. Stop talking.

 

[Plagerist]

I have accurately described the differences in how elections are conducted in the US and Europe.

You've only mucked up the thread with dumb. Go back to sleep.

 

[Edgetho]

Lobbying is bribery, ex office holders should be prohibited from becoming lobbyists. If we had an infallible lie detector machine or test, we could eliminate most of our government corruption. With AI and all the modern technology, I think such a machine is very possible. But I think our establishment, the same people who are fighting Trump, would resist a perfect lie detector as strongly as they resist Trump. Robbers gotta rob, liars gotta lie. MAGA

Lobbying is the only way many small industries, small businesses and individuals can be heard by Congresscritters.

Say you've got a problem with the EPA. They want to choke your diesel tractors out of existence(they do) and nobody is listening at the EPA because, well frankly -- They're a bunch of radical, RADICAL communists.

So you want to Lobby to get the EPA to stop putting stupid shit on your tractors that causes them to break down every 5 minutes.

The DISGUSTING FILTH in the Lame Stream Media isn't going to take up your case. They're worse communists than the EPA is. So you have to get together with a bunch of other Farmers and try to Lobby Congress.

Same with -- Everything.

Huge Industries and HUGE Businesses don't have a problem getting Congress to listen. The little guy can get lost in the shuffle and often does.

Is there corruption in Lobbying? Duh. Of course there is. Any time politicians are involved, there is corruption.

Sorry, life isn't perfect.

 

[Plagerist]

It wasn't Democrats who got their way. I promise you.

Oooo, mister authority promises. Guess everyone should look at him in awe.

 

[Plagerist]

Right, let's raise taxes 50x so we can fund the perfect ratio of red-to-white-to-blue balloons at political conventions.

 

[Edgetho]

Wow, triggered much?

I have accurately described the differences in how elections are conducted in the US and Europe. I can't help the US system condones open corruption.

By the way, it's funny how Trump supporters get triggered. I distinctly remember the "drain the swamp" slogan. Seems you like swamps if it gets you power.

None of what you said allays the fact that EUROPE IS A SHITHOLE.

Stay out of our business and try to fix the shithole you live in. Like -- You know ------ Russia?

 

[wamose]

Ex politicians aren't even prohibited from openly getting money for shit they've done while in office. Something that SCOTUS decided along party lines. It wasn't Democrats who got their way. I promise you.

I really don't care which party is lying, robbing and cheating. I want it all to stop, and a lie detector could do just that. It could also save a lot of time and money currently being wasted on trials and investigations. And the best thing is it would be fair to everybody and save us a shitload of money. Of course crooked politicians would hate it so I wouldn't ever expect this to become reality. Back to MAGA

 

[forkup]

There is plenty of private money donated in European elections. Stop talking.

I said in general. I know for a fact it's ILLEGAL were I live. Today in History: Frank 'Burn the money' Vandenbroucke resigns after Agusta scandal

The then head of NATO had to resign and went to jail over this.

 

[forkup]

Oooo, mister authority promises. Guess everyone should look at him in awe.

No. You can look at the who voted for and against. Do you assert I'm not telling the truth?

 

[forkup]

Right, let's raise taxes 50x so we can fund the perfect ratio of red-to-white-to-blue balloons at political conventions.

The US raised about 2 trillion dollars in federal taxes in 2023. Even if you keep the expenses as they are. All election campaigns put together wouldn't even dent that. And there's no reason you should not regulate on what and how election campaigns can spend money.

 

[forkup]

You've only mucked up the thread with dumb. Go back to sleep.

Lol I'm the only one who DIRECTLY addressed the premise of the OP.

 

[forkup]

None of what you said allays the fact that EUROPE IS A SHITHOLE.

Stay out of our business and try to fix the shithole you live in. Like -- You know ------ Russia?

As for Europe being a shithole. My wife is American, my daughter has dual nationality. I lived in both Europe and the US. My wife, although homesick doesn't want our family to leave here anymore. Because she, as I know, that our standard of living would be worse in the US. I have 20 days of a year paid vacation, not including overtime, meaning I'm off for 2 to 3 months a year, paid sick leave, affordable healthcare, maternity and paternity leave, college without debt, etc. etc.. Sure I can get paid way more in the US but would lose all those benefits. Work pleasure time being the biggest loss.

As for Russia. The EU is spending a serious amount of money trying to "fix" Russia. By virtue of booting them out of Ukraine. Something that quite a few people in the MAGA crowd have a problem with.

 

[wamose]

Lobbying is the only way many small industries, small businesses and individuals can be heard by Congresscritters.

Say you've got a problem with the EPA. They want to choke your diesel tractors out of existence(they do) and nobody is listening at the EPA because, well frankly -- They're a bunch of radical, RADICAL communists.

So you want to Lobby to get the EPA to stop putting stupid shit on your tractors that causes them to break down every 5 minutes.

The DISGUSTING FILTH in the Lame Stream Media isn't going to take up your case. They're worse communists than the EPA is. So you have to get together with a bunch of other Farmers and try to Lobby Congress.

Same with -- Everything.

Huge Industries and HUGE Businesses don't have a problem getting Congress to listen. The little guy can get lost in the shuffle and often does.

Is there corruption in Lobbying? Duh. Of course there is. Any time politicians are involved, there is corruption.

Sorry, life isn't perfect.

If the big corporate farm that gives politicians enormous campaign contributions and other perks feels threatened by your band of peons, they'll buy the laws they want and price you right out if they have a mind to. Lobbying, as a way to let your concerns be heard, is fine but when you enter money into the deal, it becomes bribery. And that's not a game the small guy can win.