Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?

[Meriweather]

I do not consider Jesus coo-coo because he did not preach to the dead after his own death. That is pure superstition.

Christians believe that Jesus did descend to (living spirits of) the dead as stated by Peter, a key witness of Jesus after the resurrection. Paul, while not a first hand witness, was a second hand witness to this fact. He most likely (as he knew Peter) heard this from him.

So, no, not superstition, but belief in the testimony of a first hand witness or the resurrected Jesus.

 

[Cougarbear]

In the Catholic faith, apostasy is someone, who is a baptized Catholic, repudiating the Catholic faith totally and voluntarily. Those of other faiths are not in apostasy. It is not a label for for other faiths or even other denominations. For example, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, defines her relationship with Jews:

839

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

And with Muslims:

841

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Well, for how many centuries did the Catholic Church condemn Jews for killing Jesus Christ? And, Muslims believe in the same Christ? Nope. Christ is merely a prophet.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, for how many centuries did the Catholic Church condemn Jews for killing Jesus Christ? And, Muslims believe in the same Christ? Nope. Christ is merely a prophet.

Book of Mormon: 2 Nephi 10:3 and 10:5. Also, a Mormon ancestor of my brother-in-law taught Jews were cursed and scattered.
In 1965 the Catholic Church formally repudiated this stance against the Jews. The Catholic Church, for many decades, has taught that collectively, all of sinful mankind, brought about the death of Jesus. And Jesus overcame death.

The LDS Church has not formally repudiated its own former stance, but no longer teaches it.

 

[Cougarbear]

Book of Mormon: 2 Nephi 10:3 and 10:5. Also, a Mormon ancestor of my brother-in-law taught Jews were cursed and scattered.
In 1965 the Catholic Church formally repudiated this stance against the Jews. The Catholic Church, for many decades, has taught that collectively, all of sinful mankind, brought about the death of Jesus. And Jesus overcame death.

The LDS Church has not formally repudiated its own former stance, but no longer teaches it.

What are you mumbling about now? Yes, we still teach that NORTHERN ISRAEL fell because they forgot God in their Pride. It's in the Bible! According to the biblical narrative in 2 Kings 17:7–18, the scattering was a divine judgment for the people's "wickedness," specifically their persistent idolatry, rejection of God's covenant, and worship of foreign gods like Baal. Religious texts state that despite repeated warnings from prophets, the tribes refused to repent, leading to the withdrawal of divine protection and their subsequent exile. I don't know why you used the word "cursed." Now, the Babylonian takeover was the captivation of the Jews (Judah). They were carried away for the same basic reason Israel was in 722 BC.

As far as what the Catholic Church did to the Jews over 1,600 years was abominable. I'm glad they stopped with their rites that condemned the death of Jesus to the Jews of today. Yes, the Jews in 33 AD did rebel against God and voted to put Jesus to death. But, that should not condemn a whole nation forever. The Temple was rent and they were eventually kicked out of Israel until the last days, which are our days from 1820 to the present when the Godhead opened back up the Heavens and called a new latter day prophet, Joseph Smith. The land of Israel was dedicated by the Priesthood 3 times and each time more and more Jews came to live. The last one after WW2.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes

That's all that matters.

 

[Cougarbear]

That's all that matters.

You don’t care about the truth. Admit your brother-in-law’s LDS ancestor was correct. And that you were wrong about that we don’t teach that today. We do because it’s in the Bible.

 

[GLASNOST]

... Anyone who has to make a place for themselves by declaring others apostates.

As Catholocism?

In the Catholic faith, apostasy is someone, who is a baptized Catholic, repudiating the Catholic faith totally and voluntarily. Those of other faiths are not in apostasy. It is not a label for for other faiths or even other denominations.

I meant only that Catholics see themselves as the only ones who have a crack at going to heaven. As far as being apostates I guess I didn't use it correctly.

 

[GLASNOST]

Paul ..... was a second hand witness .

That seems to be correct.

 

[Meriweather]

I meant only that Catholics see themselves as the only ones who have a crack at going to heaven.

That's not correct.

 

[Meriweather]

You don’t care about the truth.

