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Why Do Most American Blacks...

RoshawnMarkwees

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...still speak with a southern dialect regardless of where they live?
I want to see how racist segregationist lefties and democrats scramble to explain this.
Dialect is a betrayal of culture. Blacks segregate themselves with the blessing of democrats and condescending whities. It shows up in their accent.
 

Pogo

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Ah good, a linguistic question.

Enslaved Africans overwhelmingly picked up their English in the South, from their 'owners'. That would have been the model they had to emulate.

Having learned and transmitted that language to their own families and spheres, it becomes that culture's dialect.

By the time Emancipation hits centuries later, and by the time industrialization brings the Great Migration to the North and Midwest, that dialect is well-established. For centuries.

Just as any other regional dialect of New Hamster or Texas or Appalachia.
 
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RoshawnMarkwees

RoshawnMarkwees

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Ah good, a linguistic question.

Enslaved Africans overwhelmingly picked up their English in the South, from their 'owners'. That would have been the model they had to emulate.

Having learned and transmitted that language to their own families and spheres, it becomes that culture's dialect.

By the time Emancipation hits centuries later, and by the time industrialization brings the Great Migration to the North and Midwest, that dialect is well-established. For centuries.

Just as any other regional dialect of New Hamster or Texas or Appalachia.
Very good.
Now explain why it has maintained beyond emigration to the north and for several generations beyond civil rights.
 

Pogo

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Ah good, a linguistic question.

Enslaved Africans overwhelmingly picked up their English in the South, from their 'owners'. That would have been the model they had to emulate.

Having learned and transmitted that language to their own families and spheres, it becomes that culture's dialect.

By the time Emancipation hits centuries later, and by the time industrialization brings the Great Migration to the North and Midwest, that dialect is well-established. For centuries.

Just as any other regional dialect of New Hamster or Texas or Appalachia.
Very good.
Now explain why it has maintained beyond emigration to the north and for several generations beyond civil rights.

Again --- dialect has nothing to do with "civil rights". It's fucking SPEECH.

I had a gf in California who still talked with the Massachusetts accent she grew up with. And I never once heard her say the words "dude" or "gnarly". These are patterns we all learn in infancy.

Changing those patterns requires conscious and vigilant work. I had to do it for broadcasting. But broadcasting expects, for whatever reason, a midwesternish "standard American" accent. Among one's own peers, one mirrors. That's another social function.

Now, a black person (or New English person, or Appalachian person, whatever) who wants to go into broadcasting will find it advantageous to standardize, but otherwise there's no reason to.
 
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Pogo

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C'mon, pony up you left wing hypocrites.
You got some splainin' to do.

How the fuck is either "hypocrisy" or "politics" related to dialect?
When the dialect transcends region in the name of skin color.

You don't take on the dialect of a region because you move there. That would be pretentious.

If you sit next to a lefthanded person --- do you start writing lefthanded? Again -- no reason to.
 
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RoshawnMarkwees

RoshawnMarkwees

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Ah good, a linguistic question.

Enslaved Africans overwhelmingly picked up their English in the South, from their 'owners'. That would have been the model they had to emulate.

Having learned and transmitted that language to their own families and spheres, it becomes that culture's dialect.

By the time Emancipation hits centuries later, and by the time industrialization brings the Great Migration to the North and Midwest, that dialect is well-established. For centuries.

Just as any other regional dialect of New Hamster or Texas or Appalachia.
Very good.
Now explain why it has maintained beyond emigration to the north and for several generations beyond civil rights.

Again --- dialect has nothing to do with "civil rights". It's fucking SPEECH.

I had a gf in California who still talked with the Massachusetts accent she grew up with. And I never once heard her say the words "dude" or "gnarly". These are patterns we all learn in infancy.

Changing those patterns requires conscious and vigilant work. I had to do it for broadcasting. But broadcasting expects, for whatever reason, a midwesternish "standard American" accent. Among one's own peers, one mirrors. That's another social function.

Now, a black person (or New English person, or Appalachian person, whatever) who wants to go into broadcasting will find it advantageous to standardize, but otherwise there's no reason to.
Most dialects dissipate upon assimilating into a new region. I moved from the Midwest to DC and eventually found myself unconsciously speaking with elements of the redneck DC dialect. When I went back to the Midwest to visit, it sounded as though my old friends spoke differently.
That's the natural course of assimilation. Blacks continue to speak that southern-infused dialect regardless of where they live because they segregate themselves. And claim racism.
Hypocrisy.
I'll give you credit for at least having the objectivity to respond.
 
