Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?

[Cougarbear]

Are you familiar with American baseball? Do you know what "3 strikes" mean? In my last respnse I wrote that I didn't want to insult you. But now you've got 2 strikes against you. Not wanting to insult you doesn't mean that I don't know how. One more strike and you'll find out.

Are you like 10 years old? By calling me a cult you insulted me. Childish rant. So, I’ll ask you questions. See if you can be an adult and logically answer them:
1. Why do you go to strawman arguments when shown that the Bible states baptisms are required?
2. Why do you claim to use a direct quote that there is one God objecting to the possibility of three separate personages making up God (Godhead) while demanding the Book of Mark is fake and dismiss Jesus stating clearly baptism by water and spirit is required to enter The Kingdom of God?
3. Jesus’s Church he was building is known as a cult. He was preaching something the mainstream religious body believed to be heretical. So, they called Jesus a cult leader. Was Jesus teaching something different than what he taught as Jehovah in the Old Testament?
4. We are gods:

 

[Cougarbear]

For the sake of full disclosure... are you a Muslim?

He could be Jewish or Protestant or Catholic. The Apostolic Creeds all state there is one God that can shapeshift into 3 different personages. The most dynamic of these events was at Jesus's baptism when he came up out of the water, he did a ventriloquist act talking from heaven as the Father. Then, he somehow took part of him and became a dove and covered himself. Quite a spectacular event. No, there are three separated personages so that none of the three have to lie or confuse people. The three are "one" in agreement, purpose, and authority.

 

[ding]

He could be Jewish or Protestant or Catholic.

He's not.

 

[Cougarbear]

He's not.

Are you sure?

 

[ding]

Are you sure?

95%. He's anti-Israel, lives in the UK. He's Muslim. Read his signature line and click the video link.

It's ironic that I was defending Islam the other day and he's attacking Christianity.

 

[Cougarbear]

95%. He's anti-Israel, lives in the UK. He's Muslim. Read his signature line and click the video link.

It's ironic that I was defending Islam the other day and he's attacking Christianity.

They don't think they need any defending because they are such nasty mean people going around chopping off people's heads.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

They get around it. My grandmother was vehemently against it...but guess what, a year after she died, there she was on the LDS roster. She shared a great-great grandparent with an LDS someone. These people don't go back in time, they go forward as well, tracing all descendants of their own ancestors. My mom was against this practice, too, and not well at the time. I did all I could to hide her mom's "baptism" from her, knowing she could not handle it. I explained to an LDS friend how this was not right, and how it upset people of other denominations. Her response? Neener, neener, we're going to do it anyway. Even to you! And no one can stop us.

Isn't it wonderful how they honor God's gift of free will to all of us. They put their words into our mouths at a time we cannot speak for ourselves. It's disgusting. Why don't they just grab us off the street while we are alive and do it when we can fight back? Cowards.

This from the folks who baptized little babies &- something nowhere found in the scriptures. Pot, meet kettle

 

[GLASNOST]

Are you like 10 years old?

I have more wisdom than you can dream of.

By calling me a cult you insulted me.

I call Christianity a cult. The ”insult” (as you call it) is in correctly calling you a cult follower but I didn’t say that, anyway. I definitely do now, though.

So, I’ll ask you questions. See if you can be an adult and logically answer them:

OK. Let's find out.

1. Why do you go to strawman arguments

I don’t know what “strawman” means.

when shown that the Bible states baptisms are required?

The bible is a book of science fiction.

2. Why do you claim to use a direct quote that there is one God objecting to the possibility of three separate personages making up God

What a stupid question. Either there’s one God or there are 3 Gods. I believe in one, you believe in three. You may as well be a Hindu where people believe in several. Finding logic in a virgin being used as an applicant surrogate for the purpose of God cloning himself is laughable. I mean, seriously!

while demanding the Book of Mark is fake

Do you know what “demanding” means? No, you do not. Anyway, the book is not fake. It’s the fictional story within that’s fake. But that’s the definition of fiction, isn’t it? A made-up story. Mark wasn’t there to hear what Jesus said so anything he wrote is imaginary.

and dismiss Jesus stating clearly baptism by water and spirit is required to enter The Kingdom of God?

