Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?

[ding]

Nope…after doing our genealogy we can take names of people to the temple or submit for others to do the work. Over the years, I’ve done the work for those I don’t know and families I don’t know from all over the world.
This is typical that people are misinformed about most of our beliefs. If you got your information from qualified members you would have a completely different opinion about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This was from 2012. Has the policy changed?

"Word of the new measures and blocked accounts comes on the heels of a statement from top church officials that was read to congregations across the globe last weekend clarifying what is and isn't acceptable when it comes to proxy baptisms.

The statement said Mormons' "pre-eminent obligation is to seek out and identify our own ancestors."

"Without exception, church members must not submit for proxy temple ordinances [rituals] any names from unauthorized groups, such as celebrities and Jewish Holocaust victims," the statement read. It warned that members who violate the rules could lose access to the system and added, "other corrective action may also be taken."

Mormons crack down on proxy baptisms; whistleblower's access blocked

By Jessica Ravitz In response to recent media reports that well-known J

www.12newsnow.com

 

[Cougarbear]

No, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) (Mormons) are not planning to proxy baptize everyone; their focus is on proxy baptisms for their own deceased ancestors, not the general public, and it's presented as an offering for the dead to accept or reject, not a forced conversion. While members are encouraged to find and perform these ordinances for their family members, they must only submit names of deceased relatives, with strict rules against proxy baptizing celebrities or Holocaust victims.
Key Aspects of LDS Proxy Baptism:

• Focus on Ancestors: The primary goal is to provide a chance for direct ancestors (parents, grandparents, etc.) to accept baptism after death, fostering family unity in the afterlife.
• Voluntary Acceptance: It's a free-will offering; the deceased person in the spirit world has the agency to accept or reject the ordinance, meaning it doesn't change their religion or heritage without their consent.
• Not for Everyone: Rules prohibit submitting names of non-relatives, celebrities, or Holocaust victims, emphasizing it's for personal family history.
• Scriptural Basis: The practice is linked to scriptures like 1 Corinthians 15:29, interpreted as a restoration of early Christian practice, according to the Church's beliefs.
• Required for Exaltation (LDS View): Within LDS theology, baptism (including proxy baptism for the deceased) is considered necessary for exaltation in God's kingdom, but they believe God doesn't condemn those who never had the chance in life.

In essence, it's a genealogical and spiritual practice aimed at extending opportunities to deceased family members, with strict guidelines on who can be submitted.

Why are you telling me, a 40 year temple recommend holder, what we are doing? I told you the we do genealogy, which is finding names and information about our family that has died. Then, we either take those names to the temple ourselves and do the work like baptisms. Or we submit them for others to do their work. I’ve done work for the dead who lived in Mexico, England, and all over the world who I’m not related to because live. Family members could not get it done fast enough. People who lived centuries ago.
Yes, the focus is to get at least 4 generations of genealogy done and go to the temple and do the work. Of course that’s a focus. But I did mine 4 decades ago. Now, I help others get their families work done. Stop with your AI and pay attention. Now, go back and re-read my first post and you will see my answer is what you got and what I again told you. Good grief. We will eventually get everyone back to Adam and Eve done. Which we have already done.

 

[Cougarbear]

This was from 2012. Has the policy changed?

Mormons crack down on proxy baptisms; whistleblower's access blocked

By Jessica Ravitz In response to recent media reports that well-known J

www.12newsnow.com

Strawman arguments.

You wanted to know if we were planning to baptize everyone who has died. What you strawman argued is genealogy and submission for proxy baptism and other works necessary. Two separate issues.

1. We plan to baptize everyone. Most people who have died will not be baptized before the Millennium. Physically impossible. Most will happen during the Millennium. Got it!

2. Genealogy and submission for their ancestral lines will keep everyone busy until the Millennium. And, there are laws in some countries that prohibit certain lines like Jewish Holocaust survivors from being proxy baptized. I was born Jewish. I’ve baptized or had someone baptized who are dead and Holocaust survivors because they are my family and direct to me. The law allows this. However, I can also direct the Church to have someone else baptize them.

