Who is the Liar?

[Roudy]

"What is hateful about pointing out that the vast majority of native Jews converted to Christianity after Christianity became the state religion of Rome."
Um, because they didn't, ahole. You have no evidence for it, other than wishful thinking of an antisemite.

I have provided the evidence from Jewish sources hundreds of times.

"Arabs of Jewish Descent in Israel
Up to 85% of Arabs in greater Israel stem from Jewish ancestors."

Arabs of Jewish Descent in Israel


Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin...."

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

Both can be true, as evidenced there were many more Jews that didn't convert, kept coming back, and formed vibrant communities as early as 1400's and even before. And today, majority of Israel's population actually consists of Jews from Arab countries who are direct descendants of the Jews that fled the first and second temple destructions. In other words, the REAL natives are back.

No, the natives are the people that always lived in Palestine. Their descendants are the Muslim and Christian Palestinians. The majority of the Jews in Israel descend from European Jews, either from Iberia, Central and Western Europe or Russia.

Ha ha ha. How exactly did Islam arrive in Israel if not by invasion, dufus? The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry doesn't somehow change Israel from being the Jewish holy land, or take away the Jewish people's religious, cultural, and ancestral ties to the land.

This part sounds confusing:

"The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry"


The Jews who came from Europe have Jewish ancestry. We do not know how many of those either converted to Judaism, or married someone who was indeed of European ancestry, Germans, Spaniards, etc. And it does not matter.

Whether they are Sepharadic or Ashkenazi, most have Land of Israel ancestry, and therefore have every right to return to their ancestral homeland.
Unlike the lies told by Jew haters that ALL Jews who came from Europe in the 19th-20th century are nothing but "converts" to Judaism.

The same goes to those who stayed on the land, or were living anywhere around Asia Minor. Misrahi.
Or those who were made to leave Spain or any other European country by expulsion or any other reason, and RETURNED to their ancient homeland or nearby during or after the Inquisition, or any of the pogroms which happened in Europe.

Most came from the Land of Israel, and it has been from the start that there were those who came into the tribes via marriage or conversion, just as it happens with any other tribe or nation.

Jew haters attempts at whipping out all Jews, whitewashing all of their history, and their numbers at any given time is the issue.

These Jew haters want to wipe out all indigenous Jews in order to give the Arabs, who are not the indigenous people of the land, the RIGHT to discriminate, delegitimize, attack and kill as many Jews as they are allowed to.

Monte is a prime example of a Jew hater who wishes to wipe out all Jews from the planet.
First their history.
Then their numbers.
Then anything else Monte can do to help destroy Israel..


Pity that his efforts are going to naught.

Well, pity to the Arab Palestinians who must go on putting up with the useless leaders they have, who are going to continue to sacrifice them at the altar of Allah, in the name of Islam (which is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism, and insists of replacing it at any cost)


Israel and the Jews will continue to remain strong.
To Monte's chagrin .

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

 

[Roudy]

Hah, Kemal is a Muslim name, and the guy is a Turk. You lie as usual.

Kemal Haşim Karpat (born 1925) is a Turkish historian and former professor at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.[1] He is of Turkish origin and was born in Babadag, Romania. He received his LLB from the University of Istanbul, his MA from the University of Washington and his PhD from New York University. He has previous worked for the UN Economics and Social Council and taught at the University of Montana (though it was called Montana State University at the time) and New York University. He is currently working at Istanbul Şehir University.

He was born in Romania of Turkish descent, and he is Christian Orthodox. As I stated in my previous post. Why do you always confirm the accuracy of my posts. I really don't need the help.

He's a Turk with no ties to Romania other than he was born there.

No thanks, I'll take well known historians and researchers with details of the actual numbers according Ottoman and other official sources, than your baloney from an unknown Turk.

He lived in Romania until he went to university in Turkey and then in the U.S. where he had a career as a university professor.

The Ottoman census data presents the facts. You will, of course, believe (and spread) the propaganda that you lift from religious or Hasbara sites.

