Zone1 Why are Christians opposed to abortion when God.....

[frigidweirdo]

The free speech Nazi. What makes you assume you can silence others because you know you can't defend your own ignorance? If you don't want to know the answer..........DON'T ASK THE QUESTION. Fascists always attack what they fear most.........knowledge.

I'll put you on ignore then, bye bye

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying it is difficult to have a conversation about God with someone who hasn't a clue about God and has no understanding of stories that are about God. To make it more difficult, you have no understanding of the themes/perspectives others have of Biblical accounts. I am speaking of God/Biblical accounts while you are speaking (and understanding) mud pies. I am of a family of atheists and we understand each other and our far different beliefs. The difference is that we are on the same page.

Again, two different people have different views. If you can't have a conversation with someone with different views, different knowledge, then why bother?

I actually enjoy having conversations with people with different views.

But it's your choice. Either have the conversation, or don't reply.

 

[Meriweather]

actually enjoy having conversations with people with different views.

As do I. Different views being the criteria.

 

[BULLDOG]

Do you believe human knowledge has grown over time, or do you believe there is no such thing as a natural disaster--God takes aim and fires when He is in the mood? Do you believe God causes every person's death no matter how they occur, or is death a part of every human life?

Pray about it?!? Snort. Either use the intelligence and knowledge we have in this day and age, or pray that you find the time to learn about natural disasters.

In early times, people of faith (and many Muslims still do) believed that no one can move as much as their little finger without it first being the will of God. The only reason the Twin Towers fell was because it was the will of God, and some Muslims were a little bit taken aback when it was not the will of God that anything in Washington DC be destroyed.

Do you hold these beliefs of God and religion?

So many questions, but I have a little more time for now. The only way to have this conversation is in the framework of christians actually believing what is in the bible,and their justification of so many dichotomies.
1. Of course knowledge has grown.
2. Natural disasters exist.
3. My belief about god is immaterial. This is a discussion about what Christians believe and why. Specifically how they justify opposing abortion when the god they worship has been shown in the bible to have killed countless innocent living children.
3. In this specific case, the bible says he took aim and fired when he was in the mood. The flood story doesn't depict the natural death by normally expected causes of those caught in the flood.
4. Death is a natural part of life, but the bible gives many examples where he extended or ended people's lives at will. In this case, he intentionally ended all the lives on earth except for a select few.
5. There is no reason to believe a world wide flood ever happened, or that the story of Noah is anything more than an ancient legend, probably started by a real localized flood that was exaggerated. Again, in the confines of this discussion, that doesn't matter either. If Christians believe it happened, they have to justify all those deaths to maintain the myth of a loving, forgiving god, and to justify their opposition to abortion.

 

[BULLDOG]

Using the knowledge available in his own time, the author of Noah's flood told a story of how human behavior brought about disaster. At the time there were other stories that had a great flood as the setting. Closer to our own time, we have numerous stories using the Civil War as a setting. Reading through them, we gain an understanding of what people knew--and didn't know--at that time. Each story has a theme, something that makes that account unique.

What human behavior was the author of the Noah account addressing and warning against?

Doesn't matter what behavior was being addressed. Why do you think that particular story can be ignored, yet all the other behaviors discussed in the bible must be adheared to. What criteria do you use to firmly believe one passage and ignore another?

 

[Clyde 154]

Again, two different people have different views. If you can't have a conversation with someone with different views, different knowledge, then why bother?

I actually enjoy having conversations with people with different views.

But it's your choice. Either have the conversation, or don't reply.

More ad hominem BS with a twist of fascism? LMAO Its the fool that does not want to learn but speaks only for the sake of seeking accolade under the pretension of intelligence. (Proverbs 1:22)

Funny as HELL.....you declare that "I" should not reply because I have a different view, yet...........you continue to contradict your supposed intelligence by REPLYING with a different opinion that is reserved for YOU ONLY? And you think that is freedom of speech? Fascism: Allowing only 1 point of view......you don't want an intelligent discussion.....you demand to control the content, context and subject matter without opposition.....THAT'S MIGHTY PROGRESSIVE OF YOU. Stop me from replying .........IF YOU CAN. That's what's great about the Bill of Rights.......it helps weed out the fools.

