Bfgrn
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So NO gun laws is what you support. And criminals have every right to own a gun, right pismoe?
Why anti gun people are so angry.....
- Thread starter 2aguy
- Start date
So NO gun laws is what you support. And criminals have every right to own a gun, right pismoe?
Bfgrn
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So tell me, HOW do we know who is and isn't a felon? The honor system?
Bfgrn
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Gun Owners Should Support Background Checks
The priority of Congress should be to keep guns away from criminals. The best way to do this is by expanding criminal background checks.
By MIKE THOMPSON
March 10, 2015
I’m a hunter and gun owner. I support the Second Amendment. For many Americans, myself included, guns are part of our culture and our upbringing. Congress cannot ignore this fact in its efforts to curb gun violence.
I’m also the father of two first responders and a grandfather who believes that we need smart gun laws that help keep American families safe.
To that end, the priority of Congress should be straightforward: Keep guns away from criminals, domestic abusers and the dangerously mentally ill while protecting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. The best way to do this is by expanding criminal background checks.
We don’t need to stop law-abiding citizens who use guns for hunting, sport shooting and personal protection from obtaining firearms. We need to stop criminals, domestic abusers and those with a history of dangerous mental illness from getting guns. The only way to know if someone falls into one of these categories is to conduct a background check.
This is a rationale that an overwhelming majority of gun owners support. It’s one that even the National Rifle Association used to support before it changed its stance. Ironically, by flip-flopping on expanded background checks, the gun lobby has undermined a legitimate effort to reduce gun violence and, in doing so, has left the door open for more stringent restrictions on Second Amendment rights in the future.
This isn’t the story the gun lobby tells. When expanded background checks are debated, the gun lobby presents moderate, gun-owning Americans and their congressional representatives with a false choice: If you’re for the Second Amendment, you cannot be for background check laws that help keep guns away from criminals.
This line of thinking couldn’t be further off base. In reality, the best way to make sure the Second Amendment is protected from overreaching gun laws is to reduce gun violence. And the best way to reduce gun violence is to expand background checks so that the number of places criminals, domestic abusers and the dangerously mentally ill can get guns is drastically decreased.
Currently, federal law requires criminal background checks only at federally licensed gun dealers. I recently reintroduced bipartisan legislation to close this loophole by expanding background checks to all advertised sales, such as those at gun shows and over the Internet.
Critics immediately said the bill was a threat to the Second Amendment. It isn’t. If it were, my name wouldn’t be on it.
I wrote this bill for two reasons. First, I support the Second Amendment and don’t want to see the gun rights that many law-abiding Americans enjoy undermined by more restrictive and less well-thought-out legislation, which is what will happen if gun violence continues unchecked. Second, I wrote the bill because background checks work. Every day that background checks are used, they stop more than 170 felons, some 50 domestic abusers and nearly 20 fugitives from buying a gun.
However, those same criminals can currently buy identical guns at a gun show or over the Internet with no questions asked. Closing these loopholes would keep guns from criminals and, in the long run, help protect Second Amendment rights by curbing gun violence and thereby lessening the calls for excessively stringent gun laws.
Read more: Gun Owners Should Support Background Checks - Mike Thompson - POLITICO Magazine
The priority of Congress should be to keep guns away from criminals. The best way to do this is by expanding criminal background checks.
By MIKE THOMPSON
March 10, 2015
I’m a hunter and gun owner. I support the Second Amendment. For many Americans, myself included, guns are part of our culture and our upbringing. Congress cannot ignore this fact in its efforts to curb gun violence.
I’m also the father of two first responders and a grandfather who believes that we need smart gun laws that help keep American families safe.
To that end, the priority of Congress should be straightforward: Keep guns away from criminals, domestic abusers and the dangerously mentally ill while protecting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. The best way to do this is by expanding criminal background checks.
We don’t need to stop law-abiding citizens who use guns for hunting, sport shooting and personal protection from obtaining firearms. We need to stop criminals, domestic abusers and those with a history of dangerous mental illness from getting guns. The only way to know if someone falls into one of these categories is to conduct a background check.
This is a rationale that an overwhelming majority of gun owners support. It’s one that even the National Rifle Association used to support before it changed its stance. Ironically, by flip-flopping on expanded background checks, the gun lobby has undermined a legitimate effort to reduce gun violence and, in doing so, has left the door open for more stringent restrictions on Second Amendment rights in the future.
