Who is the Liar?

[ForeverYoung436]

Very technically, Sephardic Jews come from Spain and Portugal (Sephard means Spain), and Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews come from the Middle East and North Africa. But the common practice today is to call all Jews from the Middle East and North Africa Sephardic.

Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe, primarily Germany (Ashkenaz is an ancient name for Germany). Yiddish is basically German written in Hebrew letters.

ForeverYoung,

It is my understanding that Mizrahi Jews are the ones who never left
the Land of Israel or surrounding Asia Minor areas, like Mesopotamia, etc, like the Jews of Babylon.

Those who come from North Africa may be considered Ashkenazi or Sephardic, depending on which part of Europe they came from.

Here is a link defining who is who:

Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews | My Jewish Learning

You're coming at this with the exact, technical definition. And you're right. But in Yeshiva (Hebrew school), we used to call Syrian and Egyptian Jews Sephardic, although Mizrahi is the more correct term for them.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Very technically, Sephardic Jews come from Spain and Portugal (Sephard means Spain), and Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews come from the Middle East and North Africa. But the common practice today is to call all Jews from the Middle East and North Africa Sephardic.

Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe, primarily Germany (Ashkenaz is an ancient name for Germany). Yiddish is basically German written in Hebrew letters.

ForeverYoung,

It is my understanding that Mizrahi Jews are the ones who never left
the Land of Israel or surrounding Asia Minor areas, like Mesopotamia, etc, like the Jews of Babylon.

Those who come from North Africa may be considered Ashkenazi or Sephardic, depending on which part of Europe they came from.

Here is a link defining who is who:

Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews | My Jewish Learning

You're coming at this with the exact, technical definition. And you're right. But in Yeshiva (Hebrew school), we used to call Syrian and Egyptian Jews Sephardic, although Mizrahi is the more correct term for them.

I am curious:

Why is it that Yeshiva would call Syrian and Egyptian Jews, Sepharadic?

What was the basis for it?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Very technically, Sephardic Jews come from Spain and Portugal (Sephard means Spain), and Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews come from the Middle East and North Africa. But the common practice today is to call all Jews from the Middle East and North Africa Sephardic.

Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe, primarily Germany (Ashkenaz is an ancient name for Germany). Yiddish is basically German written in Hebrew letters.

ForeverYoung,

It is my understanding that Mizrahi Jews are the ones who never left
the Land of Israel or surrounding Asia Minor areas, like Mesopotamia, etc, like the Jews of Babylon.

Those who come from North Africa may be considered Ashkenazi or Sephardic, depending on which part of Europe they came from.

Here is a link defining who is who:

Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews | My Jewish Learning

You're coming at this with the exact, technical definition. And you're right. But in Yeshiva (Hebrew school), we used to call Syrian and Egyptian Jews Sephardic, although Mizrahi is the more correct term for them.

I am curious:

Why is it that Yeshiva would call Syrian and Egyptian Jews, Sepharadic?

What was the basis for it?

I don't know for sure. My guesses are as follows: 1) It's easier to divide Jews into 2 categories, rather than 3, 4 or 5 categories. 2) After the Expulsion from Spain in 1492, many Spanish Jews relocated to the Middle East, where they intermingled with the Jews had who never left that area.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Very technically, Sephardic Jews come from Spain and Portugal (Sephard means Spain), and Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews come from the Middle East and North Africa. But the common practice today is to call all Jews from the Middle East and North Africa Sephardic.

Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe, primarily Germany (Ashkenaz is an ancient name for Germany). Yiddish is basically German written in Hebrew letters.

ForeverYoung,

It is my understanding that Mizrahi Jews are the ones who never left
the Land of Israel or surrounding Asia Minor areas, like Mesopotamia, etc, like the Jews of Babylon.

Those who come from North Africa may be considered Ashkenazi or Sephardic, depending on which part of Europe they came from.

Here is a link defining who is who:

Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews | My Jewish Learning

You're coming at this with the exact, technical definition. And you're right. But in Yeshiva (Hebrew school), we used to call Syrian and Egyptian Jews Sephardic, although Mizrahi is the more correct term for them.

I am curious:

Why is it that Yeshiva would call Syrian and Egyptian Jews, Sepharadic?

What was the basis for it?

I don't know for sure. My guesses are as follows: 1) It's easier to divide Jews into 2 categories, rather than 3, 4 or 5 categories. 2) After the Expulsion from Spain in 1492, many Spanish Jews relocated to the Middle East, where they intermingled with the Jews had who never left that area.

I do understand putting Syrian Jews in the Mizrahi category, if they never left Asia Minor, but not the Egyptian ones as it is part of North Africa.

