Why Do Most American Blacks...

[Nia88]

You're making such a huge claim with no data to back it up.

Yes some northern blacks have southern accents because their parents were originally from the south and migrated to northern states.

I am black from Philly. My paternal grandparents migrated from south Carolina so they had accents. But my dad and his siblings do not have southern accents. They all have mid Atlantic accents like lost people in Philly do.

My maternal grandparents are from the north so no southern accents.

I really don't know where you're getting most blacks have southern accents from.

 

[Pogo]

Ah good, a linguistic question.

Enslaved Africans overwhelmingly picked up their English in the South, from their 'owners'. That would have been the model they had to emulate.

Having learned and transmitted that language to their own families and spheres, it becomes that culture's dialect.

By the time Emancipation hits centuries later, and by the time industrialization brings the Great Migration to the North and Midwest, that dialect is well-established. For centuries.

Just as any other regional dialect of New Hamster or Texas or Appalachia.

Very good.
Now explain why it has maintained beyond emigration to the north and for several generations beyond civil rights.

Again --- dialect has nothing to do with "civil rights". It's fucking SPEECH.

I had a gf in California who still talked with the Massachusetts accent she grew up with. And I never once heard her say the words "dude" or "gnarly". These are patterns we all learn in infancy.

Changing those patterns requires conscious and vigilant work. I had to do it for broadcasting. But broadcasting expects, for whatever reason, a midwesternish "standard American" accent. Among one's own peers, one mirrors. That's another social function.

Now, a black person (or New English person, or Appalachian person, whatever) who wants to go into broadcasting will find it advantageous to standardize, but otherwise there's no reason to.

Most dialects dissipate upon assimilating into a new region. I moved from the Midwest to DC and eventually found myself unconsciously speaking with elements of the redneck DC dialect. When I went back to the Midwest to visit, it sounded as though my old friends spoke differently.
That's the natural course of assimilation. Blacks continue to speak that southern-infused dialect regardless of where they live because they segregate themselves. And claim racism.
Hypocrisy.
I'll give you credit for at least having the objectivity to respond.

Bullshit. I have no doubt that, unless you've worked hard to assume a new accent that is not in your history AND you have a really good musical ear to mimic it, anyone who's a native of that moved-into region can pick you up in half a sentence as not from there.

I've been around deep-South accents since I was seven months old, not counting my own mother, and while I can mimic a word here or there I couldn't pass as a Mississippian.

I don't argue any of that. While you won't shake yourself entirely of a previous unconsciously acquired dialect you will unconcsiously pick up aspects of a local dialect the longer you're there. Unless you're a self-segregating black.
What's more, your children will naturally develop the local dialect even if you dont. Unless you're a self-segregating black.

Wrong. You don't pick up an accent that is not your native one "ünconsciously". Does not happen. Again, language is learned in infancy and is deeply ingrained.

Now, you can go learn a different language that is not your own and assimilate new sounds therein. But you don't learn French by going to France and just standing around. It takes initiative action. Same with dialect, except that's more difficult, because the differences are far more subtle. It's the same words with different diphthongs, maybe only very slightly different.

Correct about the children, even say children of immigrants who don't speak English. That's because they pick up their language --- including all the affectations of dialect and colloquialisms --- from their peers and not just their parents. And that's what "locally" MEANS in this context. One develops language from voices in one's own experience.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

You're making such a huge claim with no data to back it up.

Yes some northern blacks have southern accents because their parents were originally from the south and migrated to northern states.

I am black from Philly. My paternal grandparents migrated from south Carolina so they had accents. But my dad and his siblings do not have southern accents. They all have mid Atlantic accents like lost people in Philly do.

My maternal grandparents are from the north so no southern accents.

I really don't know where you're getting most blacks have southern accents from.

The dialect is rooted in the south. The result of European and African culture converging. Whites in that region spoke the same or very similar dialect. Blacks added some vocabulary as code and as a result of illiteracy.
Black southern English survived as blacks were forced into segregation upon emigrating north. However, the dialect has survived beyond civil rights and desegregation efforts and is maintained regardless of region and in the name of blackness as a result of self-segregation.
Pure political and cultural hypocrisy and racism.

 

[monkrules]

C'mon, pony up you left wing hypocrites.
You got some splainin' to do.

How the fuck is either "hypocrisy" or "politics" related to dialect?

When the dialect transcends region in the name of skin color.

You don't take on the dialect of a region because you move there. That would be pretentious.

