Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?

[Eman623]

Why Latter-day Saints Practice Baptism for the Dead
I understand why baptism for the dead can sound strange at first. It often does when it is reduced to a phrase instead of explained in the light of Jesus Christ.
At its heart, baptism for the dead exists because the Atonement of Jesus Christ is infinite. It reaches across time, geography, culture, and even death itself. If Christ truly overcame sin and death for all mankind, then His saving power cannot be limited only to those fortunate enough to be born in the right place, at the right time, with the right access to the gospel.
This doctrine teaches that God is both perfectly just and perfectly merciful. He does not hold anyone accountable for opportunities they never had. Instead, through Jesus Christ, He ensures that every one of His children has a real, informed, and voluntary opportunity to accept or reject the gospel. Nothing is forced. Nothing is imposed. Agency remains intact on both sides of the veil.
Baptism performed on behalf of the dead does not save anyone automatically. It does not compel belief or guarantee salvation. It simply makes the saving power of Christ’s Atonement available to those who never had the chance to receive it in mortality. Each soul remains free to choose.
The Apostle Paul acknowledged this reality when he wrote:
“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”
(1 Corinthians 15:29)
Paul did not explain the practice, correct it, or condemn it. He referenced it as something understood among early Christians, using it to testify of the resurrection and Christ’s victory over death.
At its core, this doctrine declares something profoundly hopeful. No one is forgotten. No one is disqualified by birth, history, ignorance, or circumstance. Through Jesus Christ, God’s love reaches every soul who has ever lived.
Modern apostles have taught that this work is central to God’s purposes in the last days.
⸻
Russell M. Nelson
President Nelson has repeatedly taught that the gathering of Israel includes both the living and the dead, and that temple work is essential to that gathering:
“The gathering of Israel is the most important thing taking place on earth today. Nothing else compares in magnitude, nothing else compares in importance, nothing else compares in majesty.”
(“Hope of Israel,” Worldwide Youth Devotional, June 2018)
He also taught that this gathering includes God’s children on both sides of the veil and that the Lord is hastening this work in preparation for what lies ahead.
⸻
Dallin H. Oaks
President Oaks has taught that God’s plan of salvation reflects perfect justice and mercy, and that ordinances are required, but mercy ensures access for all:
“Because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, the plan of salvation includes a way for all who have ever lived to receive the ordinances necessary for exaltation.”
(“The Great Plan of Happiness,” October 1993 General Conference)
He has emphasized that God does not condemn His children for circumstances beyond their control, and that vicarious ordinances are an expression of divine fairness and love.
⸻
Jeffrey R. Holland
President Holland has borne witness that the Savior’s Atonement reaches every soul and every condition, including death itself:
“There is no pain, no anguish, no sorrow, no loneliness that Christ did not experience. There is no injustice He does not understand.”
(“None Were with Him,” April 2009 General Conference)
He has repeatedly testified that Christ descended below all things so that no one would be beyond His redeeming reach.
⸻
This is why Latter-day Saints build temples.
This is why we search records.
This is why we perform sacred ordinances on behalf of others.
Not because we believe we are rescuing the dead by our own righteousness, but because we believe Jesus Christ is rescuing His children, and He invites us to participate in that work.
Between now and the end of this earth as it now is, this is the work God has given His people to do. To gather. To bind. To offer. To witness. To love.
For many of us, baptism for the dead is not strange at all. It is one of the clearest witnesses of the power, fairness, and mercy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
No one is forgotten.
No one is beyond His reach.
And no one is denied a choice.

Your thoughts are welcomed!

So what, if you don't baptize some idiot from the 1700's he's fucked? That's a pretty stupid doctrine. If you don't mind me saying so.

My God doesn't care about such nonsense. He loves all his pets equally.

 

[GLASNOST]

Why can’t you get it through your thick head that those who are dead are NOT forced to accept baptism.

Let me ask you a serious question and I would like for you to give it some thought before you answer: Why can't you get it through your thick head that people who are dead are unable to consent to anything at all, let alone to being baptised?


During many of my near-death experiences I have asked them if they consented and they have all said they were forced.

This is why you have to effect on me.

Are you not grateful?

 

[GLASNOST]

... if you don't baptize some idiot from the 1700's he's fucked?

That's a pretty stupid doctrine. If you don't mind me saying so.

I don't mind.

My God doesn't care about such nonsense. He loves all his pets equally.

That's the sort of God I want!

 

[Meriweather]

those who are dead are NOT forced to accept baptism.

Which says how much value LDS assigns to proxy "baptisms". They don't care if proxy "baptism" is accepted or brushed aside as an annoyance--so not at all seen as a sacred or holy ordinance. It can be easily trashed and the LDS Church could not care less how it is treated.

 

[GLASNOST]

those who are dead are NOT forced to accept baptism.