Two separate issues. In fact, my orthodox Jewish cousin has done a lot of genealogy on our lines too. He is well aware of this and even knows I’ve done some baptisms. He asked me about it and I said if what we do is necessary and directed by Jehovah, then you would want me to do the work. If Jehovah didn’t, then the baptisms and other works would have absolutely no affect whatsoever on the spirits of the dead. So why get upset about it. He agreed. Any rational person would agree. If you are upset, you then agree the work affects the dead spirits.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Baptism is something people do when they willingly and knowingly come to a belief in Jesus Christ. It's an action taken by the individual as they make a conscious decision to do so. It's not a decision made by third parties.

I live in Mormon country. They reject the Holy Bible (for the most part) and believe that it has been "misinterpreted." The majority of their religion is based on the fantasies of a single man.

 

[ding]

Why are you telling me, a 40 year temple recommend holder, what we are doing?

Because you didn't know proxy baptisms are limited to relatives of LDS members.

 

[Meriweather]

Because you didn't know proxy baptisms are limited to relatives of LDS members.

They get around it. My grandmother was vehemently against it...but guess what, a year after she died, there she was on the LDS roster. She shared a great-great grandparent with an LDS someone. These people don't go back in time, they go forward as well, tracing all descendants of their own ancestors. My mom was against this practice, too, and not well at the time. I did all I could to hide her mom's "baptism" from her, knowing she could not handle it. I explained to an LDS friend how this was not right, and how it upset people of other denominations. Her response? Neener, neener, we're going to do it anyway. Even to you! And no one can stop us.

Isn't it wonderful how they honor God's gift of free will to all of us. They put their words into our mouths at a time we cannot speak for ourselves. It's disgusting. Why don't they just grab us off the street while we are alive and do it when we can fight back? Cowards.

 

[ding]

They get around it.

Obviously.

 

[Cougarbear]

Because you didn't know proxy baptisms are limited to relatives of LDS members.

They are not! I’ve been doing proxy baptisms, washing and anointings, endowments and sealings for 40 years. Stop telling me what we do. They are not and never have been limited. There are specific groups like Holocaust families where there are restrictions. But for most in the world there are no restrictions. Your AI report even stated this. What the Church teaches is for us to do our genealogy and if possible, do the work for our direct ancestors. Make it a family opportunity. But there are those who do genealogy who are not able to do the work themselves and those names are assigned to temples all over the world. I’ve had family members done from temples in the orient. Again, I’m a High Priest in the Melchizedek Priesthood of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I’ve been over the genealogy work in my Wards. Stop telling me what we do.

 

[Cougarbear]

Baptism is something people do when they willingly and knowingly come to a belief in Jesus Christ. It's an action taken by the individual as they make a conscious decision to do so. It's not a decision made by third parties.

I live in Mormon country. They reject the Holy Bible (for the most part) and believe that it has been "misinterpreted." The majority of their religion is based on the fantasies of a single man.

Oh stop! You reject the Bible. The early saints practiced baptisms first the dead. It’s in the bible. 1Corinthians 15:29. Preaching to the spirits of the dead is in First Peter chapters 3 and 4. Guess what! When those spirits accept the Gospel they want to be baptized. But all ordinances must be performed on earth with living beings. The ordinances for the dead were established by Jesus Christ and the apostles taught this. The people did this if they believed that The dead could rise again resurrected. Now, stop lying. Lying is a sin and is in the Bible.

 

[onefour1]

Baptism is something people do when they willingly and knowingly come to a belief in Jesus Christ. It's an action taken by the individual as they make a conscious decision to do so. It's not a decision made by third parties.

I live in Mormon country. They reject the Holy Bible (for the most part) and believe that it has been "misinterpreted." The majority of their religion is based on the fantasies of a single man.

Yes, in this life people must of their own free will come to accept Jesus and be baptized. However, once they are dead, even if they accept Jesus, as a spirit they cannot be baptized in the realm of the dead. Yet baptism is a requirement for entrance into the kingdom of God.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thus it was set up in ancient times to perform baptism by proxy for the dead. Does this mean that the baptism is forced upon the dead without their consent? NO!! The dead are preached to in the realm of the dead and have the choice to accept the gospel or not. Baptisms for the dead are of no affect if the person they are performed for rejects the baptism.

The Bible is not rejected by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is part of our canon of scripture. Here is a photo of our quadruple combination of scriptures. As you can see we regard the Bible as the word of God.

