Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Coyote]

You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.

Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)

Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?

Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave? Who the hell knows. We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues. Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow. That was the world THEN.

Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans. And he sought to remedy it. And, he did.

Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics. ALL the prophets would fail your test.

The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.

Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.

That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.

I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.

How about some actual numbers? In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims. How many are involved in atrocities? How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based? Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole? Hate mongering maybe?

Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok? Reveal your sources.

Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?

How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.

Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia? Athiest-sorta China?

 

[rylah]

Well, since Coyote was talking about how Osama bin Laden was condemned by majority of Muslims, I went to look into some data...

Prepare your "surprised face" and get a shovel for coming apologetics,
because guess who are his biggest fans to this day?

Osama bin Laden Largely Discredited Among Muslim Publics in Recent Years

 

[Shusha]

Well, since Coyote was talking about how Osama bin Laden was condemned by majority of Muslims, I went to look into some data...

Prepare your "surprised face" and get a shovel for coming apologetics,
because guess who are his biggest fans to this day?

Osama bin Laden Largely Discredited Among Muslim Publics in Recent Years

Can you clarify what you mean by the part of your post which appears to have disappeared?

 

[Hollie]

It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.

THANK YOU. Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?

But it isn't unique to Islam. That is the point. People label Islam as uniquely evil.

Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of Jesus is great.

So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.

How are they uniquely evil? Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.

Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil". Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

 

[Coyote]

Well, since Coyote was talking about how Osama bin Laden was condemned by majority of Muslims, I went to look into some data...

Prepare your "surprised face" and get a shovel for coming apologetics,
because guess who are his biggest fans to this day?

Osama bin Laden Largely Discredited Among Muslim Publics in Recent Years

You really are one of the most dishonest posters I've run across here in zeal to personally attack. It would probably be better to just ignore you but I'll attempt a reasonable response.

First, I was talking about reactions around the world to the 9/11 attack and how that attack was condemned.

Your poll from 2011 shows dropping support for bin Laden himself...
what does it say about how people felt about the actual attack? I can find and link to condemnations and offers of help world wide after the attack - including from the Muslim world if that is required. Do you have any polls that actually reflect how people felt about the attack?

This is from Wikipedia but it links to the actual Pew Polls (it's just easier to insert it this way) - this is what people felt about suicide bombings (the act itself) between 2006 - 2013:

Muslim attitudes toward terrorism - Wikipedia
Suicide bombings[edit]
In a 2006 Pew poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[49]

In Europe[edit]

• (35 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (24 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 15% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (13 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (27 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.

In mainly Muslim countries[edit]

• (53 vs 45) 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 28% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (26 vs 61) 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 17% thought it could be justified often or sometimes
• (57 vs 43) 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 29% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (69 vs 28) 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 46% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (22 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (28 vs 71) 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.

In 2007, 17% of Muslims in Palestinian territories believed it could rarely or never be justified, and 70% thought it could be justified sometimes or often.[50] In comparison, 32% stated in 2014 it was never justified, while 13% said it was rarely justified, 46% said it is often or sometimes justified.[51] A 2011 report by Pew Research stated that 81% of American Muslim thought it was never justified, 5% said rarely, 7% sometimes and 1% often.[52]

In a 2013 poll, 91% of Muslims in Iraq said suicide bombings to defend Islam from enemies could never/rarely be justified while 7% said it was often/sometimes. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, 96% said it was never/rarely justified while 3% said often/sometimes. In Albania, 93% said it was never/rarely justified while 6% said often/sometimes. In Russia, 90% said never/rarely while 4% said often/sometimes. In Kosovo, 82% said it was never/rarely justified while 11% said often/sometimes. In Azerbaijan, 96% said it was never/rarely while 1% said often/sometimes. In Tajikistan, 85% said never/rarely while 3% said often/sometimes. In Kazakhstan, 95% said never/rarely while 2% said often/sometimes. In Kyrygztsan, 82% said never/rarely while 10% said often/sometimes. In Afghanistan, 58% said never/rarely and 39% often/sometimes. In Morocco, 74% said never/sometimes and 9% said often/sometimes.[53]

A 2014 Pew poll showed that support for suicide bombings had fallen to a great degree in Muslim-majority nations over the last decade:[54]

• (46 vs 45) In Lebanon, 45% it could never justified, 25% rarely and 29% said often/sometimes.
• (59 vs 38) In Egypt, 38% said it could never be justified, 35% rarely while 24% said often/sometimes.
• (29 vs 58) In Turkey, 58% said never, 11% rarely while 18% said often/sometimes.
• (44 vs 55) In Jordan, 55% said never, 29% rarely while 15% said often/sometimes.
• (8 vs 90) In Tunisia, 90% said never, 3% rarely while 5% said often/sometimes.
• (61 vs 33) In Bangladesh, 33% said never, 14% rarely and 47% said often/sometimes.
• (33 vs 60) In Malaysia, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 18% often/sometimes.
• (22 vs 76) In Indonesia, 76% said never, 13% rarely and 9% often/sometimes.
• (7 vs 83) In Pakistan, 83% said never, 4% rarely and 3% often/sometimes.
• (34 vs 60) In Nigeria, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 19% often/sometimes.
• (31 vs 56) In Senegal, 56% said never, 16% rarely and 15% often/sometimes.