No one knows what he said but it is certain that if he did say that then he was a blasphemer and did not believe in God. This is the same reason that you do not believe in God. You are a follower of an anti-Creator cult theory and, thus, you yourself, are a blasphemer and anti-God.

3. Jesus’s Church he was building is known as a cult.

Is or was?

He was preaching something the mainstream religious body believed to be heretical.

If they did believe that then they were right.

So, they called Jesus a cult leader.

We still don’t know what the population called him. The bible is a book of fiction and we don’t know what part of it might have been true and what part is pure fantasy.

Was Jesus teaching something different than what he taught as Jehovah in the Old Testament?

!!* There’s the crux of your befuddlement. You read a fictional book and believe everything written in it. In doing so, you assume Jesus was an anti-God blasphemer and that God was/is an idiot. I do not agree with all of that. You are anti-God and that’s a fact. But that’s your problem, not mine. In mankind’s wish to understand the meaning of life, and how/why it was created the majority of people have gravitated to outrageous cocamamie explanations that either fit their own personal wants or make them feel adequately punished for their misdeeds.

4. We are gods:

No, you most definitely are not and there is your most blatant display of blasphemous thought. You must be a survivor of Jim Jones' house of madness & debauchery.

 

[Cougarbear]

I have more wisdom than you can dream of.

I call Christianity a cult. The ”insult” (as you call it) is in correctly calling you a cult follower but I didn’t say that, anyway. I definitely do now, though.

OK. Let's find out.

I don’t know what “strawman” means.

The bible is a book of science fiction.

What a stupid question. Either there’s one God or there are 3 Gods. I believe in one, you believe in three. You may as well be a Hindu where people believe in several. Finding logic in a virgin being used as an applicant surrogate for the purpose of God cloning himself is laughable. I mean, seriously!

Do you know what “demanding” means? No, you do not. Anyway, the book is not fake. It’s the fictional story within that’s fake. But that’s the definition of fiction, isn’t it? A made-up story. Mark wasn’t there to hear what Jesus said so anything he wrote is imaginary.

No one knows what he said but it is certain that if he did say that then he was a blasphemer and did not believe in God. This is the same reason that you do not believe in God. You are a follower of an anti-Creator cult theory and, thus, you yourself, are a blasphemer and anti-God.

Is or was?

If they did believe that then they were right.

We still don’t know what the population called him. The bible is a book of fiction and we don’t know what part of it might have been true and what part is pure fantasy.

!!* There’s the crux of your befuddlement. You read a fictional book and believe everything written in it. In doing so, you assume Jesus was an anti-God blasphemer and that God was/is an idiot. I do not agree with all of that. You are anti-God and that’s a fact. But that’s your problem, not mine. In mankind’s wish to understand the meaning of life, and how/why it was created the majority of people have gravitated to outrageous cocamamie explanations that either fit their own personal wants or make them feel adequately punished for their misdeeds.

No, you most definitely are not and there is your most blatant display of blasphemous thought. You must be a survivor of Jim Jones' house of madness & debauchery.

You are a waste of time. Trying to say Mark is fiction is ridiculous. The Bible is the word of God. And, if you want to use sick ministers to prove your bigotry you have plenty of sick Islamic terrorists of madness to point at.

 

[GLASNOST]

You are a waste of time.

You are unable to discuss or debate my superior knowledge and wisdom. If your purpose is to bluff your way out of your ignorance then yes ....... "a waste of time".

Trying to say Mark is fiction is ridiculous.

You don't even know what I said. Your lack of reading comprehension and understanding isn't helping you very much.

The Bible is the word of God.

No, it is not. The bible is made up of words (plural) by several primitive, hokus-pokus morons with camel hair holding tattered sandals on their feet.

And, if you want to use sick ministers to prove your bigotry

Your mindset is in-step with Jim Jones and his house of madness & debauchery. Whether or not you were actually a part of his entourage is unimportant. You are just as eager to follow any cult that resembles his and that is the main point.

*** Oh! I see that you failed to evaluate my ability "to logically answer your questions". I'm not surprised. I knew you'd sneak out the back door. You've been crushed. Utterly crushed.

 

[ding]

You are unable to discuss or debate my superior knowledge and wisdom. If your purpose is to bluff your way out of your ignorance then yes ....... "a waste of time".

You don't even know what I said. Your lack of reading comprehension and understanding isn't helping you very much.