This isn’t the story the gun lobby tells. When expanded background checks are debated, the gun lobby presents moderate, gun-owning Americans and their congressional representatives with a false choice: If you’re for the Second Amendment, you cannot be for background check laws that help keep guns away from criminals.
This line of thinking couldn’t be further off base. In reality, the best way to make sure the Second Amendment is protected from overreaching gun laws is to reduce gun violence. And the best way to reduce gun violence is to expand background checks so that the number of places criminals, domestic abusers and the dangerously mentally ill can get guns is drastically decreased.
Currently, federal law requires criminal background checks only at federally licensed gun dealers. I recently reintroduced bipartisan legislation to close this loophole by expanding background checks to all advertised sales, such as those at gun shows and over the Internet.
Critics immediately said the bill was a threat to the Second Amendment. It isn’t. If it were, my name wouldn’t be on it.
I wrote this bill for two reasons. First, I support the Second Amendment and don’t want to see the gun rights that many law-abiding Americans enjoy undermined by more restrictive and less well-thought-out legislation, which is what will happen if gun violence continues unchecked. Second, I wrote the bill because background checks work. Every day that background checks are used, they stop more than 170 felons, some 50 domestic abusers and nearly 20 fugitives from buying a gun.
However, those same criminals can currently buy identical guns at a gun show or over the Internet with no questions asked. Closing these loopholes would keep guns from criminals and, in the long run, help protect Second Amendment rights by curbing gun violence and thereby lessening the calls for excessively stringent gun laws.
Read more: Gun Owners Should Support Background Checks - Mike Thompson - POLITICO Magazine
2aguy
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this guys is an idiot.......when he says..."The gun lobby" you know he is a lefty....the fact that he is a hunter gives it away as well....I have a friend who is a hunter and he doesn't pay attention to the fight for the 2nd Amendment....he thinks "I have my shotgun for hunting, I don't need a pistol...so I am not worried about gun control...they don't want my shotgun" and he is wrong......they want all guns...including his shotgun.
This idiot falls prey to the dumb argument for Universal Background Checks....they want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and they think background checks will do that since...hey.....if criminals have to have their backgrounds checked...they can't get guns.....
That is magical thinking of the worst sort...since the federal background checks we have today don't do anything to stop criminals from getting guns today...
Criminals get around background checks today by having friends and family who can legally pass background checks by their guns.....they also get past background checks by buying stolen guns......they also get past background checks, less often, by using corrupt gun dealers.....dealers who know it is illegal to sell guns without background checks...but do it anyway....
Any of the method above will already circumvent new and improved Universal Background Checks.....before they are even implemented...
That anti-gunners don't understand that just shows they can't be trusted with designing gun laws....the laws they want don't work....at all.......
And what this idiot doesn't understand because he is a hunter and doesn't pay attention to the defense of the 2nd Amendment...he doesn't understand the agenda of the gun banners...the hard core gun banners.....they know universal background checks won't work......then why do they push for them? Because it is the next step to registration of all guns and owners......how is this? Because universal background checks won't stop criminals from getting guns, down the road they will come back and say Hey....these super duper background checks at gun shows aren't working...so now we need the next level of gun crime prevention.....between those pesky family members who can pass background checks who give their guns to their gang banger relatives....don't you know...and they will pass the next level of super duper background checks...which also won't work...
And then they will miraculously realize...you know......this whole background check system isn't going to work without the "common sense" practice of "registering all guns" because if we don't know who has the guns, we don't know who can't have them....
So this guy is an idiot.......
Thanks for trying though....
Here are 3 articles on why Universal Background Checks won't work and why they must lead to gun registration......
Why universal background checks won t work TheHill
Another article where it is shown registration is desired...
Do Background Checks Prevent Gun Violence KUOW News and Information
Daily kos article on background checks...
Why I oppose Universal Background Checks - A turning point
morning BFG : so now its Kansas added to Vermont , Alaska , Arizona and a few other states that are doing Constitutional Carry of concealed weapons . That's a good deal for people in those states and hopefully the trend for the USA . Looks like '2Aguy' answered a few of your questions . I'd also add that being a hunter means nothing as far as the '2nd Amendment' goes although its nice that you can hunt ducks with your shotgun !! Last but not least , keep criminals in jail or release them as 'free' men after they pay their debts to society !!
more good news BFG , black people are starting to see that its a good deal to be carrying and owning guns . --- More African-Americans Support Carrying Legal Guns For Self-Defense NPR --- its good news BFG and its pertinent to a general gun thread .