If you sit next to a lefthanded person --- do you start writing lefthanded? Again -- no reason to.

Lefthandedness is genetic. Dialect is environment.
People who assimilate unconcsiously assume the regional dialect.

No they absolutely do not. You can't change your own dialect "unconsciously". I've done it, and it's work. It requires study, conscious effort and re-training one's own infant patterns.

If you drive from New York into Québec, do you suddenly start speaking French?

Lefthandedness may be a genetic preference, but learning to write (or throw a baseball) is learned. There was a time when naturally lefthanded people were forced to write righthanded (Ronald Reagan was one, and it shows in his handwriting). The point is that you don't sit down and change hands just because that's what others around you are doing ----- you stay with what you learned in formative years.

Same with language. You learn an even earlier age to talk than you do to write.

I've seen people who moved to different areas pick up the patterns of speech in their new surroundings. It's especially noticeable when a American has lived in the UK for a long time, then returned to the U.S., for instance.

Well educated blacks frequently seem to use standard English even though they may have been raised in the hood.

Uneducated blacks, on the other hand, often regard ANY change that mirrors the greater (white) community to be a sign that the person involved is a 'sell out'. They can put down other blacks who use proper English, or who dress nicely, for instance. I've heard black buddies call well-dressed blacks "Colored Persons" simply because they were wearing business attire and walking downtown, to lunch, or something.

My ex is a linguist maybe she would be able to explain it. But, thankfully, she's my ex. So I won't be able to ask her.

 

[Godboy]

You're making such a huge claim with no data to back it up.

Yes some northern blacks have southern accents because their parents were originally from the south and migrated to northern states.

I am black from Philly. My paternal grandparents migrated from south Carolina so they had accents. But my dad and his siblings do not have southern accents. They all have mid Atlantic accents like lost people in Philly do.

My maternal grandparents are from the north so no southern accents.

I really don't know where you're getting most blacks have southern accents from.

It doesnt bother you that black people sound like ignorant hicks? It probably should. Normal people feel pity when they encounter someone who doesnt speak well. We think less of them.

 

[aaronleland]

Why do black people like fried chicken?

 

[Nia88]

You're making such a huge claim with no data to back it up.

Yes some northern blacks have southern accents because their parents were originally from the south and migrated to northern states.

I am black from Philly. My paternal grandparents migrated from south Carolina so they had accents. But my dad and his siblings do not have southern accents. They all have mid Atlantic accents like lost people in Philly do.

My maternal grandparents are from the north so no southern accents.

I really don't know where you're getting most blacks have southern accents from.

It doesnt bother you that black people sound like ignorant hicks? It probably should. Normal people feel pity when they encounter someone who doesnt speak well. We think less of them.

The only one sounding like an ignorant hick is you.

It doesn't bother me because black people don't sound like ignorant hicks. I don't generalize that all white people sound like valley girls, so you shouldn't generalize that all black people sound ignorant.

Of course there are some black who sound ignorant but we don't all talk like that. The way people talk depends on their education and socioeconomic status, and even then you cannot generalize. My mother and her siblings grew up poor but my grandparents raised them to be very articulate.

 

[Pogo]

You're making such a huge claim with no data to back it up.

Yes some northern blacks have southern accents because their parents were originally from the south and migrated to northern states.

I am black from Philly. My paternal grandparents migrated from south Carolina so they had accents. But my dad and his siblings do not have southern accents. They all have mid Atlantic accents like lost people in Philly do.

My maternal grandparents are from the north so no southern accents.

I really don't know where you're getting most blacks have southern accents from.

The dialect is rooted in the south. The result of European and African culture converging. Whites in that region spoke the same or very similar dialect. Blacks added some vocabulary as code and as a result of illiteracy.
Black southern English survived as blacks were forced into segregation upon emigrating north. However, the dialect has survived beyond civil rights and desegregation efforts and is maintained regardless of region and in the name of blackness as a result of self-segregation.
Pure political and cultural hypocrisy and racism.

Again Stupid --- there is nothing "hypocritical" about using the speech pattern you learned as an infant. That's called "normal human development".



This thread died of Duh Stoopid.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

You're making such a huge claim with no data to back it up.

Yes some northern blacks have southern accents because their parents were originally from the south and migrated to northern states.

I am black from Philly. My paternal grandparents migrated from south Carolina so they had accents. But my dad and his siblings do not have southern accents. They all have mid Atlantic accents like lost people in Philly do.

My maternal grandparents are from the north so no southern accents.

