Why aren't more people Libertarian?

[occupied]

I'm curious who you see as a "European libertarian."

I was being pretty simplistic there but generally American libertarians are referred to as market liberals, right-libertarians or classical liberals by social scientists and they do exist in Europe where they are simply called liberals. There are many flavors and schools of thought to libertarianism and it is difficult to lump large numbers them together under any generic term but the European libertarian tradition has strong roots in anarchism and generally disdains any kind of undue concentration of power by government or big business and can be referred to as Left-Libertarianism.

Any names?

Are you talking about here in America? It's hard to say because as I explained even left-libertarians have many different ideologies concerning government, business, socialism, private property and so forth. It is a very broad area that I suspect you have not really investigated, do some reading on it and come back with a meaningful question.

 

[PredFan]

Many many people are Libertarian, they just don't realize it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I was being pretty simplistic there but generally American libertarians are referred to as market liberals, right-libertarians or classical liberals by social scientists and they do exist in Europe where they are simply called liberals. There are many flavors and schools of thought to libertarianism and it is difficult to lump large numbers them together under any generic term but the European libertarian tradition has strong roots in anarchism and generally disdains any kind of undue concentration of power by government or big business and can be referred to as Left-Libertarianism.

Any names?

Are you talking about here in America? It's hard to say because as I explained even left-libertarians have many different ideologies concerning government, business, socialism, private property and so forth. It is a very broad area that I suspect you have not really investigated, do some reading on it and come back with a meaningful question.

No, you say European libertarianism is different from American libertarianism. I'm asking you if you can give me the names of some European libertarians that I can look into. It would appear that you're having difficulty with this simple request.

Here are a few for you: Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Jörg Guido Hülsmann, Gerard Casey, and Jesús Huerta de Soto. All European libertarians, but in the Rothbardian tradition. Not whatever it is you're trying to pass off as libertarianism.

 

[Paulie]

Many many people are Libertarian, they just don't realize it.

I've been libertarian since I was a kid. I just never knew it was a political ideology until I started getting interested in politics. I've never liked authority, and have never gone with the herd.

I like the idea of being free to do what I want as long as it's at no one else's expense. I don't understand what's so crazy about that.

 

[Contumacious]

I like the idea of being free to do what I want as long as it's at no one else's expense. I don't understand what's so crazy about that.

The Educational Octopus

by MARK J. PERRY

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state

. –Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

.


Read more: The Educational Octopus : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

 

[occupied]

Any names?

Are you talking about here in America? It's hard to say because as I explained even left-libertarians have many different ideologies concerning government, business, socialism, private property and so forth. It is a very broad area that I suspect you have not really investigated, do some reading on it and come back with a meaningful question.

No, you say European libertarianism is different from American libertarianism. I'm asking you if you can give me the names of some European libertarians that I can look into. It would appear that you're having difficulty with this simple request.

Here are a few for you: Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Jörg Guido Hülsmann, Gerard Casey, and Jesús Huerta de Soto. All European libertarians, but in the Rothbardian tradition. Not whatever it is you're trying to pass off as libertarianism.

It appears you have me at a disadvantage here as I have only general knowledge on the subject but your hair splitting impresses me not. It is also important to note that believers in your particular brand are jealous of the label and usually just refer to these people generally as anarchists making little distinction between them.

 

[Paulie]

The argument about regulation is simple, or at least it should be.

There is a wealth of information out there in the marketplace. Most people probably only inform themselves about 10% of what they could. If people did their due diligence there's many situations where "protective" regulations wouldn't be necessary.

This being said though, there are definitely areas where it's out of the realm of possibility for people to protect themselves in the marketplace, and that's where regulations come into play.

A great example is truth in labeling. Without every ingredient and additive being disclosed on a product's label, it's impossible for the consumer to know exactly what they're consuming. You could go to a company's factory and ask to go inside and see what exactly they put in their food. They may let you, they may not.

Obviously we need some kind of regulations on medicine. I don't think that needs to be explained.

Just some examples...

 

[Paulie]

Are you talking about here in America? It's hard to say because as I explained even left-libertarians have many different ideologies concerning government, business, socialism, private property and so forth. It is a very broad area that I suspect you have not really investigated, do some reading on it and come back with a meaningful question.

No, you say European libertarianism is different from American libertarianism. I'm asking you if you can give me the names of some European libertarians that I can look into. It would appear that you're having difficulty with this simple request.

