Who Has Recognized The Mistake and Omission in John 3:16?

[AmericanFirst]

Only 144000 will go to Heaven. The rest will be restored to earthly bodies of perfection and live on a restored earth. READ the bible.

Jehovah's' Witness?

Read the bible. It clearly states it in Revelations. It is not rocket science. And No I am a Mormon at the moment.

Another burst bubble, no one has ascended to Heaven yet, ONLY Jesus has done that. Also clearly stated in John.

Being a mormon is as bad as being a jehovas witness, both believe false theology. And what does "at the moment" mean? Make up your mind.

 

[JJJ]

Re Heaven, the new earth and 144,000 ascending to the Kingdom, read the Beatitudes in Matt. 5. Notice how some people inherit a new earth, and certain others, like those persecuted in the name of righteousness, make it to the Kingdom. I take this distinction, together with the Revelation prophesy of 144,000, to mean that 144,000 people will enter the Kingdom that rules over a new earth, where the rest who make the cut will reside. Because the Kingdom will be comprised of a Godly King and Judges, the new earth will be, as Belinda Carlisle would say, Heaven on Earth. Has anyone other than me divined that explanation for the 144,000 ascending? JJJ

 

[hortysir]

Re Heaven, the new earth and 144,000 ascending to the Kingdom, read the Beatitudes in Matt. 5. Notice how some people inherit a new earth, and certain others, like those persecuted in the name of righteousness, make it to the Kingdom. I take this distinction, together with the Revelation prophesy of 144,000, to mean that 144,000 people will enter the Kingdom that rules over a new earth, where the rest who make the cut will reside. Because the Kingdom will be comprised of a Godly King and Judges, the new earth will be, as Belinda Carlisle would say, Heaven on Earth. Has anyone other than me divined that explanation for the 144,000 ascending? JJJ

What is there to link Matthew and John's revelations?

Can you cite verses?

 

[Avatar4321]

Let me understand this again

1)Having faith in people you do not know make sense

2)Faith in the claims of Jesus and his disciple help ensue eternal life

3)Eternal life is not immortality, but it is good because of what?

When I think about these arguments--never mind what the NT says---and you wonder why I think Christians are a bit nutty.

Try this with ponzi schemes and confidence men, only then will you learn my viewpoint!

Skepticism is healthy, folks! Good and Healthy!

So because you dont understand the discussion, those who do are nutty?

The Scriptures are clear that Eternal Life is not Immortality. It's something different. Read John 17. Heck, read the entire Gospel of John. It's the best imho.

 

[Dr Grump]

if you understand what eternal life is, which is not immortality, then you would realize that Eternal life can only be good.

You religious wingnuts really crack me up.

Eternal
e·ter·nal
   /ɪˈtɜrnl/ Show Spelled[ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
   /ˌɪmɔrˈtælɪti/ Show Spelled[im-awr-tal-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1.
immortal condition or quality; unending life.
2.
enduring fame.


You guys just decide on meanings of words to suit your warped sense of religion. What next? When god created the world in six days he was speaking metaphorically, right? Not literally?

 

[Avatar4321]

if you understand what eternal life is, which is not immortality, then you would realize that Eternal life can only be good.

You religious wingnuts really crack me up.

Eternal
e·ter·nal
   /ɪˈtɜrnl/ Show Spelled[ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
   /ˌɪmɔrˈtælɪti/ Show Spelled[im-awr-tal-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1.
immortal condition or quality; unending life.
2.
enduring fame.


You guys just decide on meanings of words to suit your warped sense of religion. What next? When god created the world in six days he was speaking metaphorically, right? Not literally?

Again, if you are unwilling to read and study how the scriptures define terms, you will never gain any sort of understanding of what Eternal life is.

This is why you will be ignorant of the mysteries of God. You dont bother studying or asking.

 

[Dr Grump]

if you understand what eternal life is, which is not immortality, then you would realize that Eternal life can only be good.