You are yet to present one objective point to defend the unjustified murder of children while in the womb........its all deflection away from the fact that you don't like the answers presented as documented in the Word of God.

YOUR "GOTCHA MOMENT" HAS TURNED ON YOU....NO? You just keep digging the hole deeper and deeper with your NON ANSWERS.

 

[frigidweirdo]

As do I. Different views being the criteria.

Then... conversation over, by the looks of things.

 

[Clyde 154]

Then... conversation over, by the looks of things.

There has never been a conversation.........you present a fascist one directional opinion then declare that you feel you have the authority to prohibit further conversation. As declared, that Gotcha Moment has a flip side to that coin....no? You can't stop free speech. You never even researched the very question you expect other to address. Why does God allow children to die........and it was explained in detail via presentation of Book, Chapter and Verse explaining why children are allowed to die.

There you go again............ignoring me by posting that you are ignoring me? Do you ever have any cognitive thoughts based upon logic and reason, must it always be subjective logical fallacies? LMAO Keep digging that hole........I realize you can't help it.....you must continue to masturbate (self gratify) your ego? How old are you 12 - 14?

 

[Meriweather]

If Christians believe it happened, they have to justify all those deaths to maintain the myth of a loving, forgiving god, and to justify their opposition to abortion.

That's been my whole point. It is you who say Christians believe what you believe about Noah's Ark. Undoubtedly some do. Most others think of it as a local natural disaster, and no more blame God for the deaths of humans and other animals than they would blame Him for the deaths caused by modern natural disasters.

Meanwhile, the author had a theme and lesson to present to the people of his own time. It started out with the people recognizing their behavior was not up to the ideal. What was it, specifically, they recognized about themselves?

 

[Meriweather]

Why do you think that particular story can be ignored,

I am insistent it not be ignored. One more time: What specific behavior needed to be changed/corrected?

 

[BULLDOG]

That's been my whole point. It is you who say Christians believe what you believe about Noah's Ark. Undoubtedly some do. Most others think of it as a local natural disaster, and no more blame God for the deaths of humans and other animals than they would blame Him for the deaths caused by modern natural disasters.

Meanwhile, the author had a theme and lesson to present to the people of his own time. It started out with the people recognizing their behavior was not up to the ideal. What was it, specifically, they recognized about themselves?

Christians don't believe the Flood story? I suspect I could find millions who disagree with you. However, since I'm discussing Christianity with you, your particular flavor of Christianity must be considered. Having said that, i'm back to needing to know just what parts of the bible you hold to be accurate, and what consistent criteria do you use to accept or ignore each part. Do you have a consistent criteria, or is it just a matter of what you feel is accurate as opposed to what you feel is not accurate?

 

[BULLDOG]

I am insistent it not be ignored. One more time: What specific behavior needed to be changed/corrected?

perhaps ignored is the wrong word. Obviously, you are saying it is not an accurate depiction of events. Why won't you tell me how you decide to believe parts of te bible as opposed to ignoring other parts?

 

[BULLDOG]

perhaps ignored is the wrong word. Obviously, you are saying it is not an accurate depiction of events. Why won't you tell me how you decide to believe parts of te bible as opposed to ignoring other parts?
Since it's a Christian story, you should be able to point to the verse/ verses that describe what behavior needed changing.

 

[Meriweather]

Christians don't believe the Flood story?

Not your version....

 

[Meriweather]

Christians don't believe the Flood story? I suspect I could find millions who disagree with you. However, since I'm discussing Christianity with you, your particular flavor of Christianity must be considered.

Go ahead...find your millions. I can find millions more who agree. I learned from them--and from Jews who have a deeper understanding of the Old Testament than many Christians.

What fascinates me, is your disdain of others. God is a cruel villain and Christians are either a bunch of idiots or develop their own "flavor" apparently to make an account easier to swallow?

Another analogy is often used. The Bible is written so that children can splash around in the shallows and adults can explore its great depths. The perspective you cling to is like one of a child splashing around in the shallows--and who has great fear of the depths.

 

[Meriweather]

i'm back to needing to know just what parts of the bible you hold to be accurate, and what consistent criteria do you use to accept or ignore each part. Do you have a consistent criteria, or is it just a matter of what you feel is accurate as opposed to what you feel is not accurate?