 

[onefour1]

They get around it. My grandmother was vehemently against it...but guess what, a year after she died, there she was on the LDS roster. She shared a great-great grandparent with an LDS someone. These people don't go back in time, they go forward as well, tracing all descendants of their own ancestors. My mom was against this practice, too, and not well at the time. I did all I could to hide her mom's "baptism" from her, knowing she could not handle it. I explained to an LDS friend how this was not right, and how it upset people of other denominations. Her response? Neener, neener, we're going to do it anyway. Even to you! And no one can stop us.

Isn't it wonderful how they honor God's gift of free will to all of us. They put their words into our mouths at a time we cannot speak for ourselves. It's disgusting. Why don't they just grab us off the street while we are alive and do it when we can fight back? Cowards.

As mentioned in my previous post, a person who is dead is not forced to receive the baptism for the dead performed for them. They must accept this baptism in the realm of the spirits of the dead before it is of any affect. So basically, I really don't understand why people get their panties in a wad when they hear of us performing baptisms for the dead. The individual person still has the ability to accept or reject it and if rejected it becomes of no affect upon that person. So why they pretend that we are forcing their ancestors into our church or doing something beyond their will is absurd. If they don't believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ, then they should really just write it off as a false practice that has no effect upon a person who is dead.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Yes, in this life people must of their own free will come to accept Jesus and be baptized. However, once they are dead, even if they accept Jesus, as a spirit they cannot be baptized in the realm of the dead. Yet baptism is a requirement for entrance into the kingdom of God.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thus it was set up in ancient times to perform baptism by proxy for the dead. Does this mean that the baptism is forced upon the dead without their consent? NO!! The dead are preached to in the realm of the dead and have the choice to accept the gospel or not. Baptisms for the dead are of no affect if the person they are performed for rejects the baptism.

The Bible is not rejected by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is part of our canon of scripture. Here is a photo of our quadruple combination of scriptures. As you can see we regard the Bible as the word of God.

I disagree that physical, water baptism is necessary for entrance into the Kingdom. A soldier who has no family may accept Christ during battle then die in battle. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is greater than water baptism.

Remember, too, that one of the thieves who was crucified along with Jesus accepted Him while on the cross. Christ told him that he would be with Him in paradise.

Luke 23:43, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

This man was admitted into paradise without a water baptism.

 

[onefour1]

I disagree that physical, water baptism is necessary for entrance into the Kingdom. A soldier who has no family may accept Christ during battle then die in battle. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is greater than water baptism.

Remember, too, that one of the thieves who was crucified along with Jesus accepted Him while on the cross. Christ told him that he would be with Him in paradise.

Luke 23:43, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

This man was admitted into paradise without a water baptism.

When Jesus died, he went and preached to the spirit who were dead for three days. Jesus was resurrected on the 3rd day and told Mary the following:


John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So basically Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after he spent the time between his death and resurrection in the world of spirits preaching the gospel. So the thief was not with Jesus in heaven but among those in the world of spirit who have accepted Jesus and his gospel. That is where paradise is. On that day Jesus had not yet ascend to heaven. The thief would still need to accept water baptism in the world of spirits before he could gain entrance into the kingdom of God. Read what Jesus said in the BIBLE again:

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Do you not believe the Bible?

 

[Meriweather]

As mentioned in my previous post, a person who is dead is not forced to receive the baptism for the dead performed for them. They must accept this baptism in the realm of the spirits of the dead before it is of any affect. So basically, I really don't understand why people get their panties in a wad when they hear of us performing baptisms for the dead. The individual person still has the ability to accept or reject it and if rejected it becomes of no affect upon that person. So why they pretend that we are forcing their ancestors into our church or doing something beyond their will is absurd. If they don't believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ, then they should really just write it off as a false practice that has no effect upon a person who is dead.

I don't want anyone in this existence speaking for me. It won't touch me on your planet, in your spirit world.

I am not even allowed in the place (and don't want to be) you will be speaking for me, that "sacred baptismal font inside one of your temples". It's disgusting. Again, why not grab me while I am alive, drag me into your temple and the sacred baptismal font, so when someone has the effrontery to speak for me, I can speak for myself and everyone can clearly hear me say, NO! that I believe in one baptism, and it is not yours.