You religious wingnuts really crack me up.

Eternal
e·ter·nal
   /ɪˈtɜrnl/ Show Spelled[ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
   /ˌɪmɔrˈtælɪti/ Show Spelled[im-awr-tal-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1.
immortal condition or quality; unending life.
2.
enduring fame.


You guys just decide on meanings of words to suit your warped sense of religion. What next? When god created the world in six days he was speaking metaphorically, right? Not literally?

Again, if you are unwilling to read and study how the scriptures define terms, you will never gain any sort of understanding of what Eternal life is.

This is why you will be ignorant of the mysteries of God. You dont bother studying or asking.

There are no mysteries to a god. Only if you believe

Scriptures don't get to define words - dictionaries do. If being immortal and eternal life do not mean the same thing in the bible, then it is the bible that has it wrong and needs to either find the right word or invent a new one. Because whether you like it or not, you can being immortal and having eternal life do mean the same thing...

 

[Newby]

James 2:14-26
New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[AmericanFirst]

if you understand what eternal life is, which is not immortality, then you would realize that Eternal life can only be good.

You religious wingnuts really crack me up.

Eternal
e·ter·nal
   /ɪˈtɜrnl/ Show Spelled[ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
   /ˌɪmɔrˈtælɪti/ Show Spelled[im-awr-tal-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1.
immortal condition or quality; unending life.
2.
enduring fame.


You guys just decide on meanings of words to suit your warped sense of religion. What next? When god created the world in six days he was speaking metaphorically, right? Not literally?

We just happen to know the truth whereas deniers are always believing in lies to support their unbelief. We happen to actually read and understand the Bible. Where unbelievers try to, unsuccesfullly, tear down the Bible.

 

[AmericanFirst]

You religious wingnuts really crack me up.

Eternal
e·ter·nal
   /ɪˈtɜrnl/ Show Spelled[ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
   /ˌɪmɔrˈtælɪti/ Show Spelled[im-awr-tal-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1.
immortal condition or quality; unending life.
2.
enduring fame.


You guys just decide on meanings of words to suit your warped sense of religion. What next? When god created the world in six days he was speaking metaphorically, right? Not literally?

Again, if you are unwilling to read and study how the scriptures define terms, you will never gain any sort of understanding of what Eternal life is.

This is why you will be ignorant of the mysteries of God. You dont bother studying or asking.

There are no mysteries to a god. Only if you believe

Scriptures don't get to define words - dictionaries do. If being immortal and eternal life do not mean the same thing in the bible, then it is the bible that has it wrong and needs to either find the right word or invent a new one. Because whether you like it or not, you can being immortal and having eternal life do mean the same thing...

If you want us to believe your lies you ought to learn how to write properly. Immortal and eternal life do not mean the same thing. The Bible has nothing wrong, only man.

 

[Alter2Ego]

We all know that verse, and " ...that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." Did anyone but me ever notice John left something out? First, did you notice that John never promises the eternal life will be a good one, as those cast in the lake of fire for 1000 years will learn? Don't forget God's power to resurrect and grant eternal life can be used both ways. Second, believing in Christ alone is not enough. The Devil believes in Christ, but I can assure you does not have a good time ahead. I think this omission explains why John went on to write 1 John, which in Chapter 5 speaks repeatedly of "sins leading to death" that not even accepting Christ can save you from. I had a debate with a Godly mentor one day on what type(s) of sin this could involve, and came up with only one. It's not murder, since we know a genuinely repentent murder can be redeemed. The one and only sin this serious that I can see is rejecting Christ and his message. Reconciling all this, I concluded that to truly believe in Christ requires following his direction, words, and commandments, which are pretty clearly set out, and a lot easier to follow than the OT law of the S&P's. If one does not do so he/she either doesn't believe in Christ or has walked away from and rejected his message, in either case commiting the preeminent sin leading to death.