My criteria?

1. Know God
2. Know as much science, history, and Biblical cultures as possible
3. Know literature. Be able to identify the use of fables, folklore, Just So stories, myths, apocalyptic, proverbs, plays, poetry, etc. and how they are used to present themes and lessons.
4. The Bible is not about cold, hard scientific facts, it is about themes and lessons that present basic truths and philosophies.
5. Know the Bible as it is, what its original authors intended to teach their original audiences, not as what you want it to be. (Many atheists want it to be a weapon to bash people of faith.)
6. Don't splash around in the shallows--take courage and explore its depths. (Years, decades, a lifetime of study.)

 

[Meriweather]

Obviously, you are saying it is not an accurate depiction of events.

I am saying it is a very accurate presentation of a lesson which uses a great flood as its setting. Ask yourself, what did people about God? What did they believe about humanity? What lesson is being presented using the flood as a setting?

Why won't you tell me how you decide to believe parts of te bible as opposed to ignoring other parts?

I am not the one who "decides" what parts to believe about the Bible, so I suspect that is what you do and then project what you do onto others. I suggest reading all of what the Bible says instead of proof-texting. That prevents being unable to see the forest for the trees.

 

[BULLDOG]

My criteria?

1. Know God
2. Know as much science, history, and Biblical cultures as possible
3. Know literature. Be able to identify the use of fables, folklore, Just So stories, myths, apocalyptic, proverbs, plays, poetry, etc. and how they are used to present themes and lessons.
4. The Bible is not about cold, hard scientific facts, it is about themes and lessons that present basic truths and philosophies.
5. Know the Bible as it is, what its original authors intended to teach their original audiences, not as what you want it to be. (Many atheists want it to be a weapon to bash people of faith.)
6. Don't splash around in the shallows--take courage and explore its depths. (Years, decades, a lifetime of study.)

Trust me. I have more than just a working knowledge of the bible. I was a Christian since childhood. Grew up in the church. I was even a deacon for some years. The first thing I did upon retirement was an indepth study of the new testiment in order to become a better Christian. After some time there, I moved on to the old testiment. Only then did I realize just how much i had always taken as truth was not. Don't pretend you don't know exactly what I'm talking about when I mention a particular flavor of Christianity. Give specifics that are used in your personal choice of what is to be strictly followed as truth and what can be ignored. Those specifics must be equally adhered too for all biblical stories, or they are just a convienience you use to ignore the parts you don't particularly like.

 

[hobelim]

. There is no reason to believe a world wide flood ever happened, or that the story of Noah is anything more than an ancient legend, probably started by a real localized flood that was exaggerated

The story of Noah was written to educate Hebrew children like any fairy tale and was loosely based on an existing story that reflected an actual event.

Under over 11,000 feet of water on the bottom of the Indian Ocean, dated to the time of Gilgamesh, is the burckle crater which is 25 times the size of meteor crater in Arizona. The object that caused the crater would have instantly vaporized billions of metric tons of water into the atmosphere causing a worldwide deluge that would have lasted for weeks spawning superstorms and cyclones all over the world sweeping away every town city or settlement on every continent situated by rivers streams and even dry washes in the deserts, not to mention the mega tsunamis that would have instantly swept away every coastal city and settlement.

The story is not an exaggeration. If anything it isn't graphic enough to convey how mind boggling the devastation was for the inhabitants of the earth.

Its no wonder why many came to believe there was a superior being that could destroy the earth up there somewhere, that needed to be appeased with rituals, sacrifices, and prayers, lest 'we' incur his wrath.

Which doesn't preclude the possibility that it was an intentional act of superior intelligences.

 

[BULLDOG]

I am saying it is a very accurate presentation of a lesson which uses a great flood as its setting. Ask yourself, what did people about God? What did they believe about humanity? What lesson is being presented using the flood as a setting?

I am not the one who "decides" what parts to believe about the Bible, so I suspect that is what you do and then project what you do onto others. I suggest reading all of what the Bible says instead of proof-texting. That prevents being unable to see the forest for the trees.

You aren't the one who decides what you believe? In that case, I'm wasting my time discussing it with you. All you can do is repeat what you have been told to believe. I already heard all that before we even started the discussion.