CDZ Why do Conservatives believe that America is no longer great?

[Disgruntled_American]

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

So as I have been saying all along there really is no difference between the parties

And in that I agree with you fully. The only difference is what they spend the money on. They both constantly increase the spending though.

The result is the same more debt and more government

Correct, which is why I find it amusing (and sad) the majority of the country is more concerned with the presidency when it is congress that is screwing us behind the curtain.

 

[rightwinger]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

Were we "Great" when Republicans advocated torture?

Or when a Republican candidate who wants to "Make America Great Again" advocates more severe means of torture?



.

 

[baileyn45]

How about when we stopped being able to pay the bills without other countries sending us money? Or maybe when it became impossible to start a business without 3 lawyers and 4 ex-govt officials? Maybe when some genius decided it was a schools job to teaching morality and ethics instead of critical thinking? I could go on.

Please do- when exactly did the scales tip so you now no longer think of the United States as a great country?

I don't know if I would specifically put a date on it. Just a continual slide to mediocrity and below. I mean look at where we stand educationally. The population in this country seems to have lost it's drive or something. I notice it glaringly in hiring. Five years ago I would have told you that I couldn't remember even considering hiring some one under 25. Now it would be 30. They seem bothered to have to be there(in an interview), have no interest in anything I say or the job, can barely read, consider math a foreign language, are dressed like a bums, are disrespectful and rude. There just seems to be a different attitude and not for the better. The response to every problem is "what is the govt going to about it".

Howard Cunningham had the same problem in an episode of Happy Days. Amazingly we had to wait 28 years later until a black guy was hired to be President to pronounce the nation isn't "great" any longer.

The theme song to All in the Family bemoaned the same silly stance come to think of it.

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To view the problem critically (I am a proud liberal so the question in the OP wasn't addressed to me), one has to assume that we were "great" at one time. By some metrics we were, by some we were not. Personally, I have always thought we were a great place to live, work, raise a family, etc... Personally, outside of Italy; there is no other nation on earth I would want to visit...that should tell you something about how great I think America is. Give me Mt. Zion National Park over the Castles of Europe; a tour of Bryce Canyon over a tour of the Great Wall of China; a trip to Key West over a trip to London any day.

At any rate, if you believe we are "no longer great" or have to be "made great again", it means you thought we were great once and no longer are. Some metrics support that theory; most do not. So I don't buy it.

One thing I will say in the defense of those who no longer believe that the nation is great is that America did become complacent as a nation after WWII. And why wouldn't we. We defeated two imperial powers with minimal material support from our allies; our economy was booming, there were no serious threats on the world stage and the expectation was that every nation on earth would want to be like us since we were prosperous, peaceful, benevolent, and had destiny at our mercy. That worked for about 15 years. The 1960's saw the rise of enemies like Russia; the other "metrics" that measured America differently began to speak up against institutionalized discrimination, a proxy war in Vietnam saw us losing. Then the political scandals of the early 1970's hit. In the 1980's we moved from the years of pain to the years of gain with Reagan and spent the Soviets into submission. Someone forgot to tell the Congress that the plan was to spend a lot for a while, then strip away the spending after word because every President after Reagan saw what he did and mirrored it...and hoped to mirror his 70+% approval rating in retirement.

What was happening during the 70's and 80's though was larger than our turmoil domestically or the international issues. We learned (or did we?) that not every nation wants to be like us. What took us 175 years to learn (1776-1950) was that America is a very complicated place. We know this and we accept this. Most people who live in large cities are used to having radio stations that do not broadcast in English on their dial; television stations that are in a foreign language, and having to repeat orders slowly for the guy at In and Out burger who just doesn't understand English as well. We don't worry about it; we put up with it, and it's second nature. We are all capitalists to where we sell our labor for the most advantageous ends but beyond that, little social knitting keeps us together. This evening, I will likely have Mexican food for dinner. I would imagine that some Mexican Americans are having pizza. And some Italian Americans will enjoy hot dogs or Hamburger Helper. We have a commonality of a goal and that is pretty much it; socially, we stick to whatever satisfies us.