No, it is not. The bible is made up of words (plural) by several primitive, hokus-pokus morons with camel hair holding tattered sandals on their feet.

Your mindset is in-step with Jim Jones and his house of madness & debauchery. Whether or not you were actually a part of his entourage is unimportant. You are just as eager to follow any cult that resembles his and that is the main point.

*** Oh! I see that you failed to evaluate my ability "to logically answer your questions". I'm not surprised. I knew you'd sneak out the back door. You've been crushed. Utterly crushed.

Are you really the best the Arabs can produce?

 

[Cougarbear]

You are unable to discuss or debate my superior knowledge and wisdom. If your purpose is to bluff your way out of your ignorance then yes ....... "a waste of time".

You don't even know what I said. Your lack of reading comprehension and understanding isn't helping you very much.

No, it is not. The bible is made up of words (plural) by several primitive, hokus-pokus morons with camel hair holding tattered sandals on their feet.

Your mindset is in-step with Jim Jones and his house of madness & debauchery. Whether or not you were actually a part of his entourage is unimportant. You are just as eager to follow any cult that resembles his and that is the main point.

*** Oh! I see that you failed to evaluate my ability "to logically answer your questions". I'm not surprised. I knew you'd sneak out the back door. You've been crushed. Utterly crushed.

 

[cnm]

Really, if cult members of Bronze Age desert superstitions want to carry out rituals they feel will assuage their gawd's anger or get them Brownie points with it, well, that's nothing new.

 

[Meriweather]

This from the folks who baptized little babies &- something nowhere found in the scriptures. Pot, meet kettle

For Catholics, Baptism is an act of faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins. This is why I vehemently reject and abhor the LDS practice of proxy baptism for the dead. I (and a massive amount of others) have already been baptized as an act of faith in JESUS CHRIST, while the LDS baptism is clearly an act of faith in the LDS Church, not Jesus. I adamantly reject the LDS faith and their additional additions to the Bible. They have no right to pretend, after my death, that I am any part of them. They should be ashamed of their own desperation to have followers and doubly ashamed for their lack of faith in Jesus and others already baptized in his name.

Try actually reading scripture. How many first came to Jesus, and whose sins were forgiven, through the faith of others? Because of these instances where people were saved through the great faith of others in Jesus, the Catholic Church has always baptized babies because of the faith the parents have in Christ. The LDS Church waits until a child is eight and can declare his/her own faith. There is nothing wrong with this....unless....parents are so uncertain of their own faith in Jesus that they feel it is best for any children to wait until they have some faith themselves.

 

[ding]

This from the folks who baptized little babies &- something nowhere found in the scriptures. Pot, meet kettle

The early church practiced infant baptism, with evidence suggesting it was a known, though possibly less common, tradition by the second century, becoming widespread by the third and universal by the fourth century, often linked to original sin and the apostolic tradition, though believers' baptism remained common, especially earlier on. Early Church Fathers like Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, and Cyprian mention it, and councils like the Council of Carthage (253 AD) took it for granted.

Key Points:

• Second Century: Mentions by Irenaeus and Tertullian suggest it existed, though Tertullian questioned its wisdom for young children, preferring delay.
• Third Century:
  
  Cyprian of Carthage
  strongly affirmed it as an apostolic tradition, and the Council of Carthage solidified its acceptance
  .
• • Fourth Century: Augustine reinforced its practice, leading to it becoming the standard, universal custom, though believers' baptism continued alongside it.
  • Origins: Some scholars suggest emergency baptisms for sick infants were a likely origin, later extending to general practice.
  • Debate: While widely accepted, some debates occurred, such as whether to baptize by the eighth day (like circumcision) or delay.

In summary, infant baptism wasn't a late innovation but rather an evolving, historically embedded practice within the ancient Church, alongside believers' baptism.

 

[Cougarbear]

For Catholics, Baptism is an act of faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins. This is why I vehemently reject and abhor the LDS practice of proxy baptism for the dead. I (and a massive amount of others) have already been baptized as an act of faith in JESUS CHRIST, while the LDS baptism is clearly an act of faith in the LDS Church, not Jesus. I adamantly reject the LDS faith and their additional additions to the Bible. They have no right to pretend, after my death, that I am any part of them. They should be ashamed of their own desperation to have followers and doubly ashamed for their lack of faith in Jesus and others already baptized in his name.