You lose, as usual.

Did the loser just call the Catholic Encyclopedia that quoted 1905 Ottoman Census numbers a "Hasbara site"? Ha ha ha!

I quoted a long list of historians and researchers that used official and govt. sources, you quoted ONE Muslim Turk. Epic fail again.

Third party reports are not authoritative. The actual census figures are. It's clear that you seek out and post propaganda. It's ridiculous trying to claim that that third party propagandists can possibly be more authoritative than the actual numbers on black and white. Go back into your hole.

You say that while quoting a third party source, moron. I quoted actual census numbers down to the minute details, and corroborated by Wesleyan University, Catholic Encyclopedia (which quoted the same Ottoman 1905 census numbers), and the following list of researchers, writers, and historians using govt. and official sources. If you have different Ottoman census 1905 numbers, put those up or shut up:

Bibliography

Abu Bakr, Amin. Mulkiyat al-Aradi fi Mutasarrifiyat al-Quds, 1858-1918. [Land Ownership in Mutasarrifiyat al-Quds]. Amman: Abdelhamid Shoman, 1996.

Andrews, Fannie Fern. The Holy Land under Mandate. Volumes I and II. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1931.

Al-'Arif, 'Arif. Al-Mufassal fi Tarikh al-Quds. Jerusalem: Maktabat Al-Andalus, 1992. [3rd edition, Arabic].

Arnon, Adar. “The Quarters of Jerusalem in the Ottoman Period”. Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 28, No. 1. January 1992, pp. 1-65.

Asali, K.J. “Jerusalem in History: Notes on the Origins of the City and its Tradition of Tolerance” in Arab Studies Quarterly, Vol. 16, No. 4, Fall 1994.

Asali, K.J. “Jerusalem under the Ottomans, 1516-1831 AD” in Jerusalem in History, Edited by K.J. Asali. Scorpion Publishing Ltd, 1989.

Asali, Kamil. Mawsim al-nabi musa fi filastin: tarikh al-mawsim wa al-maqam. [‘The Festival of the Prophet Moses in Palestine: The History of the Festival and the Shrine’]. Amman: al- Jami'a al-Urduniyya, 1990.

Al-'Awdat, Ya'qoub. Min 'Alam al-Fikr wa al-Adab fi Filistin. Jerusalem: Dar al-Isra', 1992. [3rd edition, Arabic].

Ben-Arieh, Yehoshua. Jerusalem in the 19th Century: Emergence of the New City. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1986.

Ben-Arieh,Yehoshua.Jerusaleminthe19thCentury:theOldCity. NewYork:St.Martin’sPress, 1986.

Al-Dabbagh, Mustafa. Biladuna Filistin.[‘Our Country Palestine’]. Volume 8, Part 2. Kufr Qara: Dar al-Shafaq, 1988. [2nd edition, Arabic].

Duff, Douglas. Palestine Picture. London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1936.
Fawcett, Millicent. Easter in Palestine, 1921-22. London: T. Fisher Unwin Ltd, n.d.
Gabbay, Rony. A Political Study of the Arab-Jewish Conflict: The Arab Refugee Problem (A Case

Study). Geneva: Librairie E. Droz, 1959.
Graham-Brown, Sarah. Education, Repression and Liberation: Palestinians. London: World

University Service, 1984.

Halabi, Osama. Baladiyat al-Quds al-'Arabiyya (‘Jerusalem Arab Municipality’). Jerusalem: PASSIA, 1993 [Arabic].

Himadeh, Sa'id, "Industry" in Economic Organization of Palesstine, edited by Sa'id Himadeh. Beirut American University in Beirut, 1938.

Hudson, Michael. “The Transformation of Jerusalem, 1917-1987 AD” in Jerusalem in History, Edited by K.J. Asali. New York: Olive Branch Press, 1990.

Kark, Ruth and Shimon Landman. “The Establishment of Muslim Neighbourhoods in Jerusalem, Outside the Old City, during the Late Ottoman Period” in Palestine Exploration Quarterly, July-December 1980, pp. 113-135.

