Who does or does not support Israel?

[P F Tinmore]

I have already mentioned the other reasons while the arab world hates the USA, and support for Israel is at the bottom of the list. that is why i think that even had the US discontinued support of Israel, it would not help one bit.

Besides, between 2000 and 2008 the US has given the palestinians more than $2.5 bn. without it making even an inkling of the positive affect on palestinian sentiment toward the US. And, even if it had, it would not change the feeling of the rest of the arab world towards the US.

The money the US gives to "Palestine" only hurts the Palestinians and is given to protect Israel.

Huh?

You're confusing ridiculous blather for a meaningful thought.

Virtually all the money that goes to "Palestine" goes to "security forces" nominally under the control of Abbas but not under the control of the Palestinian government. The control is under US General Keith Dayton and is coordinated with the Israeli Military. It is their job to protect Israel.

 

[ekrem]

Another reason i believe israel is a stabiliyzing force

This is not an issue about believe.
It is about available options of actions and course of action.
So, simple question:
Which action by Israel has served stability?
This is very cynical to describe the actions of Israel as stabilizing.

I think we have tremendous ignorance of the Islamic Faith. I have spent many years in Asia. Islam is the scourge of that continent. They had one and one half thousand year of history of cutting people's heads off, and destroying everything and anything that they can destroy in the name of Allah.

Out of Asia, especially Central Asia, came the world's best breed of people having introduced the business of - as you say - "cutting people's head off".
Independent from any kind of religion.
Applying an analysis of this "business" to people with Islamic faith within historical context, you will see, that not every tribe/nation of Islamic faith did particularily well in this business. This honour was reserved only to few.
A varying degree of Violence within Islamic history can only be tied to varying representatives of Islam that dominated each epoch.

Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel, it won't matter.

You know it yourself that this is an illusional feel-good statement.
Was it not you, that called user Kalam a sand-nigga? If USA drops Israel you will - if there is a concept of sand nigga classification in the applying brain - come out to be just an average Middle-Eastern sand-nigga that has to make a decision either to upkeep its current socio-economic standard or its level of militarization. Both at same time is not within your capability, it is currently sponsored for you.

Also there are many US lackeys around of Israel, and USA itself serves as as a fragmentation force for any kind of note-worthy anti-Israelian block-building within these lackeys.
Preferential relations with USA is for Israel a rule-setter for Israel's position within the region.

 

[ekrem]

The Marshall Plan for Europe had to current values a size of 120 Billion $.
Total Europe.
Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - The Marshall Plan

According to USA embassy in Italy, US aid to Israel has reached as of 2004 a size of 93 Billion $.
http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/IB85066.pdf

How much universities, how much Kilometers of roads do you build with that money?
No money, no honey. Even I learned that when dating materialistic teenage girls in the youth.

 

[mdn2000]

Um...thanks for dropping by.....but we're not debating whether or not Islam is an "Evil Religion."

Maybe you could begin a thread in which you could share a relevent thought?

Samson, that is rich coming from you, Samson is far from on topic even 50% of the time, further you have enough posts to know threads hardly stay on topic, like when you wanted to know about my private parts you have asked about in this thread and others.

Samson's way of belitteling and flameing members.

George Michael wants to know how much longer will you be on the rag?

Take it out of your mouth and tell him yourself

 

[Neubarth]

Interesting point made here: If the US supported Israel as much as....Sweden, for example, then why would Arabs/Muslims find other reasons for "Jihad" more with the USA than Sweden?

I think we have tremendous ignorance of the Islamic Faith. I have spent many years in Asia. Islam is the scourge of that continent. They had one and one half thousand year of history of cutting people's heads off, and destroying everything and anything that they can destroy in the name of Allah. In Iran during that millenia and a half, they are estimated to have killed between nine and ten million people of the Jewish faith. That was the greatest Holocaust in world history. The German killing of only six million Jews was small by comparison. Ahmedinejad makes fun of the paltry German holocaust because it does not compare to what the Iranians did. Remember the Islamic faith demands that they kill Jews. In the so called Islamic last days their prophets claim that even the trees will cry out telling the Islamic warriors where the Jews are hiding so their throats can be slit. What a totally evil religion Islam has shown itself to be. All you have to do is look at history to know the truth.