If you are John Q. Chancellor from Nation X, would you rather have one pretty much homogeneous group of people who pretty much think like you in the main and disagree around the edges or would you rather have opposition that uses a different language, different symbols, and is determined to get their piece of the power? I'd opt for the former. I think most of the supporters of Mr. Trump would too. The Leave it to Beaver 1950's.

Those days are gone and they are not coming back (if they were ever here to begin with). We're still a great nation; just a different type of greatness.

You'll note I don't place this countries ills on the current adm. The issues I see facing this country have been accumulating almost since Mr Cunningham was on TV.

For me the question isn't the "great" or "not great" debate, it's where we are and where were heading. Howard Cunningham wasn't looking at $20tr in debt, the fed hadn't just quadrupled the money supply, there wasn't record or near record debt at the consumer, corporate and student level, our infrastructure wasn't crumbling, our education system wasn't a mess, a college student wasn't coming out of school $60k in debt, we had the strongest manufacturing base in the world, we weren't facing the largest bond bubble in history, the stock market wasn't being propped up by 0% interest money from the fed, people could actually afford to go to the doctor, we weren't looking around the world at recession, currency devaluations, commodity prices collapsing, negative interest rates, international trade at a stand still, we're standing at the precipice of a demographic tidal wave that would strain our entitlement system in good times. Sadly again, I could go on.

When it comes to a black president, I see the exact opposite of what you probably do. The left in this country is so desperate for this adm to be seen as the greatest ever, that they're willing to pretend everything is just peachy. This country is facing problems at a level we've never come close to before. Think of what caused the last mess, banks over leveraged with derivatives, stock swaps and all kinds of nonsense. Has any of that been corrected? The answer is no, those problems are worse now than they were in 2007. By many accounts, much worse.

You know I've always had great faith in the American people but even that is waning. We have so many people who are now tied to entitlements or have just given up participating in the job market that I just don't see the same spirit I used to. This country always had a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" attitude, now it's "what's the govt going to do about it". And I see that attitude more in the young than anyone. Not good.

I may currently come across as a doom and gloom kind of person. I'm not. I'm a small business guy, being pragmatic and forward looking is the only way I've survived. Looking forward now all I'm seeing is a cliff.
Meanwhile I'm supposed to decide whether to put my faith in Hillary, Trump, Sanders, etc. Good grief.

Democrats or republicans at this point it doesn't matter, neither of them have any answers, they're both tied to big money and telling people what they want to hear.

Many of us have been saying it for the last 20 years, this can't end well.

I will say that there has been 1 thing in common that has torn America down and put it in the toilet. It really started with George H.W. Bush 41, then Clinton, then 42, now Obama, all of them (r)s and (d)s is liberalism. They have spent money like they were drunken sailors, taking a billion dollar deficit and making it trillion dollar deficits. All in the name of liberal compassion. But with liberalism it is all about equality, everyone will be equal, equally poor and equally miserable, but those liberal elites will have all the money(remember liberals can be R's and D's). That is what leads US to the "Road to Serfdom".
The Road to Serfdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Road to Serfdom (German: Der Weg zur Knechtschaft) is a book written by the Austrian-born economist and philosopher Friedrich von Hayek (1899–1992) between 1940–1943, in which he "[warns] of the danger of tyranny that inevitably results from government control of economic decision-making through central planning."[1] He further argues that the abandonment of individualism and classical liberalism inevitably leads to a loss of freedom, the creation of an oppressive society, the tyranny of a dictator, and the serfdom of the individual. Significantly, Hayek challenged the general view among British academics that fascism (and National Socialism) was a capitalist reaction against socialism. He argued that fascism, National Socialism and socialism had common roots in central economic planning and empowering the state over the individual.

I tend to agree with much of that. The unholy alliance of big money and govt is the single biggest problem we face. In the mean time the people are beating each other up over R vs D. I and many others have been saying it for a long time the two parties are flip sides of the same coin. No matter which side the coin lands on the winner is wall street and the govt officials they own. I still remember when Obama named his first economic team. I just laughed, so much for hope and change.