Bfgrn
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You keep parroting the same retarded false argument. It is rife with LIES, ridiculous false assumptions and the patented right wing retarded "slippery slope" fear infested squealing.
I have debunked your ignorance and you keep parroting the same crap. But parrots don't actually think....they mimic.
Let me ask you a yes/no question.
Would YOU risk going to prison and buy a gun for someone who can't pass a background check?
1) YES
2) NO
2aguy
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You haven't done anything other than show you can't think past the first step of gun control silliness....would I buy a gun for someone who can't own or carry one legally...no....but I know the law for one, and for another thing I am not part of a criminal culture where getting a gun for a family member or boyfriend in a gang is part of what you do.....since most illegal guns are already acquired in ways that get around current background checks.....your super duper universal background checks will not stop these methods either....
so it is you who have no idea what you are talking about....
Why universal background checks won t work TheHill
The gun, of course, was sold to someone who doesn’t have a criminal record—a straw purchaser. The straw purchaser buys the gun for someone who can’t. Sometimes a straw purchaser will even learn that a gun has turned up in a crime and will quickly report it as being stolen;
Most important is that criminals disobey such laws (and according to the Supreme Court in their Haynes vs. U.S. decision, criminals are not legally obligated to). In a report titled “Firearm Use by Offenders”, our own Federal Government noted that nearly 40 percent of all crime guns are acquired from street level dealers, who are criminals in the black market business of peddling stolen and recycled guns. Standing alone, this shows that “universal” background checks would have an incomplete effect on guns used in crimes.
The story gets worse. The same study notes that just as many crime guns were acquired by acquaintances, be they family or friends (this rather lose category also includes fellow criminals, who are equally unlikely to participate in “universal” background checks). Totaled, nearly 80 percent of crime guns are already outside of retail distribution channels (which are 14 percent of crime gun sources) and outside of transactions made by the law abiding folks who would participate in “universal” background checks at gun shows (0.7 percent).
And the Hill is not some right wing source either....I know you anti-gun nuts have pegged your hopes on preventing criminals from getting guns through the law......but the only people you effect are people who can pass background checks........
Criminals don't care...especially gang members who have been breaking the law since their early teenage years and they are the ones doing most of the illegal shooting.....
And here...another look at where criminals get their guns...
Inside the Black Market for Guns - Forbes
The gun, of course, was sold to someone who doesn’t have a criminal record—a straw purchaser. The straw purchaser buys the gun for someone who can’t. Sometimes a straw purchaser will even learn that a gun has turned up in a crime and will quickly report it as being stolen;
They used a laptop wired to a projection screen to show video of a man from Brooklyn named James Brady, a felon who moved to Alabama and came up with a very stupid criminal scheme. He talked women in Alabama who didn’t have criminal records into buying handguns and shotguns for him from Alabama gun stores. He then put the guns in his car’s trunk and drove to Brooklyn, New York, to sell the guns.
so it is you who have no idea what you are talking about....
Why universal background checks won t work TheHill
The gun, of course, was sold to someone who doesn’t have a criminal record—a straw purchaser. The straw purchaser buys the gun for someone who can’t. Sometimes a straw purchaser will even learn that a gun has turned up in a crime and will quickly report it as being stolen;
Most important is that criminals disobey such laws (and according to the Supreme Court in their Haynes vs. U.S. decision, criminals are not legally obligated to). In a report titled “Firearm Use by Offenders”, our own Federal Government noted that nearly 40 percent of all crime guns are acquired from street level dealers, who are criminals in the black market business of peddling stolen and recycled guns. Standing alone, this shows that “universal” background checks would have an incomplete effect on guns used in crimes.
The story gets worse. The same study notes that just as many crime guns were acquired by acquaintances, be they family or friends (this rather lose category also includes fellow criminals, who are equally unlikely to participate in “universal” background checks). Totaled, nearly 80 percent of crime guns are already outside of retail distribution channels (which are 14 percent of crime gun sources) and outside of transactions made by the law abiding folks who would participate in “universal” background checks at gun shows (0.7 percent).
And the Hill is not some right wing source either....I know you anti-gun nuts have pegged your hopes on preventing criminals from getting guns through the law......but the only people you effect are people who can pass background checks........
Criminals don't care...especially gang members who have been breaking the law since their early teenage years and they are the ones doing most of the illegal shooting.....