Um...thanks for dropping by.....but we're not debating whether or not Islam is an "Evil Religion."

Maybe you could begin a thread in which you could share a relevent thought?

You obviously are very low IQ, sampson. The initial theme was US support of Israel. The question then arrises as to why the American people who have an opinion so openly support Israel. I and everybody I know fully support Israel because we know how totally evil Islam is. It is easily the ugliest gutter religion in world history always calling for the death of anybody who is not submissive to Ba'Allah, the satanic god who constantly requires human blood sacrifice.

 

[Winston Smith]

You think the USA would be "tolerated" less is they took the aid that currently goes to Israel and sent it to Gaza?

Why?

I have already mentioned the other reasons while the arab world hates the USA, and support for Israel is at the bottom of the list. that is why i think that even had the US discontinued support of Israel, it would not help one bit.

Besides, between 2000 and 2008 the US has given the palestinians more than $2.5 bn. without it making even an inkling of the positive affect on palestinian sentiment toward the US. And, even if it had, it would not change the feeling of the rest of the arab world towards the US.

I'd really like you to substantiate at least a couple of your broad generalizations:

1. The Arab World Hates the USA
2. The Last reason The Arab World Hates the USA is because the USA supports Israel
3. Palestinians have received $2.5B from the USA
4. $2.5B has not changed Palestinian sentiment toward the USA
5. $2.5B would not change Arab sentiment toward the USA outside Palestine

Much of this could easily be dismissed as Israeli propaganda unless you have some unbias source to support these claims.

1. As for the hate the arab world has for the US. I believe the celebrations across the arab and muslim world after 9/11 is proof enough. however, to show you that this hatred is still there, here are a few examples, which also answer point 5:

MEMRI: Faraeen TV: US Second Civilization to Be Founded on Blood
MEMRI: Egyptian Expert on African Affairs Ibrahim Nasr Al-Din: US Sponsors Somali Piracy
MEMRI: Hamas Leader Khaled Mash'al: Arab and Muslim Leaders Should Use Iraqi and Afghan Resistance to Intimidate the U.S.
Lebanese Journalist Hassan Hamada: US Artificially Caused Haiti Earthquake

2. The grivences of the arab world against the US were best describe by Abdallah Azam during the 1980s, and were recapped the a book called "From Kabul To Jerusalem" published by Dr. Asaf Maliach and Dr. Shaul Shay. A Thourugh read in "Studies in Conflict & Terrorism" Magazine can also help.

3. The data concerning US financial support if the PA was taken from the US Census Bureau

 

[Winston Smith]

Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel, it won't matter. It didn't help the Soviets, who were outright against Israel. Doesn't help Europe nowadays who don't support Israel any differently then they support any other country in the Middle East.

If the US cut off Israel, we would initially see praise in the Arab and Muslim world, but it would soon be forgotten and they would find other reasons for jihad!

Interesting point made here: If the US supported Israel as much as....Sweden, for example, then why would Arabs/Muslims find other reasons for "Jihad" more with the USA than Sweden?

You mean if the US was completely anti-israel, as sweden is? yes i guess palestinians would like them more. didn't help Denmark in 2007, though, did it?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I have already mentioned the other reasons while the arab world hates the USA, and support for Israel is at the bottom of the list. that is why i think that even had the US discontinued support of Israel, it would not help one bit.

Besides, between 2000 and 2008 the US has given the palestinians more than $2.5 bn. without it making even an inkling of the positive affect on palestinian sentiment toward the US. And, even if it had, it would not change the feeling of the rest of the arab world towards the US.

I'd really like you to substantiate at least a couple of your broad generalizations:

1. The Arab World Hates the USA
2. The Last reason The Arab World Hates the USA is because the USA supports Israel
3. Palestinians have received $2.5B from the USA
4. $2.5B has not changed Palestinian sentiment toward the USA
5. $2.5B would not change Arab sentiment toward the USA outside Palestine

Much of this could easily be dismissed as Israeli propaganda unless you have some unbias source to support these claims.

