Zone1 Who should receive reparations, and who should be excluded?

[hadit]

So essentially, you just admitted you didn't have an argument.

I merely pointed out some factors about your claim that you had to ignore in order to make it. Reagan lowered tax rates AND closed loopholes that the wealthy used to avoid those punitive and confiscatory tax rates, which means that basically no one paid them. You ignored that. You also ignored the reality that, post WWII, we were virtually the only nation with an intact manufacturing capability on the planet, so of course we could afford lavish benefits, we had no competition. Notice that, as soon as foreign competition heated up through the 70 's and 80's, those lavish benefits evaporated.

So sure, let's bring back the golden era when no one could compete with our manufacturing muscle and tax loopholes were everywhere to be found. You can have really high tax rates, but when no one is paying them they hardly matter. All we have to do is decimate the majority of the planet while leaving ourselves totally intact, jack tax rates sky high under the cover of, you know, reasons, children, and just sit down and shut up, create massive loopholes for everyone to avoid paying those rates, and viola, we're on top of the world again.

 

[JoeB131]

I merely pointed out some factors about your claim that you had to ignore in order to make it. Reagan lowered tax rates AND closed loopholes that the wealthy used to avoid those punitive and confiscatory tax rates, which means that basically no one paid them. You ignored that.

Because it wasn't relevant. If the rich weren't paying their fair share, they wouldn't have fought so hard for the Supply Side Bullshit. Except now they don't even argue that tax cuts make us all richer, now they are just saying they totally deserve to keep that money.

You also ignored the reality that, post WWII, we were virtually the only nation with an intact manufacturing capability on the planet, so of course we could afford lavish benefits, we had no competition. Notice that, as soon as foreign competition heated up through the 70 's and 80's, those lavish benefits evaporated.

That's really not true, either. In fact, during the Korean War, the US had to HEAVILY rely on Japanese manufacturers to support the war effort. Most of the world had shaken off the effects of the war by 1955. Yet we had some pretty good prosperity going on well until the mid-1970's.

 

[hadit]

Because it wasn't relevant. If the rich weren't paying their fair share, they wouldn't have fought so hard for the Supply Side Bullshit. Except now they don't even argue that tax cuts make us all richer, now they are just saying they totally deserve to keep that money.

And, of course, "fair share" just means, "whatever you're paying now, pay more". So jack the rates. You'll get maybe one or two years of increased revenue, than the rich make it all disappear. That's why Bill Gates has an army of tax attorneys to make sure he pays as little as possible. You're never going to get the "rich to pay their fair share" because they will always have more than you, which drives your envy to demand they pay more. Naturally, you don't expect it to ever reach you, but it will.

That's really not true, either. In fact, during the Korean War, the US had to HEAVILY rely on Japanese manufacturers to support the war effort. Most of the world had shaken off the effects of the war by 1955. Yet we had some pretty good prosperity going on well until the mid-1970's.

And what happened in the 70's? The Carter doldrums and the Japanese bypassed our union auto manufacturing with better made, cheaper cars and electronics. They've never looked back.

 

[JoeB131]

And what happened in the 70's? The Carter doldrums and the Japanese bypassed our union auto manufacturing with better made, cheaper cars and electronics. They've never looked back.

Wow, you clearly aren't old enough to remember the 70's...

 

[KissMy]

Blacks boast how they have it better than the rest of us in the USA.

 

[hadit]

Wow, you clearly aren't old enough to remember the 70's...

I remember going over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge during the oil embargo and seeing oil tankers lined up as far as the eye could see, waiting to unload. Now, which part of the 70's do you think was different? The Carter doldrums were for real, inflation was sky-high and we desperately needed Reagan when he came along. The first Japanese cars were terrible, but it didn't take them long to figure out how to defeat the American union made cars, and they've never looked back.

 

[JoeB131]

I re

I remember going over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge during the oil embargo and seeing oil tankers lined up as far as the eye could see, waiting to unload. Now, which part of the 70's do you think was different? The Carter doldrums were for real, inflation was sky-high and we desperately needed Reagan when he came along. The first Japanese cars were terrible, but it didn't take them long to figure out how to defeat the American union made cars, and they've never looked back.

Well, clearly if there were tankers waiting to unload, there wasn't much of an embargo, was there?

No, we didn't need Reagan. Reagan truly fucked things up (and I voted for that fool twice!)

Reagan beat inflation by destroying the middle class and shifting the tax burden away from the investor class and to the working class.

 

[hadit]

Well, clearly if there were tankers waiting to unload, there wasn't much of an embargo, was there?

No, we didn't need Reagan. Reagan truly fucked things up (and I voted for that fool twice!)

Reagan beat inflation by destroying the middle class and shifting the tax burden away from the investor class and to the working class.

That was part of the Carter malaise, and thank God Reagan came along when he did.

 

[JoeB131]

That was part of the Carter malaise, and thank God Reagan came along when he did.