 

[SaxonJackson]

When Jesus died, he went and preached to the spirit who were dead for three days. Jesus was resurrected on the 3rd day and told Mary the following:


John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So basically Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after he spent the time between his death and resurrection in the world of spirits preaching the gospel. So the thief was not with Jesus in heaven but among those in the world of spirit who have accepted Jesus and his gospel. That is where paradise is. On that day Jesus had not yet ascend to heaven. The thief would still need to accept water baptism in the world of spirits before he could gain entrance into the kingdom of God. Read what Jesus said in the BIBLE again:

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Do you not believe the Bible?

2 Corinthians 12:1-4, "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Jesus Christ is "the Tree of Life."

Revelation 2:7, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

Paradise is more than just "the grave" or "purgatory." According to the Bible, "the tree of life is in paradise" and the Bible calls it "the third heaven."

Don't you believe the Bible?

 

[ding]

They are not! I’ve been doing proxy baptisms, washing and anointings, endowments and sealings for 40 years. Stop telling me what we do.

You told me what your church is doing and planning to do and they were caught performing proxy baptisms on non-relatives in 2012.

Someone estimated that there has been 100 billion people born on the earth. Keep in mind, those who die before the age of accountability (8 years old) and those who are mentally unable to be held accountable (like mentally retarded or other physical challenges) do not require baptism since they have not sinned.

If your question is how could it be possible to baptize everyone who has died or will die? Every person born on this earth is known to the Godhead. That includes their DNA and whatever else is required to make sure the work eventually gets done for them that need baptism by water and the spirit. Also, for the grace of their resurrection too. We do what we can in this life to help those who have gone before us as they await their blessings in paradise. The bulk of the work will be done during the 1,000 year millennium when thousands of temples will be built all around the earth.

 

[onefour1]

I don't want anyone in this existence speaking for me. It won't touch me on your planet, in your spirit world.

I am not even allowed in the place (and don't want to be) you will be speaking for me, that "sacred baptismal font inside one of your temples". It's disgusting. Again, why not grab me while I am alive, drag me into your temple and the sacred baptismal font, so when someone has the effrontery to speak for me, I can speak for myself and everyone can clearly hear me say, NO! that I believe in one baptism, and it is not yours.

And that is your right to feel how you wish. We do not force baptism upon anyone. For those living, they must accept baptism while they are alive and there is no proxy baptism for the living. For those who are dead, they too have the choice to accept or reject baptisms performed in their behalf. If they choose to reject it, then the baptism is of no affect upon them and they are without baptism still. So if you don't believe in it, then it will have no affect upon you and if your ancestors don't believe it, it will have no affect upon them either. Only to those who accept it, whether living or dead, does it have any affect upon them. So why get all worked up about something that you don't even believe is a true doctrine of Jesus Christ? Are you saying that you believe it does have an effect upon you or your ancestors? You seem to be under the delusion of the first Catholics who wanted to force all to believe the way they believed. Free will is the true doctrine of Christ and we all have freedom to personally accept or reject baptism. Yes, we perform it for the dead because they are not capable but they still have the choice to accept it or reject it in the world of spirits and have their free will. It is not forced upon them and has no affect if they reject it.

 

[Meriweather]

We do not force baptism upon anyone.

Give it up, it is a despicable practice . That is all I am going to say. (I didn't read any further.)

 

[onefour1]

2 Corinthians 12:1-4, "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Jesus Christ is "the Tree of Life."

Revelation 2:7, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

Paradise is more than just "the grave" or "purgatory." According to the Bible, "the tree of life is in paradise" and the Bible calls it "the third heaven."

Don't you believe the Bible?

Paradise is also a condition of happiness and peace. It's not just a place. Heaven is a place having a condition of paradise but so was the earth in the days of Adam and Eve before the fall and again it will be a paradise during the millennium of Christ's reign upon the earth.

The thief was specifically promised:


Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

But Jesus did not ascend into heaven on that day and he told Mary on the 3rd day that he had not yet ascended to his Father in Heaven. So obviously the paradise that the thief experienced was not in heaven but was with Jesus as he preached the gospel to the dead in the world of spirits.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Paul in his teachings of the resurrection uses the ordinance of baptism for the dead to bolster his argument for the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

 

[onefour1]

Give it up, it is a despicable practice . That is all I am going to say. (I didn't read any further.)

I'll never give it up. It is a holy practice instituted by God. For this reason Elijah the prophet appeared to the prophet Joseph Smith to restore this lost practice and to turn the hearts of children to their fathers:

Malachi 4:5-6
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.