1. As for the hate the arab world has for the US. I believe the celebrations across the arab and muslim world after 9/11 is proof enough. however, to show you that this hatred is still there, here are a few examples, which also answer point 5:

MEMRI: Faraeen TV: US Second Civilization to Be Founded on Blood
MEMRI: Egyptian Expert on African Affairs Ibrahim Nasr Al-Din: US Sponsors Somali Piracy
MEMRI: Hamas Leader Khaled Mash'al: Arab and Muslim Leaders Should Use Iraqi and Afghan Resistance to Intimidate the U.S.
Lebanese Journalist Hassan Hamada: US Artificially Caused Haiti Earthquake

2. The grivences of the arab world against the US were best describe by Abdallah Azam during the 1980s, and were recapped the a book called "From Kabul To Jerusalem" published by Dr. Asaf Maliach and Dr. Shaul Shay. A Thourugh read in "Studies in Conflict & Terrorism" Magazine can also help.

3. The data concerning US financial support if the PA was taken from the US Census Bureau

MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine.

 

[Winston Smith]

Another reason i believe israel is a stabiliyzing force

This is not an issue about believe.
It is about available options of actions and course of action.
So, simple question:
Which action by Israel has served stability?
This is very cynical to describe the actions of Israel as stabilizing.

A. you can switch the words "i believe" with "in my opinion". and international politics is all about opinion. not to mention USMB.

B. two actions Israel has done that have served the stability of the region: peace with Egypt and Jordan. When Israel has a partner for peace, it has no qualms about signing a peace accord.

 

[Winston Smith]

The Marshall Plan for Europe had to current values a size of 120 Billion $.
Total Europe.
Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - The Marshall Plan

According to USA embassy in Italy, US aid to Israel has reached as of 2004 a size of 93 Billion $.
http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/IB85066.pdf

How much universities, how much Kilometers of roads do you build with that money?
No money, no honey. Even I learned that when dating materialistic teenage girls in the youth.

First of all, The marshall plan funds were given over a period of three years. while the $93 bn you mention were given spread out for over 60 years. the comparison is not in place. Second of all, During the same time many other counties have recieved billions of dollars in foreign aid, including Egypt, which recieved $63bn.

 

[Winston Smith]

I'd really like you to substantiate at least a couple of your broad generalizations:

1. The Arab World Hates the USA
2. The Last reason The Arab World Hates the USA is because the USA supports Israel
3. Palestinians have received $2.5B from the USA
4. $2.5B has not changed Palestinian sentiment toward the USA
5. $2.5B would not change Arab sentiment toward the USA outside Palestine

Much of this could easily be dismissed as Israeli propaganda unless you have some unbias source to support these claims.

1. As for the hate the arab world has for the US. I believe the celebrations across the arab and muslim world after 9/11 is proof enough. however, to show you that this hatred is still there, here are a few examples, which also answer point 5:

MEMRI: Faraeen TV: US Second Civilization to Be Founded on Blood
MEMRI: Egyptian Expert on African Affairs Ibrahim Nasr Al-Din: US Sponsors Somali Piracy
MEMRI: Hamas Leader Khaled Mash'al: Arab and Muslim Leaders Should Use Iraqi and Afghan Resistance to Intimidate the U.S.
Lebanese Journalist Hassan Hamada: US Artificially Caused Haiti Earthquake

2. The grivences of the arab world against the US were best describe by Abdallah Azam during the 1980s, and were recapped the a book called "From Kabul To Jerusalem" published by Dr. Asaf Maliach and Dr. Shaul Shay. A Thourugh read in "Studies in Conflict & Terrorism" Magazine can also help.

3. The data concerning US financial support if the PA was taken from the US Census Bureau

MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine.

Didn't expect anything else from you.

when pushkin said "Better the illusions that exalt us than 10000 truths" he was thinking about people like you.

 

[Samson]

I'd really like you to substantiate at least a couple of your broad generalizations:

1. The Arab World Hates the USA
2. The Last reason The Arab World Hates the USA is because the USA supports Israel
3. Palestinians have received $2.5B from the USA
4. $2.5B has not changed Palestinian sentiment toward the USA
5. $2.5B would not change Arab sentiment toward the USA outside Palestine

Much of this could easily be dismissed as Israeli propaganda unless you have some unbias source to support these claims.