Except inflation was already going down when Reagan got there, and he still destroyed the middle class.

 

[hadit]

Except inflation was already going down when Reagan got there, and he still destroyed the middle class.

It really was Morning in America.

 

[JoeB131]

It really was Morning in America.

was it, though?

Now, I get why you guys have turned Reagan into this legend. He's the only Republican since Ike who wasn't voted out of office (Ford, Bush, Trump), forced to resign (Nixon), or left the country in a major recession (Nixon, Ford, Both Bushes and Trump). So I can see where you all love him, as he was the only one whose fuckups didn't hit until someone else's watch.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Only for descendants of African slaves. A separate tax credit should be given to all people who are black based on legacy and ongoing racism on a day to day basis.

Agree 100%.

Descendants of Russian Serfs got Reparations in 1918 -- soon after the 1917 Revolution. My grandparents and parents grew up in apartments confiscated from nobles in 1918. These were hard economic times in USSR, and there was one family per room.

I myself grew up with my parents (alive and well) and Grandmother (RIP) in a new house built in 1960.

Most serfs were Great Russians, but during 1828-1858 many Jews were enserfed. All descendants of serfs obtained Reparations in 1918-1920 timeline.

 

[Man of Ethics]

During 1947-1953, descendants of East European serfs got Reparations -- most of the former nobles' property.

As a Jew I am proud of Leon Trotsky. Sadly, after Leon Trotsky was exiled from USSR, Communism turned Totalitarian.

 

[Man of Ethics]

This is where the argument for reparations falls into a logical chasm ...

If the basis for proposed reparations is American Slavery (distinct from all other forms of historical slavery) then it will fail to convince a majority of voters that anyone who isn't a victim of that slavery should receive reparations;

Most people inherit property from their ancestors. Thus, descendants of Russian serfs obtained Reparations in 1918-1920 and descendants of East European serfs obtained Reparations in 1947-53.


I have nostalgic memory of central parts of Leningrad (St. Petersburg). All of that area was built for nobles in XVIIIth and XIXth Centuries, and all was confiscated from them in 1918-1920.


As a Jew I am proud of Leon Trotsky. Sadly, Communism became Totalitarian after Leon Trotsky was exiled.

 

[hadit]

was it, though?

View attachment 696217

Now, I get why you guys have turned Reagan into this legend. He's the only Republican since Ike who wasn't voted out of office (Ford, Bush, Trump), forced to resign (Nixon), or left the country in a major recession (Nixon, Ford, Both Bushes and Trump). So I can see where you all love him, as he was the only one whose fuckups didn't hit until someone else's watch.

The 80's were the pinnacle of American success, thanks to Reagan. He pulled us out of the Carter malaise.

 

[JoeB131]

The 80's were the pinnacle of American success, thanks to Reagan. He pulled us out of the Carter malaise.

No, he didn't. Unemployment in his first term spiked at 11.3% and was at the same level it was when he got elected at the end of his term.

The middle class continued to decline...

I mean, I get why you guys love Reagan, compared to every other Republican President since Ike, he wins the Special Olympics.

 

[hadit]

No, he didn't. Unemployment in his first term spiked at 11.3% and was at the same level it was when he got elected at the end of his term.

The middle class continued to decline...

I mean, I get why you guys love Reagan, compared to every other Republican President since Ike, he wins the Special Olympics.

It was a great decade. Taxes were slashed and the economic engine went into overdrive.

 

[JoeB131]

It was a great decade. Taxes were slashed and the economic engine went into overdrive.

If you were rich, it was awesome.

For the working class... not so much.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Just for discussion purposes, let’s say reparations move forward. Who gets it, and who is exempt; and by the same token, which whites have to pay in and which are exempt?

Blacks to be excluded:

1) Since two out of three blacks were admitted to a college they would have been rejected from had they been white, they have already received reparations. Thus, blacks with a GPA and test score lower than ANY accepted white in their entering class clearly got in due to being black, and they will not get reparations.

2) Any black earning more than $75,000. This is about 50% more than the average earner, and thus they aren’t suffering because of past racism.

3) Any black whose family arrived here after 1965 If living in the South, or after 1865 if living in the North.

Whites who don’t have to pay reparations:

1) Any white student with a GPA above 3.4 who couldn’t get into medical school and had to give up their dream. Blacks got into med school with this GPA (some got in with a measly 3.2), and thus these whites have already paid the price.

2) Any white earning less than $50,000. They haven’t benefited from ”white privilege” and are most likely uneducated. They should not have to pay off blacks with a college degree.

3) Any white whose family arrived here after 1965 If living in the South, or 1865 if living in the North.

Seeing I am Canadian Born mean I am excluded no matter what and if any Blacks think I should pay just because I am white, well ain’t that racist of them!

 

[hadit]

If you were rich, it was awesome.

For the working class... not so much.

I wasn't rich, I was just starting out, and it was awesome. Jobs were plentiful, and if I didn't like the one I was in, I could go down the street for a raise.