Kark, Ruth. Jerusalem Neighbourhoods: Planning and By-laws, 1855-1930. Jerusalem: Mount Scopus Publications, 1991.

Khalidi, Tarif. “Palestinian Historiography: 1900-1948” in Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. X, No. 3 (Spring 1981), pp. 59-76.

Khalidi, Walid, editor. Before Their Diaspora: A Photographic History of the Palestinians, 1876- 1948. Washington: Institute for Palestine Studies, 1984.

Khouri, Yusef. Al-Sahafa al-'Arabiyya fi Filistin: 1876-1948. [‘The Arabic Press in Palestine: 1876- 1948’] Beirut: Institute for Palestine Studies, 1976 [Arabic].

Landman, Shim'on. Ahya' A'yan al-Quds Kharij Aswariha fi al-Qarn al-Tasi' 'Ashr. [‘The Elite Neighbourhoods in Jerusalem outside the Walls in the Nineteenth Century’]. Tel-Aviv: Dar al-Nashr al-'Arabi, 1984. [Translated to Arabic from the Hebrew 'Ha-Biniya ha-Aravit Mekhutz l-Homot Yerushalaim be-Meah ha-Tesha'-'Esre].

Lieber, Alfred E., “An Economic History of Jerusalem” in John Oesterreicher and Anne Sinai (eds.), Jerusalem. New York, 1974

Manna', 'Adel. “Eighteenth and Nineteenth Century Rebellions in Palestine” in Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol XXIV, No. 1, 1994.

McCarthy, Justin. The Population of Palestine: Population History and Statistics of the Late Ottoman Period and the Mandate. NY: Columbia University Press, 1990.

Roberts, Hugh. An Urban Profile of the Middle East. London: Croom Helm Ltd, 1979.
Romann, M. “The Economic Development of Jerusalem in Recent Times” in Urban Geography of Jerusalem: A Companion Volume to the Atlas of Jerusalem. New York: Walter de Gruyter,

1973.
Rose, John H. Melkon. Armenians of Jerusalem: Memories of Life in Palestine. New York: St.

Martin’s Press, 1993.
Sakakini, Hala. Jerusalem and I: A Personal Record. Amman, Jordan: Economic Press Co., 1990

[2nd edition].
Sakakini, Khalil. Kadha Ana Ya Dunya: Yawmiyyat. [‘Such Am I, World’] Jerusalem: al-Matba'a

al-Tujariyya, 1955 [Arabic].
Schmelz, U.O. “Notes on the Demography of Jews, Muslims and Christians in Jerusalem” in Middle

East Review, Spring-Summer 1981.
Schmelz, U.O. Modern Jerusalem’s Demographic Evolution. Jerusalem: The Institute of Contemporary

Jewry, 1987.
Scholch, Alexander. “Jerusalem in the 19th Century (1831-1917)” in Jerusalem in History. Edited by

K.J. Asali. New York: Olive Branch Press, 1990.
Shapiro, S. “Planning Jerusalem: The First Generation, 1917-1968” in Urban Geography of Jerusalem:

A Companion Volume to the Atlas of Jerusalem. New York: Walter de Gruyter, 1973. Tannous, Izzat. The Palestinians: A Detailed Documented Eyewitness History of Palestine Under

British Mandate. New York: I.G.T. Company, 1988.
Vester, Bertha Spafford. Our Jerusalem: An American Family in the Holy City, 1881-1949. London:

Evans Brothers Limited, 1951.
Yaghi, 'Abdelrahman. Hayat al-Adab al-Filastini al-Hadith: min awal al-nahda hata al-nakba.

[‘The Life of Modern Palestinian Literature: from the beginning of the renaissance to the crisis]. Beirut: al-Maktab al-Tujari, 1968 [Arabic].

 

[montelatici]

Pulling up a bunch of references that have nothing to do with the propaganda you posted must have been a lot of work, but it doesn't change the facts that are contained in the source data from the census which I can post again if you like. You lose as usual.