I particularly like the use of the term "classical liberal". I refuse to use the term "liberal" in ref to the left today. I heard a woman on NPR say that their are no liberals any more it's the "rigid left". You either agree with them lock stock and barrel or you're a racist nazi.

 

[rightwinger]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

Actually, when the economy is in a recession headed for depression, deficit spending is the best solution

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

Actually, when the economy is in a recession headed for depression, deficit spending is the best solution

Funny how it didn't work this time

 

[baileyn45]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Saying we have the strongest economy in the world is like being the best horse in the glue factory. The global economy of which we are a part is a house of cards. And the winds are a blowin.

 

[rightwinger]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

Actually, when the economy is in a recession headed for depression, deficit spending is the best solution

Funny how it didn't work this time

It did work

Recession was reversed, 9 million jobs were added, stock market boomed

Only problem was that we needed to put MORE money into the economy. The recovery would have been faster

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

Actually, when the economy is in a recession headed for depression, deficit spending is the best solution

Funny how it didn't work this time

It did work

Recession was reversed, 9 million jobs were added, stock market boomed

Only problem was that we needed to put MORE money into the economy. The recovery would have been faster

The Five Biggest Failures From President Obama's Stimulus Law

The stimulus was a failure and the economy recovered in spite of not because of it

 

[rightwinger]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Saying we have the strongest economy in the world is like being the best horse in the glue factory. The global economy of which we are a part is a house of cards. And the winds are a blowin.

We only have one world don't we?

Seven years ago we were having our asses kicked by Europe and China. The dollar was a joke. All that has reversed and we now have the strongest and most stable economy in the world

Looks like America has become great again

 

[rightwinger]

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

Actually, when the economy is in a recession headed for depression, deficit spending is the best solution

Funny how it didn't work this time

It did work

Recession was reversed, 9 million jobs were added, stock market boomed

Only problem was that we needed to put MORE money into the economy. The recovery would have been faster

The Five Biggest Failures From President Obama's Stimulus Law

The stimulus was a failure and the economy recovered in spite of not because of it

Heard that one before

Revisionist history....But, but....the economy would have recovered anyway. Obama was just lucky he came in when he did

 

[Skull Pilot]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Saying we have the strongest economy in the world is like being the best horse in the glue factory. The global economy of which we are a part is a house of cards. And the winds are a blowin.

We only have one world don't we?

Seven years ago we were having our asses kicked by Europe and China. The dollar was a joke. All that has reversed and we now have the strongest and most stable economy in the world

Looks like America has become great again

You fail to realize that the term most stable is relative

In a room full of one legged chairs the chair with 2 legs is the most stable

 

[Skull Pilot]

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

Actually, when the economy is in a recession headed for depression, deficit spending is the best solution

Funny how it didn't work this time

It did work

Recession was reversed, 9 million jobs were added, stock market boomed

Only problem was that we needed to put MORE money into the economy. The recovery would have been faster

The Five Biggest Failures From President Obama's Stimulus Law

The stimulus was a failure and the economy recovered in spite of not because of it

Heard that one before

Revisionist history....But, but....the economy would have recovered anyway. Obama was just lucky he came in when he did

It's true and it happened before
The Depression You've Never Heard Of: 1920-1921 | Robert P. Murphy

You people seem to think that nothing happened before FDR and now all favor deficit spending even though most likely the economy would recover on its own

 

[Anathema]

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

The Wednesday after the first Monday in November, 1860.

 

[Disgruntled_American]

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

The Wednesday after the first Monday in November, 1860.

Well if America isn't great, why are you here then?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

So as I have been saying all along there really is no difference between the parties

And in that I agree with you fully. The only difference is what they spend the money on. They both constantly increase the spending though.

The result is the same more debt and more government

And more people in poverty, ah yes how great America is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

So as I have been saying all along there really is no difference between the parties

And in that I agree with you fully. The only difference is what they spend the money on. They both constantly increase the spending though.

The result is the same more debt and more government

And more people in poverty, ah yes how great America is.