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RoshawnMarkwees

RoshawnMarkwees

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C'mon, pony up you left wing hypocrites.
You got some splainin' to do.

How the fuck is either "hypocrisy" or "politics" related to dialect?
When the dialect transcends region in the name of skin color.

You don't take on the dialect of a region because you move there. That would be pretentious.

If you sit next to a lefthanded person --- do you start writing lefthanded? Again -- no reason to.
Lefthandedness is genetic. Dialect is environment.
People who assimilate unconcsiously assume the regional dialect. Those who segregate consciously don't.
 

Pogo

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C'mon, pony up you left wing hypocrites.
You got some splainin' to do.

How the fuck is either "hypocrisy" or "politics" related to dialect?
When the dialect transcends region in the name of skin color.

You don't take on the dialect of a region because you move there. That would be pretentious.

If you sit next to a lefthanded person --- do you start writing lefthanded? Again -- no reason to.
Lefthandedness is genetic. Dialect is environment.
People who assimilate unconcsiously assume the regional dialect.

No they absolutely do not. You can't change your own dialect "unconsciously". I've done it, and it's work. It requires study, conscious effort and re-training one's own infant patterns.

If you drive from New York into Québec, do you suddenly start speaking French?

Lefthandedness may be a genetic preference, but learning to write (or throw a baseball) is learned. There was a time when naturally lefthanded people were forced to write righthanded (Ronald Reagan was one, and it shows in his handwriting). The point is that you don't sit down and change hands just because that's what others around you are doing ----- you stay with what you learned in formative years.

Same with language. You learn an even earlier age to talk than you do to write.
 

Pogo

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Ah good, a linguistic question.

Enslaved Africans overwhelmingly picked up their English in the South, from their 'owners'. That would have been the model they had to emulate.

Having learned and transmitted that language to their own families and spheres, it becomes that culture's dialect.

By the time Emancipation hits centuries later, and by the time industrialization brings the Great Migration to the North and Midwest, that dialect is well-established. For centuries.

Just as any other regional dialect of New Hamster or Texas or Appalachia.
Very good.
Now explain why it has maintained beyond emigration to the north and for several generations beyond civil rights.

Again --- dialect has nothing to do with "civil rights". It's fucking SPEECH.

I had a gf in California who still talked with the Massachusetts accent she grew up with. And I never once heard her say the words "dude" or "gnarly". These are patterns we all learn in infancy.

Changing those patterns requires conscious and vigilant work. I had to do it for broadcasting. But broadcasting expects, for whatever reason, a midwesternish "standard American" accent. Among one's own peers, one mirrors. That's another social function.

Now, a black person (or New English person, or Appalachian person, whatever) who wants to go into broadcasting will find it advantageous to standardize, but otherwise there's no reason to.
Most dialects dissipate upon assimilating into a new region. I moved from the Midwest to DC and eventually found myself unconsciously speaking with elements of the redneck DC dialect. When I went back to the Midwest to visit, it sounded as though my old friends spoke differently.
That's the natural course of assimilation. Blacks continue to speak that southern-infused dialect regardless of where they live because they segregate themselves. And claim racism.
Hypocrisy.
I'll give you credit for at least having the objectivity to respond.

Bullshit. I have no doubt that, unless you've worked hard to assume a new accent that is not in your history AND you have a really good musical ear to mimic it, anyone who's a native of that moved-into region can pick you up in half a sentence as not from there.

I've been around deep-South accents since I was seven months old, not counting my own mother, and while I can mimic a word here or there I couldn't pass as a Mississippian.
 
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RoshawnMarkwees

RoshawnMarkwees

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C'mon, pony up you left wing hypocrites.
You got some splainin' to do.

How the fuck is either "hypocrisy" or "politics" related to dialect?
When the dialect transcends region in the name of skin color.

You don't take on the dialect of a region because you move there. That would be pretentious.

If you sit next to a lefthanded person --- do you start writing lefthanded? Again -- no reason to.
Lefthandedness is genetic. Dialect is environment.
People who assimilate unconcsiously assume the regional dialect.

No they absolutely do not. You can't change your own dialect "unconsciously". I've done it, and it's work. It requires study, conscious effort and re-training one's own infant patterns.

If you drive from New York into Québec, do you suddenly start speaking French?