I really don't know where you're getting most blacks have southern accents from.

The dialect is rooted in the south. The result of European and African culture converging. Whites in that region spoke the same or very similar dialect. Blacks added some vocabulary as code and as a result of illiteracy.
Black southern English survived as blacks were forced into segregation upon emigrating north. However, the dialect has survived beyond civil rights and desegregation efforts and is maintained regardless of region and in the name of blackness as a result of self-segregation.
Pure political and cultural hypocrisy and racism.

Again Stupid --- there is nothing "hypocritical" about using the speech pattern you learned as an infant. That's called "normal human development".



This thread died of Duh Stoopid.

And why should a fifth generation infant born in Minneapolis in 2017 be taught to speak a dialect rooted in a transplanted southern heritage from 1935?

 

[Unkotare]

This thread is a train wreck. The OP is based on subjective and inaccurate generalizations, and the bulk of the discussion has featured two people who clearly know nothing about linguistics trying to pretend as if they did.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

This thread is a train wreck. The OP is based on subjective and inaccurate generalizations, and the bulk of the discussion has featured two people who clearly know nothing about linguistics trying to pretend as if they did.

Speak for yourself, phony. If you can't hear the obvious influence of southern English in the typical high-profile black athlete interview then you need to stay out of this conversation.

 

[Unkotare]

This thread is a train wreck. The OP is based on subjective and inaccurate generalizations, and the bulk of the discussion has featured two people who clearly know nothing about linguistics trying to pretend as if they did.

Speak for yourself, phony.....

"Phony"? What do you mean?

 

[Unkotare]

..... If you can't hear the obvious influence of southern English in the typical high-profile black athlete interview then you need to stay out of this conversation.

This comment leads me to believe that you have little or no interactions with black Americans in your daily life.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

..... If you can't hear the obvious influence of southern English in the typical high-profile black athlete interview then you need to stay out of this conversation.

This comment leads me to believe that you have little or no interactions with black Americans in your daily life.

I live in an 85% black jurisdiction, have worked with almost exclusively black children in our school system for decades and I've played blues music professionally for almost 30 years. Outside of that I have very little involvement with self-segregating black culture.
Go get some perspective and then form an opinion.

 

[Unkotare]

..... If you can't hear the obvious influence of southern English in the typical high-profile black athlete interview then you need to stay out of this conversation.

This comment leads me to believe that you have little or no interactions with black Americans in your daily life.

I live in an 85% black jurisdiction, have worked with almost exclusively black children in our school system for decades and I've played blues music professionally for almost 30 years. .....

If that were so, it would be very curious that you reach such an oddly inaccurate generalization.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

..... If you can't hear the obvious influence of southern English in the typical high-profile black athlete interview then you need to stay out of this conversation.

This comment leads me to believe that you have little or no interactions with black Americans in your daily life.

I live in an 85% black jurisdiction, have worked with almost exclusively black children in our school system for decades and I've played blues music professionally for almost 30 years. .....

If that were so, it would be very curious that you reach such an oddly inaccurate generalization.

If you can't even recognize the dialect you have no business involving yourself in this discussion.

 

[Unkotare]

..... If you can't hear the obvious influence of southern English in the typical high-profile black athlete interview then you need to stay out of this conversation.

This comment leads me to believe that you have little or no interactions with black Americans in your daily life.

I live in an 85% black jurisdiction, have worked with almost exclusively black children in our school system for decades and I've played blues music professionally for almost 30 years. .....

If that were so, it would be very curious that you reach such an oddly inaccurate generalization.

If you can't even recognize the dialect you have no business involving yourself in this discussion.

I recognize that you are proceeding from a preconceived and mistaken notion, and that you are conflating accent and dialect. You and Captain Dilettante can keep arguing over your imagination if you like.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

..... If you can't hear the obvious influence of southern English in the typical high-profile black athlete interview then you need to stay out of this conversation.

This comment leads me to believe that you have little or no interactions with black Americans in your daily life.

I live in an 85% black jurisdiction, have worked with almost exclusively black children in our school system for decades and I've played blues music professionally for almost 30 years. .....

If that were so, it would be very curious that you reach such an oddly inaccurate generalization.

If you can't even recognize the dialect you have no business involving yourself in this discussion.

I recognize that you are proceeding from a preconceived and mistaken notion, and that you are conflating accent and dialect. You and Captain Dilettante can keep arguing over your imagination if you like.

Accent and dialect are not mutually exclusive.
You're either dodging the obvious or you have no clue.