Which says how much value LDS assigns to proxy "baptisms". They don't care if proxy "baptism" is accepted or brushed aside as an annoyance--so not at all seen as a sacred or holy ordinance. It can be easily trashed and the LDS Church could not care less how it is treated.

The whole thing sounds like a joke. Baptising dead people and claiming the dead are not "forced"!

 

[onefour1]

So what, if you don't baptize some idiot from the 1700's he's fucked? That's a pretty stupid doctrine. If you don't mind me saying so.

My God doesn't care about such nonsense. He loves all his pets equally.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Our God who consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost very much cares about receiving baptism as you can read in the verse above.

 

[GLASNOST]

John 3:5
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Eman 623:7
God doesn't care about nonsense. He loves mankind equally.

 

[Hafar1014]

Eman 623:7
God doesn't care about nonsense. He loves mankind equally.

If the Mormons are there I would rather be somewhere else

 

[onefour1]

In the Bible we read that upon Jesus' death and before his resurrection he went among the spirits of the dead preached his gospel.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Obviously if Jesus was preaching the gospel to the spirits of the dead, I think you can reasonably conclude that the spirits of the dead were alive and had the ability to listen and to have the free will to choose to believe Jesus' gospel or not.

Free will is a critical doctrine in the gospel of Jesus Christ. If God were to force anyone to accept the gospel then that being wouldn't really become of a good person in of his own free will and choice. God has instituted free will so that every being who hears his gospel can choose in and of themselves whether they believe it and and want to follow it. In this way those who freely choose the gospel become good beings in and of themselves by becoming a true believer. Force is of the devil and that was his plan before the foundation the earth. But God rejected Lucifer's plan of coercion so that man could progress to be good beings in and of themselves by freely choosing good over evil. For this reason, God does not force us to accept his gospel and his atoning sacrifice. He offers it to us but we all have the choice to accept or reject it of our own free will. Only in this way do we truly become good beings in and of ourselves. Part of the gospel of Jesus Christ is that those who wish to enter the kingdom of God must accept and receive baptism. It is not forced upon them but they always have the choice to accept or reject it. Like the atonement of Jesus Christ, baptism for the dead can be performed on behalf of an individual who has died, but ultimately they have the choice to either accept or reject it in the world of spirits and that is the nature of baptism for the dead. Just as Jesus performed his atoning sacrifice in behalf of all mankind, we all still have the opportunity to accept it or reject it. So it is with baptism for the dead. Just as we perform the baptisms in behalf of the dead, they still have the opportunity to accept or reject the baptism and are not forced into the kingdom of God.

I know you don't want to lose the argument and try to stick to your guns but the truth is that in all aspects of the gospel of Jesus Christ, we all have the choice to accept or reject it. Baptism for the dead is not forced upon anyone. However, it is a doctrine revealed by God that the living, if they seek to do what the Lord preaches, will perform these vicarious baptisms for their dead so that it is performed in their behalf and all the dead need to do is to accept it to enter the kingdom of God. But if they choose not to accept it, that is their choice.

 

[Eman623]

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Our God who consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost very much cares about receiving baptism as you can read in the verse above.

Good thing I'm not a Christian.

 

[onefour1]

Which says how much value LDS assigns to proxy "baptisms". They don't care if proxy "baptism" is accepted or brushed aside as an annoyance--so not at all seen as a sacred or holy ordinance. It can be easily trashed and the LDS Church could not care less how it is treated.

Why would we perform proxy baptism if we didn't care if our ancestors accepted or rejected it? When you preach the gospel to others who are not Christian, do you not care whether or not they accept or reject it? I suspect that you do care but you know that you can't force it down their throat. Not being able to force a person to accept does not equate to not caring whether they receive it or not. God cares and so he has instituted the practice. But does God force anyone to accept it? NO! God wants those who hear his gospel to accept it of their own free will and choice. It is the same for all who preach the gospel and for we who perform baptism for the dead. We hope in our hearts that they will accept it of their own free will but also respect that God has given them their own free will and that it is important that they, in and of themselves, accept it. We realize that if they do not accept the gospel which includes baptism, then they cannot enter the kingdom of God. So we hope that they will but we must respect God and the free will that he has given mankind to choose to do what is right in and of themselves. Only in this way does mankind truly become good beings in and of ourselves by choosing in and of themselves to follow His gospel and be baptized. Your argument has no weight. You could argue with Jesus that his atonement is not sacred and holy since all of mankind can trash it and not accept it. Free will is a critical part of the plan of salvation. Mankind must learn to choose to accept good over evil of his own free will and choice.

 

[GLASNOST]

In the Bible we read that upon Jesus' death and before his resurrection he went among the spirits of the dead preached his gospel.

That's not what Kurt Vonnegut wrote.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily ....

... life is but a dream.

 

[GLASNOST]

When you preach the gospel to others who are not Christian, do you not care whether or not they accept or reject it?