Lefthandedness may be a genetic preference, but learning to write (or throw a baseball) is learned. There was a time when naturally lefthanded people were forced to write righthanded (Ronald Reagan was one, and it shows in his handwriting). The point is that you don't sit down and change hands just because that's what others around you are doing ----- you stay with what you learned in formative years.

Same with language. You learn an even earlier age to talk than you do to write.
You're digressing with the handedness argument. It takes a conscious effort to go against the grain of your handed nature.
Dialects evolve. Languages are learned. Dialects evolve.
Blacks segregate themselves (racism) and maintain that southern dialect as a result.
No one dares challenge that obvious racism for fear of political castigation.
 
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RoshawnMarkwees

RoshawnMarkwees

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Ah good, a linguistic question.

Enslaved Africans overwhelmingly picked up their English in the South, from their 'owners'. That would have been the model they had to emulate.

Having learned and transmitted that language to their own families and spheres, it becomes that culture's dialect.

By the time Emancipation hits centuries later, and by the time industrialization brings the Great Migration to the North and Midwest, that dialect is well-established. For centuries.

Just as any other regional dialect of New Hamster or Texas or Appalachia.
Very good.
Now explain why it has maintained beyond emigration to the north and for several generations beyond civil rights.

Again --- dialect has nothing to do with "civil rights". It's fucking SPEECH.

I had a gf in California who still talked with the Massachusetts accent she grew up with. And I never once heard her say the words "dude" or "gnarly". These are patterns we all learn in infancy.

Changing those patterns requires conscious and vigilant work. I had to do it for broadcasting. But broadcasting expects, for whatever reason, a midwesternish "standard American" accent. Among one's own peers, one mirrors. That's another social function.

Now, a black person (or New English person, or Appalachian person, whatever) who wants to go into broadcasting will find it advantageous to standardize, but otherwise there's no reason to.
Most dialects dissipate upon assimilating into a new region. I moved from the Midwest to DC and eventually found myself unconsciously speaking with elements of the redneck DC dialect. When I went back to the Midwest to visit, it sounded as though my old friends spoke differently.
That's the natural course of assimilation. Blacks continue to speak that southern-infused dialect regardless of where they live because they segregate themselves. And claim racism.
Hypocrisy.
I'll give you credit for at least having the objectivity to respond.

Bullshit. I have no doubt that, unless you've worked hard to assume a new accent that is not in your history AND you have a really good musical ear to mimic it, anyone who's a native of that moved-into region can pick you up in half a sentence as not from there.

I've been around deep-South accents since I was seven months old, not counting my own mother, and while I can mimic a word here or there I couldn't pass as a Mississippian.
I don't argue any of that. While you won't shake yourself entirely of a previous unconsciously acquired dialect you will unconcsiously pick up aspects of a local dialect the longer you're there. Unless you're a self-segregating black.
What's more, your children will naturally develop the local dialect even if you dont. Unless you're a self-segregating black.
 
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Tipsycatlover

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Blacks do not speak with a southern California dialect. They all speak with the same black dialect no matter where they are from. No one else says AXE instead of ask.
 

WillowTree

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Ever listen to a professional black broadcaster? They speak perfect dialect free language!
 

xyz

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Blacks do not speak with a southern California dialect. They all speak with the same black dialect no matter where they are from. No one else says AXE instead of ask.
Some of the mispronunciations are rooted in illiteracy. Why they're allowed to prevail is political. Race politics.
Well, if you're going to take that point of view, then you have to say all American English is wrong, and the only correct speech is in England.

I will also say Black English is not necessarily Southern, there are also dialects of Southern Black English. I don't think black people in Mississippi and Louisiana talk exactly the same as in NYC.
 
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RoshawnMarkwees

RoshawnMarkwees

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Blacks do not speak with a southern California dialect. They all speak with the same black dialect no matter where they are from. No one else says AXE instead of ask.
Some of the mispronunciations are rooted in illiteracy. Why they're allowed to prevail is political. Race politics.
Well, if you're going to take that point of view, then you have to say all American English is wrong, and the only correct speech is in England.

I will also say Black English is not necessarily Southern, there are also dialects of Southern Black English. I don't think black people in Mississippi and Louisiana talk exactly the same as in NYC.
First off, I didn't say anything in the dialect was 'wrong'. I said it reflects culture and region. Black dialect reflects self-segregation.
Yes, black dialect morphs slightly, regionally, but it is entirely rooted in the south and transcends region due to self-segregating racism.
Imagine if all white people spoke with a Boston accent even though they lived in Texas, for instance, and did so in the name of whiteness. That would be an effective parallel.
 

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