 

[montelatici]

I have provided the evidence from Jewish sources hundreds of times.

"Arabs of Jewish Descent in Israel
Up to 85% of Arabs in greater Israel stem from Jewish ancestors."

Arabs of Jewish Descent in Israel


Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin...."

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

Both can be true, as evidenced there were many more Jews that didn't convert, kept coming back, and formed vibrant communities as early as 1400's and even before. And today, majority of Israel's population actually consists of Jews from Arab countries who are direct descendants of the Jews that fled the first and second temple destructions. In other words, the REAL natives are back.

No, the natives are the people that always lived in Palestine. Their descendants are the Muslim and Christian Palestinians. The majority of the Jews in Israel descend from European Jews, either from Iberia, Central and Western Europe or Russia.

Ha ha ha. How exactly did Islam arrive in Israel if not by invasion, dufus? The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry doesn't somehow change Israel from being the Jewish holy land, or take away the Jewish people's religious, cultural, and ancestral ties to the land.

This part sounds confusing:

"The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry"


The Jews who came from Europe have Jewish ancestry. We do not know how many of those either converted to Judaism, or married someone who was indeed of European ancestry, Germans, Spaniards, etc. And it does not matter.

Whether they are Sepharadic or Ashkenazi, most have Land of Israel ancestry, and therefore have every right to return to their ancestral homeland.
Unlike the lies told by Jew haters that ALL Jews who came from Europe in the 19th-20th century are nothing but "converts" to Judaism.

The same goes to those who stayed on the land, or were living anywhere around Asia Minor. Misrahi.
Or those who were made to leave Spain or any other European country by expulsion or any other reason, and RETURNED to their ancient homeland or nearby during or after the Inquisition, or any of the pogroms which happened in Europe.

Most came from the Land of Israel, and it has been from the start that there were those who came into the tribes via marriage or conversion, just as it happens with any other tribe or nation.

Jew haters attempts at whipping out all Jews, whitewashing all of their history, and their numbers at any given time is the issue.

These Jew haters want to wipe out all indigenous Jews in order to give the Arabs, who are not the indigenous people of the land, the RIGHT to discriminate, delegitimize, attack and kill as many Jews as they are allowed to.

Monte is a prime example of a Jew hater who wishes to wipe out all Jews from the planet.
First their history.
Then their numbers.
Then anything else Monte can do to help destroy Israel..


Pity that his efforts are going to naught.

Well, pity to the Arab Palestinians who must go on putting up with the useless leaders they have, who are going to continue to sacrifice them at the altar of Allah, in the name of Islam (which is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism, and insists of replacing it at any cost)


Israel and the Jews will continue to remain strong.
To Monte's chagrin .

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

Sephardic Jews are from Europe. Sheesh.

 

[Roudy]

I'll take my long list of sources using official census numbers over your garbage any day, Achmed.

 

[Roudy]

Both can be true, as evidenced there were many more Jews that didn't convert, kept coming back, and formed vibrant communities as early as 1400's and even before. And today, majority of Israel's population actually consists of Jews from Arab countries who are direct descendants of the Jews that fled the first and second temple destructions. In other words, the REAL natives are back.

No, the natives are the people that always lived in Palestine. Their descendants are the Muslim and Christian Palestinians. The majority of the Jews in Israel descend from European Jews, either from Iberia, Central and Western Europe or Russia.

Ha ha ha. How exactly did Islam arrive in Israel if not by invasion, dufus? The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry doesn't somehow change Israel from being the Jewish holy land, or take away the Jewish people's religious, cultural, and ancestral ties to the land.

This part sounds confusing:

"The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry"


The Jews who came from Europe have Jewish ancestry. We do not know how many of those either converted to Judaism, or married someone who was indeed of European ancestry, Germans, Spaniards, etc. And it does not matter.