America's Real Poverty Rate Is Around And About Zero

 

[baileyn45]

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Only when a Republican is president. When a Republican is president nothing else matters, not the debt, deficit, unemployment, GDP, LFPR, nothing else matters.

You are wrong, it isn't about Republican or Democrat President but a "CONSERVATIVE" president that will
1. stop the corrupt politicians who keep putting earmarks on bills that would supply the country with its needs, pay national debt, military, Social Security, not pet projects like a bridge to nowhere.
2. stop using federal agencies to punish those who disagree with their ideas and values, like 501c3's and the IRS.
3. Get the EPA to be a overseer of companies and REPORT not create new laws that punish businesses for creating a product or service.
4. Get rid of the Federal Reserve(central bank) put America back on the gold standard, which then the government could no longer overspend and create more debt.
5. Privatize education, stop having property taxes used to funnel money to the NEA and NFTA, so that money could come back as campaign funds.
6. Stop bailing out FAILED companies, for if it is meant to FAIL, then no one wants it, so try something else, that is what Einstein did, why cant everyone else.
7. Stop the Cronie Capitalism where money from the government is loaned out to companies "FOR RESEARCH". Let companies charge what price they deem the product or service is worth, if the people are happy to pay, then it will work.
Allowing people to do what will make them better, using God given skills to the best of their abilities, not tell one group or another because of the color of their skin, they are at a disadvantage or have a certain privilege over the others.
Just because America has an economy better than Europe(because Europe sucks) and our Military has been decimated by Obama, NO we don't see America as great.
When liberals always talk about FAIRNESS, life was never meant to be fair, but when you don't have a liberal government in your way, then even the likes of Martin Luther King Jr. can be a great man.

You do realize a conservative president has no power to do what you labeled right? Especially number 4. This is what we call a dreamland for conservatives. It is why I laugh at all those on the right that are freaked out over Bernie when in fact Bernie couldn't do almost anything of what he is promising.

Good point. I'm talking to a lot of people that would identify as fiscal cons that don't fear bernie at all and would take him over Hillary in a heart beat. Bernies pie in the sky dreams are totally unattainable and would never get any where.

I also agree on nos 4, as much as I despise the fed, it ain't going to happen.

I would say nos 6 is huge. I've always thought that had we not bailed out citicorp in 1994 and long term capital management in 1998 maybe the markets would have learned. As I heard someone say capitalism without bankruptcy is like Catholicism without hell.

 

[edthecynic]

The stimulus was a failure and the economy recovered in spite of not because of it

Well at least you admit the GOP destroyed economy recovered.

 

[baileyn45]

Donald Trump's major talking point is that America is no longer great- so why do Conservatives believe America is no longer great?

When do Conservatives believe America stopped being great?

We have the worlds strongest economy and the worlds strongest military

I thought conservatives would consider that great

Saying we have the strongest economy in the world is like being the best horse in the glue factory. The global economy of which we are a part is a house of cards. And the winds are a blowin.

We only have one world don't we?

Seven years ago we were having our asses kicked by Europe and China. The dollar was a joke. All that has reversed and we now have the strongest and most stable economy in the world

Looks like America has become great again

Actually seven years ago there wasn't much ass kicking going on period.

As for the dollar, again, best horse in the glue factory. Kinda hard to brag about the strength of the dollar when it's strength is the result of the rest of the world devaluing their currencies. Like winning the 100m dash in 25 seconds because every one else ran it in 30.

In regards to the US economy being stable, we'll just have to disagree on that.

 

[Disgruntled_American]

The debt and deficit don't matter to democrats either

True, but that still doesn't make his statement any less true. Republicans HAVE complained about the debt under Dem presidents and congress yet have no problem themselves spending. The same goes for the Dems when Obama at the time, complained about Bush's spending.

So as I have been saying all along there really is no difference between the parties

And in that I agree with you fully. The only difference is what they spend the money on. They both constantly increase the spending though.

The result is the same more debt and more government

And more people in poverty, ah yes how great America is.

Well if America is so horrible to you, why are you here?