1. As for the hate the arab world has for the US. I believe the celebrations across the arab and muslim world after 9/11 is proof enough. however, to show you that this hatred is still there, here are a few examples, which also answer point 5:

MEMRI: Faraeen TV: US Second Civilization to Be Founded on Blood
MEMRI: Egyptian Expert on African Affairs Ibrahim Nasr Al-Din: US Sponsors Somali Piracy
MEMRI: Hamas Leader Khaled Mash'al: Arab and Muslim Leaders Should Use Iraqi and Afghan Resistance to Intimidate the U.S.
Lebanese Journalist Hassan Hamada: US Artificially Caused Haiti Earthquake

2. The grivences of the arab world against the US were best describe by Abdallah Azam during the 1980s, and were recapped the a book called "From Kabul To Jerusalem" published by Dr. Asaf Maliach and Dr. Shaul Shay. A Thourugh read in "Studies in Conflict & Terrorism" Magazine can also help.

3. The data concerning US financial support if the PA was taken from the US Census Bureau

MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine.

I don't know about MEMRI's unbias reporting.

But I think its a little silly to say "The Arab World Hates the USA" on one hand, and on the other ignore the Arab/US coalition forces that worked together to liberate Kuwait. It seems Winston is willing to see that the "glass is half empty." This is also illustrated with the FACT that the USA contributed to the PA, but the his INTERPRETATION is that it has no effect. Where is the evidence that US aid to the PA has had no effect?

And I still see reason to believe that the MAIN Grievance Arabs have with the USA is the continued support for Israel.

 

[Samson]

Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel, it won't matter. It didn't help the Soviets, who were outright against Israel. Doesn't help Europe nowadays who don't support Israel any differently then they support any other country in the Middle East.

If the US cut off Israel, we would initially see praise in the Arab and Muslim world, but it would soon be forgotten and they would find other reasons for jihad!

Interesting point made here: If the US supported Israel as much as....Sweden, for example, then why would Arabs/Muslims find other reasons for "Jihad" more with the USA than Sweden?

You mean if the US was completely anti-israel, as sweden is? yes i guess palestinians would like them more. didn't help Denmark in 2007, though, did it?

Sweden is "anti-Israel?"

I don't think so. They're neutral. But don't let that get in the way of your bias.

Denmark 2007? I wasn't aware Amsterdam had suffered a rocket attack luanched from Gaza during 2007?

 

[P F Tinmore]

1. As for the hate the arab world has for the US. I believe the celebrations across the arab and muslim world after 9/11 is proof enough. however, to show you that this hatred is still there, here are a few examples, which also answer point 5:

MEMRI: Faraeen TV: US Second Civilization to Be Founded on Blood
MEMRI: Egyptian Expert on African Affairs Ibrahim Nasr Al-Din: US Sponsors Somali Piracy
MEMRI: Hamas Leader Khaled Mash'al: Arab and Muslim Leaders Should Use Iraqi and Afghan Resistance to Intimidate the U.S.
Lebanese Journalist Hassan Hamada: US Artificially Caused Haiti Earthquake

2. The grivences of the arab world against the US were best describe by Abdallah Azam during the 1980s, and were recapped the a book called "From Kabul To Jerusalem" published by Dr. Asaf Maliach and Dr. Shaul Shay. A Thourugh read in "Studies in Conflict & Terrorism" Magazine can also help.

3. The data concerning US financial support if the PA was taken from the US Census Bureau

MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine.

I don't know about MEMRI's unbias reporting.

But I think its a little silly to say "The Arab World Hates the USA" on one hand, and on the other ignore the Arab/US coalition forces that worked together to liberate Kuwait. It seems Winston is willing to see that the "glass is half empty." This is also illustrated with the FACT that the USA contributed to the PA, but the his INTERPRETATION is that it has no effect. Where is the evidence that US aid to the PA has had no effect?

And I still see reason to believe that the MAIN Grievance Arabs have with the USA is the continued support for Israel.

The Palestinians in Gaza dedicated a childrens center to Rachel Corrie, A US citizen. Another smaller memorial for her was dedicated in the West Bank. Now they are naming a street in Rafah after her.

How can they honor someone from a place they hate?

 

[mdn2000]

Interesting point made here: If the US supported Israel as much as....Sweden, for example, then why would Arabs/Muslims find other reasons for "Jihad" more with the USA than Sweden?

You mean if the US was completely anti-israel, as sweden is? yes i guess palestinians would like them more. didn't help Denmark in 2007, though, did it?