Whether they are Sepharadic or Ashkenazi, most have Land of Israel ancestry, and therefore have every right to return to their ancestral homeland.
Unlike the lies told by Jew haters that ALL Jews who came from Europe in the 19th-20th century are nothing but "converts" to Judaism.

The same goes to those who stayed on the land, or were living anywhere around Asia Minor. Misrahi.
Or those who were made to leave Spain or any other European country by expulsion or any other reason, and RETURNED to their ancient homeland or nearby during or after the Inquisition, or any of the pogroms which happened in Europe.

Most came from the Land of Israel, and it has been from the start that there were those who came into the tribes via marriage or conversion, just as it happens with any other tribe or nation.

Jew haters attempts at whipping out all Jews, whitewashing all of their history, and their numbers at any given time is the issue.

These Jew haters want to wipe out all indigenous Jews in order to give the Arabs, who are not the indigenous people of the land, the RIGHT to discriminate, delegitimize, attack and kill as many Jews as they are allowed to.

Monte is a prime example of a Jew hater who wishes to wipe out all Jews from the planet.
First their history.
Then their numbers.
Then anything else Monte can do to help destroy Israel..


Pity that his efforts are going to naught.

Well, pity to the Arab Palestinians who must go on putting up with the useless leaders they have, who are going to continue to sacrifice them at the altar of Allah, in the name of Islam (which is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism, and insists of replacing it at any cost)


Israel and the Jews will continue to remain strong.
To Monte's chagrin .

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

Sephardic Jews are from Europe. Sheesh.

They are classified as the same as Middle Eastern Jews now. And Sephardic Jews are from the Middle East to begin with. You're like a dog keep trying to bite it's own tail.

 

[montelatici]

I'll take my long list of sources using official census numbers over your garbage any day, Achmed.

And anyone else will take the data from the actual census.

 

[montelatici]

No, the natives are the people that always lived in Palestine. Their descendants are the Muslim and Christian Palestinians. The majority of the Jews in Israel descend from European Jews, either from Iberia, Central and Western Europe or Russia.

Ha ha ha. How exactly did Islam arrive in Israel if not by invasion, dufus? The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry doesn't somehow change Israel from being the Jewish holy land, or take away the Jewish people's religious, cultural, and ancestral ties to the land.

This part sounds confusing:

"The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry"


The Jews who came from Europe have Jewish ancestry. We do not know how many of those either converted to Judaism, or married someone who was indeed of European ancestry, Germans, Spaniards, etc. And it does not matter.

Whether they are Sepharadic or Ashkenazi, most have Land of Israel ancestry, and therefore have every right to return to their ancestral homeland.
Unlike the lies told by Jew haters that ALL Jews who came from Europe in the 19th-20th century are nothing but "converts" to Judaism.

The same goes to those who stayed on the land, or were living anywhere around Asia Minor. Misrahi.
Or those who were made to leave Spain or any other European country by expulsion or any other reason, and RETURNED to their ancient homeland or nearby during or after the Inquisition, or any of the pogroms which happened in Europe.

Most came from the Land of Israel, and it has been from the start that there were those who came into the tribes via marriage or conversion, just as it happens with any other tribe or nation.

Jew haters attempts at whipping out all Jews, whitewashing all of their history, and their numbers at any given time is the issue.

These Jew haters want to wipe out all indigenous Jews in order to give the Arabs, who are not the indigenous people of the land, the RIGHT to discriminate, delegitimize, attack and kill as many Jews as they are allowed to.

Monte is a prime example of a Jew hater who wishes to wipe out all Jews from the planet.
First their history.
Then their numbers.
Then anything else Monte can do to help destroy Israel..


Pity that his efforts are going to naught.

Well, pity to the Arab Palestinians who must go on putting up with the useless leaders they have, who are going to continue to sacrifice them at the altar of Allah, in the name of Islam (which is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism, and insists of replacing it at any cost)


Israel and the Jews will continue to remain strong.
To Monte's chagrin .

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

Sephardic Jews are from Europe. Sheesh.