And here...another look at where criminals get their guns...
Inside the Black Market for Guns - Forbes
The gun, of course, was sold to someone who doesn’t have a criminal record—a straw purchaser. The straw purchaser buys the gun for someone who can’t. Sometimes a straw purchaser will even learn that a gun has turned up in a crime and will quickly report it as being stolen;
They used a laptop wired to a projection screen to show video of a man from Brooklyn named James Brady, a felon who moved to Alabama and came up with a very stupid criminal scheme. He talked women in Alabama who didn’t have criminal records into buying handguns and shotguns for him from Alabama gun stores. He then put the guns in his car’s trunk and drove to Brooklyn, New York, to sell the guns.
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2aguy
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You see.....the criminals already get past current back ground checks using techniques that will get past new and improved back ground checks......
More recently, a Bureau of Justice Statistics survey of state prison inmates convicted of gun-related crimes determined that 79 percent of them bought their firearms from “street/illegal sources” or “friends or family.” These “illegal sources” included thefts of firearms, black market purchases of stolen firearms and straw purchases.
I mentioned these studies and the agents agreed that criminals will find a way to arm themselves if they so desire.
So.....your solution is no solution at all and won't stop any of the 8-9,000 gun murders a year or any new mass shooting...since many mass shooters can simply pass background checks or they steal the guns they are going to use to commit mass murder
Still, these findings make it clear that requiring all private sales of firearms be put through the National Instant Background Check System (NICS) wouldn’t do anything to stop criminals from getting guns, as criminals are already largely getting their guns through thefts, straw purchases and other illegal means.
Later, my interviews with former inner-city gang members would confirm this. They told me they have no difficulty getting guns. A few even said they could introduce me to some people. I declined, of course, but I also asked if they found gun-control laws to be a deterrent. To a person they said “no.”
So who is more clueless...you or me....
You anti gunners want to stop criminals from getting guns...a noble idea....but there is no way to do it.....what you can do.....arrest criminals with guns and put them in jail for a very long time....that works every time.....then you don't have to waste money on a background check system that is easily circumvented by criminals......
More recently, a Bureau of Justice Statistics survey of state prison inmates convicted of gun-related crimes determined that 79 percent of them bought their firearms from “street/illegal sources” or “friends or family.” These “illegal sources” included thefts of firearms, black market purchases of stolen firearms and straw purchases.
I mentioned these studies and the agents agreed that criminals will find a way to arm themselves if they so desire.
So.....your solution is no solution at all and won't stop any of the 8-9,000 gun murders a year or any new mass shooting...since many mass shooters can simply pass background checks or they steal the guns they are going to use to commit mass murder
Still, these findings make it clear that requiring all private sales of firearms be put through the National Instant Background Check System (NICS) wouldn’t do anything to stop criminals from getting guns, as criminals are already largely getting their guns through thefts, straw purchases and other illegal means.
Later, my interviews with former inner-city gang members would confirm this. They told me they have no difficulty getting guns. A few even said they could introduce me to some people. I declined, of course, but I also asked if they found gun-control laws to be a deterrent. To a person they said “no.”
So who is more clueless...you or me....
You anti gunners want to stop criminals from getting guns...a noble idea....but there is no way to do it.....what you can do.....arrest criminals with guns and put them in jail for a very long time....that works every time.....then you don't have to waste money on a background check system that is easily circumvented by criminals......
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Bfgrn
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WOW, you are truly a MORON...
C.D. “Chuck” Michel -
Michel, a Long Beach-based contract attorney for the California Rifle and Pistol Association (CRPA) – the statewide affiliate of the National Rifle Association
didn't read the links 'BFG' but on Chuck Michel , he might be a fine guy , I've heard of him . Still his state is right at the top of the list when it comes to bad states for Guns and Gunowners . Besides that , he is an attorney so while he may be a nice guy I don't think I'd take his advice very seriously . Besides that he is from Long Beach , now that's a third world he11hole !! And by the way , where did Brian go , he seems to have disappeared 'BFG' ??
LOki
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Could you link to this "debunking" you did? I'm interested, but I can't find it.
I'll play this game. My answer is no.
Now it's your turn.
Consider yourself in the position of a prohibited person. Having committed yourself to obtaining a gun, and knowing you could not pass a background check, would you risk going to prison by obtaining a gun by some means where a background check would be performed, or otherwise submit to a background check?
1) YES
2) NO
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