I have more thoughts like this and Biblical analysis and reconcilliation in a book I've posted at deliver-us-from-evil dot com. I would enjoy debating or discussing the issue with anyone who is interested. I'll start with the question of whether you ever viewed John 3:16, and John's promise of eternal life, as being the double-edged sword it really is? JJJ

ALTER2EGO -to- JJJ:
You are using the King James Version (or a Bible version based off the KJV), which is notorious for translation blunders. Merely believing in Jesus is clearly not enough, since as you have noted, even Satan and the demons believe in the existence of Jesus. The thought behind that verse is that one must EXERCISE FAITH in Jesus--which involves action.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)


Notice also that the scripture at John 3:16 opens only two opportunities. I will quote it again and bold the two opportunities.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)


Notice that it's either (1) being destroyed or (2) living forever. Nowhere in that verse does it say anything about everlasting hellfire.

In the Bible, the "Lake of Fire" is symbolic language meaning permanent death or permanent destruction. In fact, I recently started a thread here on this forum in which I discuss the topic of eternal fire. My thread is entitled: "Is Hellfire A Bible Teaching?" and can be found at the following weblink.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...is-hellfire-a-bible-teaching.html#post5193862

 

[Alter2Ego]

You religious wingnuts really crack me up.

Eternal
e·ter·nal
   /ɪˈtɜrnl/ Show Spelled[ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
   /ˌɪmɔrˈtælɪti/ Show Spelled[im-awr-tal-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1.
immortal condition or quality; unending life.
2.
enduring fame.


You guys just decide on meanings of words to suit your warped sense of religion. What next? When god created the world in six days he was speaking metaphorically, right? Not literally?

Again, if you are unwilling to read and study how the scriptures define terms, you will never gain any sort of understanding of what Eternal life is.

This is why you will be ignorant of the mysteries of God. You dont bother studying or asking.

There are no mysteries to a god. Only if you believe

Scriptures don't get to define words - dictionaries do. If being immortal and eternal life do not mean the same thing in the bible, then it is the bible that has it wrong and needs to either find the right word or invent a new one. Because whether you like it or not, you can being immortal and having eternal life do mean the same thing...

ALTER2EGO -to- DR GRUMP:

Your definition of "eternal" is similar to the meaning of "immortal," but they are slightly different. An eternal person can never die. A person who is immortal could have died before becoming immortal. For instance, Jehovah is eternal--he can never die. Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is not eternal because he died. However, he is now immortal, meaning he will never die again.

MEANING OF IMMORTAL:
"Immortal describes something or someone that can never die."
http://www.yourdictionary.com/immortal?

 

[hortysir]

[
ALTER2EGO -to- JJJ:
You are using the King James Version (or a Bible version based off the KJV), which is notorious for translation blunders. Merely believing in Jesus is clearly not enough, since as you have noted, even Satan and the demons believe in the existence of Jesus. The thought behind that verse is that one must EXERCISE FAITH in Jesus--which involves action.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)


Notice also that the scripture at John 3:16 opens only two opportunities. I will quote it again and bold the two opportunities.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)


Notice that it's either (1) being destroyed or (2) living forever. Nowhere in that verse does it say anything about everlasting hellfire.

In the Bible, the "Lake of Fire" is symbolic language meaning permanent death or permanent destruction. In fact, I recently started a thread here on this forum in which I discuss the topic of eternal fire. My thread is entitled: "Is Hellfire A Bible Teaching?" and can be found at the following weblink.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...is-hellfire-a-bible-teaching.html#post5193862

And you are down-playing a translation of a translation while citing a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation.

How watered-down do you like your Scripture, anyway????

 

[AmericanFirst]

[
ALTER2EGO -to- JJJ:
You are using the King James Version (or a Bible version based off the KJV), which is notorious for translation blunders. Merely believing in Jesus is clearly not enough, since as you have noted, even Satan and the demons believe in the existence of Jesus. The thought behind that verse is that one must EXERCISE FAITH in Jesus--which involves action.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)


Notice also that the scripture at John 3:16 opens only two opportunities. I will quote it again and bold the two opportunities.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)


Notice that it's either (1) being destroyed or (2) living forever. Nowhere in that verse does it say anything about everlasting hellfire.