They are classified as the same as Middle Eastern Jews now. And Sephardic Jews are from the Middle East to begin with. You're like a dog keep trying to bite it's own tail.

Sephardic Jews, by definition, are from Spain. You're like a pig that keeps rolling in manure. Give it up, I am always right.

 

[Roudy]

My numbers did show numbers that were based on 1905 Ottoman Census numbers, corroborated by several independent sources, including Muslims and Arabs. Like I said, if you have different 1905 Ottoman census numbers, put those up or shut up.

 

[Roudy]

Ha ha ha. How exactly did Islam arrive in Israel if not by invasion, dufus? The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry doesn't somehow change Israel from being the Jewish holy land, or take away the Jewish people's religious, cultural, and ancestral ties to the land.

This part sounds confusing:

"The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry"


The Jews who came from Europe have Jewish ancestry. We do not know how many of those either converted to Judaism, or married someone who was indeed of European ancestry, Germans, Spaniards, etc. And it does not matter.

Whether they are Sepharadic or Ashkenazi, most have Land of Israel ancestry, and therefore have every right to return to their ancestral homeland.
Unlike the lies told by Jew haters that ALL Jews who came from Europe in the 19th-20th century are nothing but "converts" to Judaism.

The same goes to those who stayed on the land, or were living anywhere around Asia Minor. Misrahi.
Or those who were made to leave Spain or any other European country by expulsion or any other reason, and RETURNED to their ancient homeland or nearby during or after the Inquisition, or any of the pogroms which happened in Europe.

Most came from the Land of Israel, and it has been from the start that there were those who came into the tribes via marriage or conversion, just as it happens with any other tribe or nation.

Jew haters attempts at whipping out all Jews, whitewashing all of their history, and their numbers at any given time is the issue.

These Jew haters want to wipe out all indigenous Jews in order to give the Arabs, who are not the indigenous people of the land, the RIGHT to discriminate, delegitimize, attack and kill as many Jews as they are allowed to.

Monte is a prime example of a Jew hater who wishes to wipe out all Jews from the planet.
First their history.
Then their numbers.
Then anything else Monte can do to help destroy Israel..


Pity that his efforts are going to naught.

Well, pity to the Arab Palestinians who must go on putting up with the useless leaders they have, who are going to continue to sacrifice them at the altar of Allah, in the name of Islam (which is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism, and insists of replacing it at any cost)


Israel and the Jews will continue to remain strong.
To Monte's chagrin .

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

Sephardic Jews are from Europe. Sheesh.

They are classified as the same as Middle Eastern Jews now. And Sephardic Jews are from the Middle East to begin with. You're like a dog keep trying to bite it's own tail.

Sephardic Jews, by definition, are from Spain. You're like a pig that keeps rolling in manure. Give it up, I am always right.

They are from the Spanish / Portuguese Empire, which included many north African countries. And how do you think they got there, retard? And after the inquisition and crusades, many of them migrated back to the "Levant" aka Israel in the 1400's and 1500's.

 

[Shusha]

The Jews who came from Europe have Jewish ancestry. We do not know how many of those either converted to Judaism, or married someone who was indeed of European ancestry, Germans, Spaniards, etc. And it does not matter.

This bears repeating.

Jewish people are Jewish people. It does not matter where in the Diaspora they found themselves at any particular point in time. Trying to divorce some Jewish people from the rest of the Jewish community is unacceptable and a blatant falsehood. Its based in a particular kind of hate. Jews are Jews. There are no synthetic Jews and "real" Jews.

 

[Roudy]

I'll take my long list of sources using official census numbers over your garbage any day, Achmed.

And anyone else will take the data from the actual census.

so that means you just pooped in your pants again, you don't have different Ottoman 1905 census numbers.

 

[montelatici]

My numbers did show numbers that were based on 1905 Ottoman Census numbers, corroborated by several independent sources, including Muslims and Arabs. Like I said, if you have different 1905 Ottoman census numbers, put those up or shut up.