Here are a few for you: Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Jörg Guido Hülsmann, Gerard Casey, and Jesús Huerta de Soto. All European libertarians, but in the Rothbardian tradition. Not whatever it is you're trying to pass off as libertarianism.

It appears you have me at a disadvantage here as I have only general knowledge on the subject but your hair splitting impresses me not. It is also important to note that believers in your particular brand are jealous of the label and usually just refer to these people generally as anarchists making little distinction between them.

Don't you think that having "only general knowledge" ought to require to maybe sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and learn something?

 

[jillian]

Seriously, why aren't there more Libertarians out there?

Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?

randians aren't libertarians. that's why.

barry goldwater is rolling over in his grave

Correct. Randians are objectivists.

Barry Goldwater, the great warmonger, wasn't a libertarian either.

even ayn rand wasn't a randian.

randians are just absurd and want us to live in a dickensian world.

again...being a libertarian doesn't mean one is stupid and naive about foreign relations.

nor does it mean that they distort the meaning of the constitution and pretend 200 years of caselaw doesn't exist.

see how that works.

 

[occupied]

No, you say European libertarianism is different from American libertarianism. I'm asking you if you can give me the names of some European libertarians that I can look into. It would appear that you're having difficulty with this simple request.

Here are a few for you: Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Jörg Guido Hülsmann, Gerard Casey, and Jesús Huerta de Soto. All European libertarians, but in the Rothbardian tradition. Not whatever it is you're trying to pass off as libertarianism.

It appears you have me at a disadvantage here as I have only general knowledge on the subject but your hair splitting impresses me not. It is also important to note that believers in your particular brand are jealous of the label and usually just refer to these people generally as anarchists making little distinction between them.

Don't you think that having "only general knowledge" ought to require to maybe sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and learn something?

My general knowledge is still plenty to debate the subject, maybe you need to eat some turkey, watch some football and turn down the pointless rage for a while.

 

[Paulie]

It appears you have me at a disadvantage here as I have only general knowledge on the subject but your hair splitting impresses me not. It is also important to note that believers in your particular brand are jealous of the label and usually just refer to these people generally as anarchists making little distinction between them.

Don't you think that having "only general knowledge" ought to require to maybe sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and learn something?

My general knowledge is still plenty to debate the subject, maybe you need to eat some turkey, watch some football and turn down the pointless rage for a while.

I don't think it's plenty at all. I've seen enough of people thinking they know libertarians and libertarianism while actually displaying that they don't really have a clue, to accept that someone with "general knowledge" has any credibility in the debate.

The crazy thing is, you have only general knowledge but were the first to reply to the OP. I get the idea that a lot of you are fascinated with the ideology because it's different than what you see on TV everyday from either side of the aisle. But that difference frightens you.

 

[konradv]

Many many people are Libertarian, they just don't realize it.

I've been libertarian since I was a kid. I just never knew it was a political ideology until I started getting interested in politics. I've never liked authority, and have never gone with the herd.

I like the idea of being free to do what I want as long as it's at no one else's expense. I don't understand what's so crazy about that.

The problem is the one's that WILL take freedom at someone else's expense. For the system to work politically it would require a basic shift in human nature. In that regard, it's a lot like Marxism. Nobody likes to be told what to do and in that regard, we're all libertarians. The problem comes in the nuts and bolts of actual living and governing. No regulation inevitably means that a number of the strong will prey on the weak. The solution is to make sure regulation does what it's supposed to do, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Paulie]

Many many people are Libertarian, they just don't realize it.

I've been libertarian since I was a kid. I just never knew it was a political ideology until I started getting interested in politics. I've never liked authority, and have never gone with the herd.

I like the idea of being free to do what I want as long as it's at no one else's expense. I don't understand what's so crazy about that.

The problem is the one's that WILL take freedom at someone else's expense. For the system to work politically it would require a basic shift in human nature. In that regard, it's a lot like Marxism. Nobody likes to be told what to do and in that regard, we're all libertarians. The problem comes in the nuts and bolts of actual living and governing. No regulation inevitably means that a number of the strong will prey on the weak. The solution is to make sure regulation does what it's supposed to do, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

That's not true though. PLENTY of people like to be told what to do. For a lot of people, that's the only way they can survive.

 

[konradv]

I've been libertarian since I was a kid. I just never knew it was a political ideology until I started getting interested in politics. I've never liked authority, and have never gone with the herd.