OK, but why do you get angry with them if they don't accept it?

 

[Cougarbear]

So what, if you don't baptize some idiot from the 1700's he's fucked? That's a pretty stupid doctrine. If you don't mind me saying so.

My God doesn't care about such nonsense. He loves all his pets equally.

Your God doesn't exist then. God cannot lie. When he says word for word that the only way to enter into the kingdom of God is by being baptized by water and the spirit, then if he lets it slide, he lied and is not God. The level of glorification in the resurrection is by our faith. And, as James stated, faith without works is dead. So, that's why we have commandments. laws, ordinances and order. By our works we show our faith as James states. Paul and the rest do. Back to baptism, these ordinances are earthly ordinances and can only be done here on earth with live human beings. The spirits of the dead reside in one of two places in spirit prison, paradise and hell. Those who still need proper baptisms of water and the spirit can't do it for themselves. So, an ordinance for baptism for the dead was instituted in the early Church through the Apostles to the various churches at the time. Corinthians for one of them and Paul mentions this required ordinance. And no, baptisms performed from non-authority ordained persons doesn't count. We have that proper authority priesthood. And eventually, everyone who ever lived on the earth will have this ordinance done for them. Just like the atonement Jesus Christ performed was for everyone whether or not they agreed to it.

 

[onefour1]

OK, but why do you get angry with them if they don't accept it?

I don't get angry because they don't accept it. Who told you that? I do however argue with those who try to paint our religion in a way that is false.

 

[Cougarbear]

Let me ask you a serious question and I would like for you to give it some thought before you answer: Why can't you get it through your thick head that people who are dead are unable to consent to anything at all, let alone to being baptised?


During many of my near-death experiences I have asked them if they consented and they have all said they were forced.

Are you not grateful?

Guess what? Did you consent to Jesus atoning for your sins? No! Only a small number of people did when he went through that ordination process. Consent isn't always needed, is it? The fact you are on this planet that the Lord provided for you and you agreed to the possible conditions you would entail here in your pre-earth life, you already consented. Let's try a secular approach to this too. We all vote for our elected leaders who write laws that everyone has to follow. Now, if the party in power wrote a law that you do not agree with, that you don't give your consent for, must you still obey that law? Say the law was you have to drive 50 miles per hour on a particular road. You drive 70 because you don't agree that the speed should be limited to 50. Your excuse is going to be you didn't consent to 50 miles per hour??? The judge will laugh you right out of the court house.

So, I'm very grateful for the Lord to have provided a way for my family who has preceded me without the necessary ordinances to obtain the highest degree of glory in the kingdom of God. And, the method to take care of them. If they accept, great! If not, that will be their choice! Choices don't go away upon death. Free moral agency doesn't disappear either after death. Choices and decisions continue, so make it the right ones!

 

[GLASNOST]

My God doesn't care about such nonsense. He loves all his pets equally..

Your God doesn't exist then. .

Oh-oh! You shot yourself in the foot now.

 

[GLASNOST]

When you preach the gospel to others who are not Christian, do you not care whether or not they accept or reject it?.

OK, but why do you get angry with them if they don't accept it?

I don't get angry .

That's a lie. Last year a Mormon couple (man and wife) tried to feed me a load of crapola. I listened quietly until it got to be too outrageous so I told them it was too crazy. The women froze but her husband got really angry.

 

[Cougarbear]

Which says how much value LDS assigns to proxy "baptisms". They don't care if proxy "baptism" is accepted or brushed aside as an annoyance--so not at all seen as a sacred or holy ordinance. It can be easily trashed and the LDS Church could not care less how it is treated.

You again mischaracterize "care" as a reason to do proxy baptisms or not. Jesus also didn't care whether you or anyone accepts his atonement of their sins. This care is simple. He performed the ordinance of atonement for all who would accept His atonement through faith in him. This includes all those who never knew of him or even today know or accept him and his atonement. Because he knew that eventually everyone who ever lives on the earth would have the opportunity to be taught His Gospel (1Peter chapters 3 and 4) that he would leave it up to each individual whether living or dead to decide whether or not to accept His gift. Same with baptism for the dead. Jesus didn't institute it with the idea consent is needed to perform the ordinance. The consent would manifest itself when the spirit or person is given the opportunity to accept it. So, LDS care very much that everyone have that opportunity for consent to accept or reject our works on their behalf. Whether they accept it or not is up to them. The work has been done. It's you that refuses the ordinances of baptism for them to have that choice.

 

[onefour1]

That's a lie. Last year a Mormon couple (man and wife) tried to feed me a load of crapola. I listened quietly until it got to be too outrageous so I told them it was too crazy. The women froze but her husband got really angry.

When I say that I don't get angry when a person rejects the gospel, I am speaking of myself and not for every other person in the church.

OK, but why do YOU get angry with them if they don't accept it?