You just have to go to page 166/167 of the census.

Jews numbered 3,980 males and 3,903 females

OTTOMAN POPULATION, 1830-1914: Demographic and Social Characteristics, By KEMAL H. KARPAT

Still a handful in 1905. Of course there would be little growth as it was against the law for Jews to settle in Palestine.

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that:

[Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire."

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

 

[montelatici]

This part sounds confusing:

"The fact that less than half of Israel's Jews today are of European ancestry"


The Jews who came from Europe have Jewish ancestry. We do not know how many of those either converted to Judaism, or married someone who was indeed of European ancestry, Germans, Spaniards, etc. And it does not matter.

Whether they are Sepharadic or Ashkenazi, most have Land of Israel ancestry, and therefore have every right to return to their ancestral homeland.
Unlike the lies told by Jew haters that ALL Jews who came from Europe in the 19th-20th century are nothing but "converts" to Judaism.

The same goes to those who stayed on the land, or were living anywhere around Asia Minor. Misrahi.
Or those who were made to leave Spain or any other European country by expulsion or any other reason, and RETURNED to their ancient homeland or nearby during or after the Inquisition, or any of the pogroms which happened in Europe.

Most came from the Land of Israel, and it has been from the start that there were those who came into the tribes via marriage or conversion, just as it happens with any other tribe or nation.

Jew haters attempts at whipping out all Jews, whitewashing all of their history, and their numbers at any given time is the issue.

These Jew haters want to wipe out all indigenous Jews in order to give the Arabs, who are not the indigenous people of the land, the RIGHT to discriminate, delegitimize, attack and kill as many Jews as they are allowed to.

Monte is a prime example of a Jew hater who wishes to wipe out all Jews from the planet.
First their history.
Then their numbers.
Then anything else Monte can do to help destroy Israel..


Pity that his efforts are going to naught.

Well, pity to the Arab Palestinians who must go on putting up with the useless leaders they have, who are going to continue to sacrifice them at the altar of Allah, in the name of Islam (which is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism, and insists of replacing it at any cost)


Israel and the Jews will continue to remain strong.
To Monte's chagrin .

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

Sephardic Jews are from Europe. Sheesh.

They are classified as the same as Middle Eastern Jews now. And Sephardic Jews are from the Middle East to begin with. You're like a dog keep trying to bite it's own tail.

Sephardic Jews, by definition, are from Spain. You're like a pig that keeps rolling in manure. Give it up, I am always right.

They are from the Spanish / Portuguese Empire, which included many north African countries. And how do you think they got there, retard? And after the inquisition and crusades, many of them migrated back to the "Levant" aka Israel in the 1400's and 1500's.

Repeat after me. Sephardic Jews are from the Iberian peninsula. As I stated earlier. By the way. North Africa is also not in the Middle East.

 

[Roudy]

My numbers did show numbers that were based on 1905 Ottoman Census numbers, corroborated by several independent sources, including Muslims and Arabs. Like I said, if you have different 1905 Ottoman census numbers, put those up or shut up.

You just have to go to page 166/167 of the census.

Jews numbered 3,980 males and 3,903 females

OTTOMAN POPULATION, 1830-1914: Demographic and Social Characteristics, By KEMAL H. KARPAT

Still a handful in 1905. Of course there would be little growth as it was against the law for Jews to settle in Palestine.

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that:

[Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire."

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

Kemal the Muslim propagandist crackpot doesn't even have Ottoman census numbers for 1905 specifically. So again, you have nothing but repetitive bullshit.

 

[Roudy]

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

Sephardic Jews are from Europe. Sheesh.

They are classified as the same as Middle Eastern Jews now. And Sephardic Jews are from the Middle East to begin with. You're like a dog keep trying to bite it's own tail.

Sephardic Jews, by definition, are from Spain. You're like a pig that keeps rolling in manure. Give it up, I am always right.

They are from the Spanish / Portuguese Empire, which included many north African countries. And how do you think they got there, retard? And after the inquisition and crusades, many of them migrated back to the "Levant" aka Israel in the 1400's and 1500's.