I like the idea of being free to do what I want as long as it's at no one else's expense. I don't understand what's so crazy about that.

The problem is the one's that WILL take freedom at someone else's expense. For the system to work politically it would require a basic shift in human nature. In that regard, it's a lot like Marxism. Nobody likes to be told what to do and in that regard, we're all libertarians. The problem comes in the nuts and bolts of actual living and governing. No regulation inevitably means that a number of the strong will prey on the weak. The solution is to make sure regulation does what it's supposed to do, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

That's not true though. PLENTY of people like to be told what to do. For a lot of people, that's the only way they can survive.

Maybe some do, but that isn't an argument in favor of libertarianism. The rest still applies. Thanks for pointing out I've violated my own rule of disdaining absolutes.

 

[occupied]

Don't you think that having "only general knowledge" ought to require to maybe sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and learn something?

My general knowledge is still plenty to debate the subject, maybe you need to eat some turkey, watch some football and turn down the pointless rage for a while.

I don't think it's plenty at all. I've seen enough of people thinking they know libertarians and libertarianism while actually displaying that they don't really have a clue, to accept that someone with "general knowledge" has any credibility in the debate.

The crazy thing is, you have only general knowledge but were the first to reply to the OP. I get the idea that a lot of you are fascinated with the ideology because it's different than what you see on TV everyday from either side of the aisle. But that difference frightens you.

I have read on the subject for many years, enough to know that there is nothing simple about it. Simply talking about libertarianism comprises more than just the stunted American version that is mostly made up of clueless teabaggers and embarrassed republicans.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Why aren't more people Libertarian?

Is it because people don't know what Libertarians stand for?

Hmmmmmmmmm.......​

libertarian​

1 : an advocate of the doctrine of free will

2 : a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action

I'm thinkin' Liberals/Progressives should be busting "libertarians" for plagiarism.​

 

[Paulie]

Lol yeah because today's liberal is a TOTAL subscriber to the idea of "free will"

 

[Paulie]

My general knowledge is still plenty to debate the subject, maybe you need to eat some turkey, watch some football and turn down the pointless rage for a while.

I don't think it's plenty at all. I've seen enough of people thinking they know libertarians and libertarianism while actually displaying that they don't really have a clue, to accept that someone with "general knowledge" has any credibility in the debate.

The crazy thing is, you have only general knowledge but were the first to reply to the OP. I get the idea that a lot of you are fascinated with the ideology because it's different than what you see on TV everyday from either side of the aisle. But that difference frightens you.

I have read on the subject for many years, enough to know that there is nothing simple about it. Simply talking about libertarianism comprises more than just the stunted American version that is mostly made up of clueless teabaggers and embarrassed republicans.

Just the fact that you think the ideology is comprised mostly of tea partiers and embarrassed republicans shows me that your knowledge doesn't expand far beyond whatever you've learned about it on TV.

Before the Tea Party movement, MOST republicans couldn't stand libertariansm. After Ron Paul took off like he did, all the sudden it was cool to be libertarian.

You really lost points with that last sentence my man

 

[occupied]

Lol yeah because today's liberal is a TOTAL subscriber to the idea of "free will"

I can't buy a damned beer on Sunday here because conservatives are just so damned freedom loving.

 

[occupied]

I don't think it's plenty at all. I've seen enough of people thinking they know libertarians and libertarianism while actually displaying that they don't really have a clue, to accept that someone with "general knowledge" has any credibility in the debate.

The crazy thing is, you have only general knowledge but were the first to reply to the OP. I get the idea that a lot of you are fascinated with the ideology because it's different than what you see on TV everyday from either side of the aisle. But that difference frightens you.

I have read on the subject for many years, enough to know that there is nothing simple about it. Simply talking about libertarianism comprises more than just the stunted American version that is mostly made up of clueless teabaggers and embarrassed republicans.

Just the fact that you think the ideology is comprised mostly of tea partiers and embarrassed republicans shows me that your knowledge doesn't expand far beyond whatever you've learned about it on TV.

Before the Tea Party movement, MOST republicans couldn't stand libertariansm. After Ron Paul took off like he did, all the sudden it was cool to be libertarian.

You really lost points with that last sentence my man

Yeah I bet your so called libertarianism ends just as soon as someone offends your sense of decency, the debate over allowing mosques to build on "sacred ground" or just allowing a strip club or casino in your town puts the lie to most self described libertarians.