Try actually reading scripture. How many first came to Jesus, and whose sins were forgiven, through the faith of others? Because of these instances where people were saved through the great faith of others in Jesus, the Catholic Church has always baptized babies because of the faith the parents have in Christ. The LDS Church waits until a child is eight and can declare his/her own faith. There is nothing wrong with this....unless....parents are so uncertain of their own faith in Jesus that they feel it is best for any children to wait until they have some faith themselves.

I have been baptized by one with authority, unlike Catholics or Protestants. And, I was baptized because I have a testimony the Jesus Christ is Lord God, the Son of our Father. So, stop lying that we are baptized with faith in the Church. That is a complete lie. The fact is, it isn’t faith in the Church at all. It’s that we have the knowledge both through study, meditation and prayer to the Father in the name of the Son. We have a “testimony” that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Church with the true and fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That this Church is the only Church with the true Priesthood of the Lord. That Joseph Smith was the Prophet of God that took the world out of an apostasy and the Church built on the foundations of prophets and apostles. No faith, just testimonial knowledge. Got it! Stop lying about the Church.

If you really believed baptism is for the remission of sins, simple logic and knowledge would conclude that baptizing little children and babies is unnecessary and against the whole understanding of “faith.”

For proxy baptism for the dead spirits, we aren’t forcing anyone to accept it. It’s a matter of faith of those in the spirit world to accept. We are only doing their work because they cannot. And, we only do it for those who accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ who haven’t been baptized by authority. You again lie. Shame on you.

 

[GLASNOST]

I have been baptized by one with authority, .... because I have a testimony the Jesus Christ is Lord God, the Son of our Father.

And he, it, they all told you it's OK to kill people for "your country". So, if Mormons from some other country go to war with your country then they are the "good guys" if they can kill you before you can kill them. Got it.

 

[Cougarbear]

And he, it, they all told you it's OK to kill people for "your country". So, if Mormons from some other country go to war with your country then they are the "good guys" if they can kill you before you can kill them. Got it.

Strawman... Is the tin man around too?
I'm sure there were German soldiers who were members of the Church. Like some Jews, to stay alive, they had to join their army or die. Personally, I would rather die. But, like I said, Strawman and has nothing to do with my faith in Christ. What he will do when it's time for his 2nd coming is stop your terrorist Muslims and others from destroying and killing all the Jews in Israel. Then, the Muslim world will learn that Allah is not God and that Jesus is one of the Godhead, king of the world.

 

[GLASNOST]

Strawman... Is the tin man around too?

I don’t know what a strawman or a tin man means. Are you a tramtarian?

I'm sure there were German soldiers who were members of the Church.

No shit, Sherlock:

Like some Jews, to stay alive, they had to join their army or die.

Mormons in your country don’t have to join the army. So, you are lying.

Strawman and has nothing to do with my faith in Christ.

I still don’t know what strawman means. Are you a tramtarian?

What he will do when it's time for his 2nd coming

Whose 2nd coming? Who are you talking about? You can’t be talking about the Messiah because he only comes once but he hasn’t arrived yet. Obviously he hasn’t arrived yet. If you understood what his coming signifies you’d understand but you don’t believe in the Messiah or God. You are a cultist.

... stop your terrorist Muslims and others ...

My what? Who are you talking to?

... destroying and killing all the Jews in Israel.

Typical cultist fantasy.

Then, the Muslim world will learn that Allah is not God and that Jesus is one of the Godhead, king of the world.

How stupid! What are you, ten years old?

 

[Cougarbear]

I don’t know what a strawman or a tin man means. Are you a tramtarian?

No shit, Sherlock:
View attachment 1210261


Mormons in your country don’t have to join the army. So, you are lying.

I still don’t know what strawman means. Are you a tramtarian?

Whose 2nd coming? Who are you talking about? You can’t be talking about the Messiah because he only comes once but he hasn’t arrived yet. Obviously he hasn’t arrived yet. If you understood what his coming signifies you’d understand but you don’t believe in the Messiah or God. You are a cultist.

My what? Who are you talking to?

Typical cultist fantasy.

How stupid! What are you, ten years old?

You don’t know what a strawman argument is