Who owns the west?

[Billy_Kinetta]

There are only three Constitutional circumstances wherein the federal government may claim state lands in perpetuity.

Parks and monuments are not included.

That is an opinion not supported by law. Tough beans.

Neither precedence nor case law nor legislation nor executive order alters the Constitution.

That's your opinion, which is your . . . opinion.

That's a fact, ya nit.

Nope. You have no source, no evidence, no fact, no logic, no nada.

You're the model complete idiot. No further assembly required.

 

[flacaltenn]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

And that's a huge problem. Because MOST of that land was put under BLM because no one wanted it at the time. Not even the Forestry service. Time to reshuffle those cards. I've proposed that a large part of those holdings should be given to the Indian Tribes as repayment for raiding and stealing from the "Indian Trust Fund".

That huge Federal holding leads to classic "tragedy of the commons" where the ownership is not CLOSELY COUPLED or bonded that land. And looks at it as a job, not an asset. A lot could be devolved to orgs like the Nature Conservancy whom the public trusts FAR MORE than the Forestry or BLM. And the BULK of that land should devolve to state control..

I have no problem whatsoever with tribal lands being under their jurisdiction.

You mean the tribes having title to some of those holdings but UNDER the jurisdiction of BLM -- right?

There is no doubt that the tribes would be BETTER stewards and make better use of that land than the Fed Govt. So would the Nature Conservancy and similar private groups... They'd even PAY to defray costs.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You mean the tribes having title to some of those holdings but UNDER the jurisdiction of BLM -- right?

No. I mean under the jurisdiction of the tribes.

 

[OKTexas]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Show me the constitutional authority for the feds to retain land in a territory granted Statehood.

 

[flacaltenn]

Do lefties really think portions of the U.S. are "owned" rather than governed? Maybe that's the reason the democrat party lost most of the governorships in the last decade. Why do lefties think "we the people" isn't the same as the federal government?

Literally -- the red space on that map is OWNED and MANAGED by the Fed Govt. No shit Sherlock..

Which means generally, neglect, lack of incentive to improve it or determine fair uses, underfunding, and a lot of other bad stuff...

 

[flacaltenn]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Show me the constitutional authority for the feds to retain land in a territory granted Statehood.

It IS in the Constitution. For acquisition of DC, forts, monuments, etc. But it's vague. And certainly not in perpetuity and forever within a fully functioning State...

 

[MisterBeale]

Do lefties really think portions of the U.S. are "owned" rather than governed? Maybe that's the reason the democrat party lost most of the governorships in the last decade. Why do lefties think "we the people" isn't the same as the federal government?

We the People are represented by the federal government.

 

[OKTexas]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Show me the constitutional authority for the feds to retain land in a territory granted Statehood.

It IS in the Constitution. For acquisition of DC, forts, monuments, etc. But it's vague. And certainly not in perpetuity and forever within a fully functioning State...

Me thinks you should read that again, here, I'll help. My bold

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

So where do you see national parks, monuments, wildlife refuges or anything else not necessary to the function of the federal government?

 

[flacaltenn]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Show me the constitutional authority for the feds to retain land in a territory granted Statehood.

It IS in the Constitution. For acquisition of DC, forts, monuments, etc. But it's vague. And certainly not in perpetuity and forever within a fully functioning State...

Me thinks you should read that again, here, I'll help. My bold

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

So where do you see national parks, monuments, wildlife refuges or anything else not necessary to the function of the federal government?

It's in the same place as the authority for National Parks. Or Atomic Weapons testing. Or ICBM silos.. You wanna buy some Fed land in Nevada for cheap? It's got a LOT of 2 headed snakes on it..

 

[OKTexas]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Show me the constitutional authority for the feds to retain land in a territory granted Statehood.

It IS in the Constitution. For acquisition of DC, forts, monuments, etc. But it's vague. And certainly not in perpetuity and forever within a fully functioning State...

Me thinks you should read that again, here, I'll help. My bold

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

So where do you see national parks, monuments, wildlife refuges or anything else not necessary to the function of the federal government?

It's in the same place as the authority for National Parks. Or Atomic Weapons testing. Or ICBM silos.. You wanna buy some Fed land in Nevada for cheap? It's got a LOT of 2 headed snakes on it..

Atomic weapons were tested on military test ranges and most silos are on land purchased with the consent of the State. There is no authority for National Parks. That was invented by SCOTUS.

 

[flacaltenn]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Show me the constitutional authority for the feds to retain land in a territory granted Statehood.

It IS in the Constitution. For acquisition of DC, forts, monuments, etc. But it's vague. And certainly not in perpetuity and forever within a fully functioning State...

Me thinks you should read that again, here, I'll help. My bold

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

So where do you see national parks, monuments, wildlife refuges or anything else not necessary to the function of the federal government?

It's in the same place as the authority for National Parks. Or Atomic Weapons testing. Or ICBM silos.. You wanna buy some Fed land in Nevada for cheap? It's got a LOT of 2 headed snakes on it..

Atomic weapons were tested on military test ranges and most silos are on land purchased with the consent of the State. There is no authority for National Parks. That was invented by SCOTUS.

All I know is the Feds mismanage that land. Create friction with the States and have no consistent plan for releasing it. As well as giving some back to the Tribes, the Treasury needs money. Time for a "Garage Sale". Should be able to raise enough to build a wall and pay for 2 or 3 quick wars...

 

[OKTexas]

There are only three Constitutional circumstances wherein the federal government may claim state lands in perpetuity.

Parks and monuments are not included.

That is an opinion not supported by law. Tough beans.

It's an opinion supported by the Constitution.

 

[OKTexas]

Do lefties really think portions of the U.S. are "owned" rather than governed? Maybe that's the reason the democrat party lost most of the governorships in the last decade. Why do lefties think "we the people" isn't the same as the federal government?

We the People are represented by the federal government.

That's a lie, we the people are represented IN the federal government and only represented by the federal government in the very specific enumerated powers granted that government by the States. Such as interstate and international trade, and foreign affairs.

 

[bripat9643]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

The federal government shouldn't own any property that isn't required to perform its legitimate functions. That means 99% of what you see on your map should be sold.

 

[Rustic]

Federal government cannot afford to pay for the maintenance of all that Federal land, best if it's turned over to the states

 

[westwall]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

And they keep we the people from using our land.

 

[Camp]

Federal government cannot afford to pay for the maintenance of all that Federal land, best if it's turned over to the states

That doesn't seem to make sense. How could a state afford to maintain and protect the land? One season of wildfires would break the state treasuries.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That's a lie, we the people are represented IN the federal government and only represented by the federal government in the very specific enumerated powers granted that government by the States. Such as interstate and international trade, and foreign affairs.

Quit deflecting.

We the People are represented by the Federal Government in managing our federal land. The states do not own the land that they, as territories, transfered for the people to the Federal Government as part of state hood.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Federal government cannot afford to pay for the maintenance of all that Federal land, best if it's turned over to the states

That is your unfounded wish in place of the reality that the Feds can and do maintain the land.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

That's a lie, we the people are represented IN the federal government and only represented by the federal government in the very specific enumerated powers granted that government by the States. Such as interstate and international trade, and foreign affairs.

Quit deflecting.

We the People are represented by the Federal Government in managing our federal land. The states do not own the land that they, as territories, transfered for the people to the Federal Government as part of state hood.

Excuse me, but the feds are not The Empire. Beyond the mandated and extremely limited responsibilities assigned the federal government under the Constitution, the states are sovereign. No land was "transferred" by way of statehood.

If you're going to make stuff up, at least make it entertaining.