Yes, for a long time there seemed to be only two categories being talked about. The Mizrahi would be included in either one until a few decades ago when some Mizrahi began to speak about it.

Sepharadic mingled with Mizrahi, and even Ashkenazi Jews in Asia Minor after the Inquisition expulsion.

The endless melting pot of the Jewish People

 

[fanger]

Black Hebrew Israelites - Wikipedia

 

[Sixties Fan]

Black Hebrew Israelites - Wikipedia

While Black Christians traditionally have identified spiritually with the Children of Israel, they did not claim to be physical descendants of the Israelites until the late 19th century.[8] This identification with the Israelites was a response to the sociopolitical realities of their situation in the United States, including discrimination. For African-Americans, appropriating Jewish history was part of a rebellion against the American racial hierarchy that deemed Africans inferior. It was also a means of fulfilling their desire to know their origins and regain their lost history.[9]

Black Hebrew Israelites - Wikipedia

---------
Not until the 19th Century.
Appropriating Jewish History.

Not the first ones, and may not be the last.

Reminds me of all the Arabs who are now calling themselves Palestinians and trying to convince the world that their history in the region goes back 10,000 years.

They are also doing it because something is missing in their life.
The land where the sovereign country of Israel stands.

 

[Roudy]

My numbers did show numbers that were based on 1905 Ottoman Census numbers, corroborated by several independent sources, including Muslims and Arabs. Like I said, if you have different 1905 Ottoman census numbers, put those up or shut up.

You just have to go to page 166/167 of the census.

Jews numbered 3,980 males and 3,903 females

OTTOMAN POPULATION, 1830-1914: Demographic and Social Characteristics, By KEMAL H. KARPAT

Still a handful in 1905. Of course there would be little growth as it was against the law for Jews to settle in Palestine.

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that:

[Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire."

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

Kemal the Muslim propagandist crackpot doesn't even have Ottoman census numbers for 1905 specifically. So again, you have nothing but repetitive bullshit.

The results of the 1905 census are on pages 166 and 167. Why do you insist on lying? You lost, give it up.

Black Hebrew Israelites - Wikipedia

There are Black Christians and Muslims too. What a suprise!

 

[Roudy]

My numbers did show numbers that were based on 1905 Ottoman Census numbers, corroborated by several independent sources, including Muslims and Arabs. Like I said, if you have different 1905 Ottoman census numbers, put those up or shut up.

You just have to go to page 166/167 of the census.

Jews numbered 3,980 males and 3,903 females

OTTOMAN POPULATION, 1830-1914: Demographic and Social Characteristics, By KEMAL H. KARPAT

Still a handful in 1905. Of course there would be little growth as it was against the law for Jews to settle in Palestine.

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that:

[Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire."

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

Kemal the Muslim propagandist crackpot doesn't even have Ottoman census numbers for 1905 specifically. So again, you have nothing but repetitive bullshit.

The results of the 1905 census are on pages 166 and 167. Why do you insist on lying? You lost, give it up.

There is no specific 1905 census in your document, nor are there other citations, nor is there a bibliography of authors and sources. It's all some nutjob Muslim Turk named Kemal's interpretation. Whereas my sources are coroborated by a long list of historians and well known researchers (some of them Muslims and or Arabs) using govt's and official sources. You as always are a fulla shit liar. Game over.

"The Ottoman census figures of 1905 reveal a total of 32,400 Ottoman nationals in Jerusalem: 13,400 Jews, 11,000 Muslims, and 8,000 Christians. However, these numbers do not reflect those with foreign nationality living in the city which more than likely would raise the numbers of Jews and Christians."

Sorry Achmed, you're shit outta luck on this one. Propaganda fail!

 

[Hollie]

Black Hebrew Israelites - Wikipedia

While Black Christians traditionally have identified spiritually with the Children of Israel, they did not claim to be physical descendants of the Israelites until the late 19th century.[8] This identification with the Israelites was a response to the sociopolitical realities of their situation in the United States, including discrimination. For African-Americans, appropriating Jewish history was part of a rebellion against the American racial hierarchy that deemed Africans inferior. It was also a means of fulfilling their desire to know their origins and regain their lost history.[9]

Black Hebrew Israelites - Wikipedia

---------
Not until the 19th Century.
Appropriating Jewish History.

Not the first ones, and may not be the last.

Reminds me of all the Arabs who are now calling themselves Palestinians and trying to convince the world that their history in the region goes back 10,000 years.

They are also doing it because something is missing in their life.
The land where the sovereign country of Israel stands.

"They are also doing it because something is missing in their life."

Something like a relevancy that is missing in relation to their existence?