Sweden is "anti-Israel?"

I don't think so. They're neutral. But don't let that get in the way of your bias.

Denmark 2007? I wasn't aware Amsterdam had suffered a rocket attack luanched from Gaza during 2007?

But you are aware of the problems in Denmark in regards to Moslems, right.

 

[P F Tinmore]

We support Israel because we are Christians, it is written.

Being a Christian myself, it saddens me greatly to watch Israel destroy the Holy Land.

 

[mdn2000]

MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine.

I don't know about MEMRI's unbias reporting.

But I think its a little silly to say "The Arab World Hates the USA" on one hand, and on the other ignore the Arab/US coalition forces that worked together to liberate Kuwait. It seems Winston is willing to see that the "glass is half empty." This is also illustrated with the FACT that the USA contributed to the PA, but the his INTERPRETATION is that it has no effect. Where is the evidence that US aid to the PA has had no effect?

And I still see reason to believe that the MAIN Grievance Arabs have with the USA is the continued support for Israel.

The Palestinians in Gaza dedicated a childrens center to Rachel Corrie, A US citizen. Another smaller memorial for her was dedicated in the West Bank. Now they are naming a street in Rafah after her.

How can they honor someone from a place they hate?

Its not about the people and what they do, its about the politicians and the Imans, people of all faiths follow said faith in various degrees but those who seek power and are at the higher echlons of the Arab world as in leaders in politics and the religion of Islam are much different than ordinary people, this is the problem, until those of the USA quit stereotyping all Arabs the problem will continue.

Until the USA quits appeasing the Sunnis the problem will continue.

You know why Iran hates us so, it because we make Sunnis strong.

One side must win, we play both sides, we must choose, thats as simple as it gets and it is no more complicated.

Appeasing both sides continues war, death, and tyranny.

 

[Marc39]

We support Israel because we are Christians, it is written.

Being a Christian myself, it saddens me greatly to watch Israel destroy the Holy Land.

Israel rescued the Holy Land from Muslim neglect and disrespect.

 

[ekrem]

The Marshall Plan for Europe had to current values a size of 120 Billion $.
Total Europe.
Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - The Marshall Plan

According to USA embassy in Italy, US aid to Israel has reached as of 2004 a size of 93 Billion $.
http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/IB85066.pdf

How much universities, how much Kilometers of roads do you build with that money?
No money, no honey. Even I learned that when dating materialistic teenage girls in the youth.

First of all, The marshall plan funds were given over a period of three years. while the $93 bn you mention were given spread out for over 60 years. the comparison is not in place. Second of all, During the same time many other counties have recieved billions of dollars in foreign aid, including Egypt, which recieved $63bn.

Actual Marshall-Plan was to yesteryears hard currency between 13 and 17 Billion $.
To actual values it transforms to 120 Billion $.

The link from the US embassy just shows cumulative Aids to Israel without adjusting the 93 Billion $ up to 2004 to its current values. Just giving a cumulative value.

Now if you ask me, pumping about 93 Billion $ in cumulative value into a nation of 7 Million people is sensational.
Also do not forget that Israel has a free-trade agreement with the biggest consumer market on the planet (USA).
USA just has free-trade agreements with 17 nations.
Some of these 17 nations are e.g:

• Costa Rica
• Dominican Rep
• Guatemala
• Honduras
• Nicaragua
• El Salvador
• Oman

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Those above countries aint even note-worthy nations of economic size.
You have to be very gratefull for the free-trade agreement with USA.

including Egypt, which recieved $63bn.

Egyptian population is more then 10 times bigger then Israel.
Israel has to build for a 100% penetration rate of schools for its population maybe 1.000 schools. Egypt has to build 10.000 schools.
So whereas Egypt is still building schools, Israel is investing in universities.

For the same per capita benefits to equal Israel and Egypt, Egypt had to receive more then 930 Billion $ of cumulative aid.
Anyway 63 Billion $ of aid for Egypt is also substantial, in case of Israel it is sensational.

 

[P F Tinmore]

We support Israel because we are Christians, it is written.

Being a Christian myself, it saddens me greatly to watch Israel destroy the Holy Land.

Israel rescued the Holy Land from Muslim neglect and disrespect.

By running the Christians out of their native land?