Grin. Again with your own assumptions. I can't help but laughing. You haven't a clue about me, which has me wondering whether you have a clue about much. Please, go in peace....

 

[GLASNOST]

I meant only that Catholics see themselves as the only ones who have a crack at going to heaven..

That's not correct.

I think it is correct.

 

[Meriweather]

I think it is correct.

Why do you personally think Catholics are the only ones who have a crack at going to heaven when it is not a Catholic teaching?

 

[GLASNOST]

Why do you personally think Catholics are the only ones who have a crack at going to heaven when it is not a Catholic teaching?

You misunderstand me. I do not think Catholics are the only ones who can go to heaven but I believe the Catholics think Christians are the only ones who can go to heaven.

 

[Cougarbear]

Grin. Again with your own assumptions. I can't help but laughing. You haven't a clue about me, which has me wondering whether you have a clue about much. Please, go in peace....

I have given actual facts and you still don’t accept them. I get it. You’re Catholic trying to defend things you can’t and trying to condemn the work for the dead even with all the evidence and scripture on our side. Ding too.

 

[GLASNOST]

I have given actual facts and you still don’t accept them.

Facts? Which are those? Are you talking about the fact that the Mormons make claims? OK. Fine. No problem. But if you are talking about what God said or what Jesus said then you haven't got a leg to stand on and not a single fact to be seen.

 

[Meriweather]

You misunderstand me. I do not think Catholics are the only ones who can go to heaven but I believe the Catholics think Christians are the only ones who can go to heaven.

I am a Catholic from a large Catholic family, community. We don't think that. Nor does the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Now, some other Christian denominations may believe only Christians go to heaven--usually those who also think no Catholic will ever be there.

 

[Meriweather]

I get it.

Sadly, you don't. Cheers.

 

[GLASNOST]

I am a Catholic ..... We don't think that. Nor does the Catechism of the Catholic Church. .

I disagree with you for very good reasons but this is not the place for such a discussion. Let us stay focused on the Cult of Mormonism.

 

[Meriweather]

Let us stay focused on the Cult of Mormonism.

I will leave you to that! I was 14 when I picked up The Book of Mormon lying on a library table. I've always been interested in any account of God, and the first thing I read was to pray over whether this was for me. Then I skipped ahead to the first actual chapter. I was disappointed. It sounded like it had been written by a 14-year-old boy. In later years, I heard that it had been! But, the book said I should pray about this, and in favor of prayer, I did just that. The answer was clear. This is not for you. I have always focused on that final word, 'you'. My prayer was not answered with the word, "anyone". it specified me.

I had/have faith that the Holy Spirit of God can work through anyone. I believe God can even work through a con man, also a pedophile. But it wasn't for me. As an adult, I heard people speak of them with disdain, as a joke--patronizing. Through my grandparents, I had been deep into genealogy since I was ten. I was particularly interested in their stories. I have Quaker ancestors who have a different view of the Sacrament of Baptism than I. I respected their outlook, and as a child was amazed and disturbed that someone had had them baptized after their death! Such disrespect!!! Treasuring my own baptism, I considered this proxy "baptism" a blasphemy against the power of the Holy Spirit in my ancestor's view of what baptism is/means.

As you aptly put it, I saw those proxy "baptisms" as reducing Baptism to an admission ticket to the LDS vision of an afterlife instead of a sign and purpose of learning to live Kingdom Living, walking with God, in this fallen world. For LDS to dismiss The Way of Kingdom Living which starts Eternal Life right here in favor of putting their words into my mouth at a time I cannot speak directly to them is not only wrong, but vilely wrong. LDS should listen to how Quakers view baptism. They should listen to how I, a Catholic, view baptism. LDS may see baptism as some kind of an admission ticket, but many-many of us do not.

I will not be able to speak then. Therefore I speak to them now. Will they listen? (Not so far, and I've been at this for years.)

 

[ding]

Then maybe you should contact the Pope and let him know that we will progress to be join heirs as gods as the Bible states in Genesis and all the early fathers of your Church. Funny how you damn the very beginnings of your Church by calling them liars.

He already knows better.