In the Bible, the "Lake of Fire" is symbolic language meaning permanent death or permanent destruction. In fact, I recently started a thread here on this forum in which I discuss the topic of eternal fire. My thread is entitled: "Is Hellfire A Bible Teaching?" and can be found at the following weblink.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...is-hellfire-a-bible-teaching.html#post5193862

And you are down-playing a translation of a translation while citing a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation.

How watered-down do you like your Scripture, anyway????

He is typical of someone who rewrites scripture to make him feel good about his shortcomings. Of course believing him would be a joke in itself.

 

[rdean]

Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
- John 5:37

Then how do you know he's "there"?

 

[Sunshine]

We all know that verse, and " ...that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." Did anyone but me ever notice John left something out? First, did you notice that John never promises the eternal life will be a good one, as those cast in the lake of fire for 1000 years will learn? Don't forget God's power to resurrect and grant eternal life can be used both ways. Second, believing in Christ alone is not enough. The Devil believes in Christ, but I can assure you does not have a good time ahead. I think this omission explains why John went on to write 1 John, which in Chapter 5 speaks repeatedly of "sins leading to death" that not even accepting Christ can save you from. I had a debate with a Godly mentor one day on what type(s) of sin this could involve, and came up with only one. It's not murder, since we know a genuinely repentent murder can be redeemed. The one and only sin this serious that I can see is rejecting Christ and his message. Reconciling all this, I concluded that to truly believe in Christ requires following his direction, words, and commandments, which are pretty clearly set out, and a lot easier to follow than the OT law of the S&P's. If one does not do so he/she either doesn't believe in Christ or has walked away from and rejected his message, in either case commiting the preeminent sin leading to death.

I have more thoughts like this and Biblical analysis and reconcilliation in a book I've posted at deliver-us-from-evil dot com. I would enjoy debating or discussing the issue with anyone who is interested. I'll start with the question of whether you ever viewed John 3:16, and John's promise of eternal life, as being the double-edged sword it really is? JJJ

I think you are creating an error where none exists. The other choice is eternal 'death' not eternal life.

But, IMO, there is a good discussion as to whether God would use substitutionary atonement. John 3:16 was not written by Jesus. And it does not appear from Jesus' words that the Father actually planned to use him as a sacrificial lamb - substitutionary atonement. Jesus asks asks on the cross why the Father had 'forsaken' him. Not something that smacks of a plan by the Father.

No one seems to want to believe that Jesus' mission was to save humanity through His life rather than His death, but got in trouble with the Romans.

The analogy to the accepted scenario is that I build (create) a boat; I like my created boat so much that I kill my son to save my boat. How horrible.

I admire the Jefferson Bible. It consists of ONLY the words of Jesus Christ. Not all the petty commentators that followed after!

 

[MaryL]

I lost my faith, but I still try to be a good person. I understand Mother Teresa herself had these "black periods' were she herself doubted there was a god...I want to believe, but it isn’t happening. Do people like me go to hell when we die?

 

[Sunshine]

I lost my faith, but I still try to be a good person. I understand Mother Teresa herself had these "black periods' were she herself doubted there was a god...I want to believe, but it isn’t happening. Do people like me go to hell when we die?

Mother Theresa saw the same kinds of things I see every day. It's tough.

When I read about mothers and fathers letting their children die because they love their drugs so much, or because they are so busy playing farmville, I think about a god who let his Son die because he loved his creation so much he would give his son for it.. If we are made in HIS image, then there are definitely plenty of people on the earth who love things better than they love their own children. Someone once said that maybe the powers which rule the universe are so obnoxious we couldn't stand them if we met them face to face. Maybe they are.