In mostly non-Muslim nations:

• (45 vs 50) In Tanzania, 50% said never, 19% said rarely and 26% said often/sometimes.
• (46 vs 48) In Israel, 48% said never, 30% rarely and 16% said often/sometimes.

 

[Coyote]

It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.

THANK YOU. Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?

But it isn't unique to Islam. That is the point. People label Islam as uniquely evil.

Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of Jesus is great.

So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.

How are they uniquely evil? Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.

Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil". Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

 

[Hollie]

THANK YOU. Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?

But it isn't unique to Islam. That is the point. People label Islam as uniquely evil.

Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of Jesus is great.

So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.

How are they uniquely evil? Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.

Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil". Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

 

[Hollie]

A portion of an article from almost two decades ago. The Islamic psychopaths have only gotten worse.


Hamas and the Critical Role of Hate Indoctrination - Justus Reid Weiner and Noam Weissman

A video clip repeatedly broadcast on Palestinian TV since December 2000 features a child actor playing the role of Muhammad al-Dura (who died in the crossfire between Israeli troops and Palestinian terrorists in September 2004) calling on other Palestinian children to literally follow him to paradise through martyrdom: "I am waving not to part but to say, 'Follow me.'"25 While the clip was removed from Palestinian TV in 2003 after U.S. senators expressed shock and horror at what they perceived to be "horrific child abuse," the PA resumed its use in broadcasts in June 2006.26

 

[Hollie]

Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.

That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.

I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.

How about some actual numbers? In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims. How many are involved in atrocities? How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based? Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole? Hate mongering maybe?

Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok? Reveal your sources.

Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?

How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.

Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia? Athiest-sorta China?

Are you hoping to make the case that Islam is just as retrograde as others, therefore, no worries?

Odd, but I haven’t found a world wide plague of exported psychopaths from the places you hoped to play the ‘moral equivalency” game.

 

[Coyote]

But it isn't unique to Islam. That is the point. People label Islam as uniquely evil.

Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of Jesus is great.

So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.

How are they uniquely evil? Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.

Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil". Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

 

[Coyote]

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.

I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.

How about some actual numbers? In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims. How many are involved in atrocities? How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based? Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole? Hate mongering maybe?

Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok? Reveal your sources.

Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?

How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.

Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia? Athiest-sorta China?

Are you hoping to make the case that Islam is just as retrograde as others, therefore, no worries?

Odd, but I haven’t found a world wide plague of exported psychopaths from the places you hoped to play the ‘moral equivalency” game.

You keep trying to claim it's "unique".

I don't think you know what that word means.

Carry on

 

[Hollie]

Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of Jesus is great.

So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.

How are they uniquely evil? Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.

Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil". Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

 

[Coyote]

How are they uniquely evil? Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.

Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil". Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say. My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

 

[Hollie]

I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.

I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.

How about some actual numbers? In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims. How many are involved in atrocities? How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based? Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole? Hate mongering maybe?

Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok? Reveal your sources.

Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?

How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.

Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia? Athiest-sorta China?

Are you hoping to make the case that Islam is just as retrograde as others, therefore, no worries?

Odd, but I haven’t found a world wide plague of exported psychopaths from the places you hoped to play the ‘moral equivalency” game.

You keep trying to claim it's "unique".

I don't think you know what that word means.

Carry on

Thanks. Other than Sunni and Shia holy warriors routinely as’splodin each other at mosques, I can’t find instances of Lutheran and Presbyterian suicide bombers attacking each other.

Maybe you have a link to wiki

 

[Shusha]

So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil" with a "unique practice of evil"?

What is unique?

It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format. But I start with ideology. Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology. Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others.

The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs. Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions. Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil. Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.

 

[Hollie]

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Ah, you’re borrowing conspiracy theories from P F Tinmore

Carry on

Odd that polls don’t stop Islamic mass murders. I’m sure the folks in New York, Madrid, London, etc., etc. are comforted by your polls.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say. My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0

Hmmm!

 

[Coyote]

So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil" with a "unique practice of evil"?

What is unique?

It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format. But I start with ideology. Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology. Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others.

The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs. Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions. Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil. Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.

Ok...that would seem to fit a number of religions...

 

[Coyote]

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Ah, you’re borrowing conspiracy theories from P F Tinmore

Carry on

Odd that polls don’t stop Islamic mass murders. I’m sure the folks in New York, Madrid, London, etc., etc. are comforted by your polls.

Polls don’t stop any mass murders, like the guy who shot the Tree of Life Synagogue or the mosques in Christ Church.

 

[Coyote]

Every single one of your claims applies to others too. Feel free to hold them accountable.

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say. My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0

Hmmm!

I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?