Repeat after me. Sephardic Jews are from the Iberian peninsula. As I stated earlier. By the way. North Africa is also not in the Middle East.

Did I say it was? Sephardic Jews technically are Jews, like Mizrahis, who's descendants fled the destruction of first and second temples in ancient Israel. Nowadays however, all middle eastern Jews such as those from Iraq, Morocco, Iran, Egypt, Syria, etc. call themselves Sephardic. And those are the Jews that comprise a majority of Israel's population now. It's amazing how ignorant you are. LOL

 

[Sixties Fan]

You are correct. What I meant was that majority of Israel's Jews today are Middle Eastern / Sephardic Jews, or descendants of.

Sephardic Jews are from Europe. Sheesh.

They are classified as the same as Middle Eastern Jews now. And Sephardic Jews are from the Middle East to begin with. You're like a dog keep trying to bite it's own tail.

Sephardic Jews, by definition, are from Spain. You're like a pig that keeps rolling in manure. Give it up, I am always right.

They are from the Spanish / Portuguese Empire, which included many north African countries. And how do you think they got there, retard? And after the inquisition and crusades, many of them migrated back to the "Levant" aka Israel in the 1400's and 1500's.

Repeat after me. Sephardic Jews are from the Iberian peninsula. As I stated earlier. By the way. North Africa is also not in the Middle East.

Sepharadic Jews are those who fled or were expelled from Portugal or Spain and went to the Americas, other parts of Europe, North Africa or Asia Minor, aka, Egypt, Mesopotoamia, Syria, Iran, etc.

Therefore, all of those who can trace their ancestors of 500 years ago as having been expelled from Portugal or Spain are Sepharadic. It does not matter where they live now.

And Yes, most Jews in Israel today have Sepharadic background as the Muslims made the big mistake of expelling most of them from their new countries in order to attempt to destroy Israel financially.

(Oooops, another Arab fail )


"Middle East" is a new terminology adopted this past century to denote the areas of Asia Minor and North Africa which were conquered and are mainly dominated by Muslim majority governments.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Very technically, Sephardic Jews come from Spain and Portugal (Sephard means Spain), and Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews come from the Middle East and North Africa. But the common practice today is to call all Jews from the Middle East and North Africa Sephardic.

Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe, primarily Germany (Ashkenaz is an ancient name for Germany). Yiddish is basically German written in Hebrew letters.

 

[montelatici]

My numbers did show numbers that were based on 1905 Ottoman Census numbers, corroborated by several independent sources, including Muslims and Arabs. Like I said, if you have different 1905 Ottoman census numbers, put those up or shut up.

You just have to go to page 166/167 of the census.

Jews numbered 3,980 males and 3,903 females

OTTOMAN POPULATION, 1830-1914: Demographic and Social Characteristics, By KEMAL H. KARPAT

Still a handful in 1905. Of course there would be little growth as it was against the law for Jews to settle in Palestine.

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that:

[Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire."

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

Kemal the Muslim propagandist crackpot doesn't even have Ottoman census numbers for 1905 specifically. So again, you have nothing but repetitive bullshit.

The results of the 1905 census are on pages 166 and 167. Why do you insist on lying? You lost, give it up.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Very technically, Sephardic Jews come from Spain and Portugal (Sephard means Spain), and Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews come from the Middle East and North Africa. But the common practice today is to call all Jews from the Middle East and North Africa Sephardic.

Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe, primarily Germany (Ashkenaz is an ancient name for Germany). Yiddish is basically German written in Hebrew letters.

ForeverYoung,

It is my understanding that Mizrahi Jews are the ones who never left
the Land of Israel or surrounding Asia Minor areas, like Mesopotamia, etc, like the Jews of Babylon.

Those who come from North Africa may be considered Ashkenazi or Sephardic, depending on which part of Europe they came from.

Here is a link defining who is who:

Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews | My Jewish Learning