Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Hollie]

I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.


Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.

Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.

Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.

I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.

This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.

A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.



To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"


610 - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
613 - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
615 - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
619 - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
620 - Institution of five daily prayers
622 - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 - Battle at Oman
633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
633 - Battle of Kazima
633 - Battle of Walaja
633 - Battle of Ulleis
633 - Battle of Anbar
634 - Battle of Basra,
634 - Battle of Damascus
634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 - Battle of Namaraq
634 - Battle of Saqatia.
635 - Battle of Bridge.
635 - Battle of Buwaib.
635 - Conquest of Damascus.
635 - Battle of Fahl.
636 - Battle of Yermuk.
636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 - Conquest of Madain.
637 - Battle of Jalula.
638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 - Battle of Nihawand
642 - Battle of Rayy in Persia
643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 - Conquest of Fars
644 - Conquest of Kharan.
644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
659 - Conquest of Egypt
661 - Ali is murdered.
662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 - Siege of Constantinople
687 - Battle of Kufa
691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 - Conquest of Spain
713 - Conquest of Multan
716 - Invasion of Constantinople
732 - Battle of Tours in France.
740 - Battle of the Nobles.
741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 - Battle of Rayy.
749 - Battle of lsfahan
749 - Battle of Nihawand
750 - Battle of Zab
772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain


After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above), 600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran two verses2:

He [God —ed.] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed.] from among the People of the Book [Jews —ed.] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.

He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed.] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.

You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.

Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)

Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?

Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave? Who the hell knows. We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues. Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow. That was the world THEN.

Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans. And he sought to remedy it. And, he did.

Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics. ALL the prophets would fail your test.

The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.

Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.

That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.

I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.

How about some actual numbers? In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims. How many are involved in atrocities? How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based? Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole? Hate mongering maybe?

Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok? Reveal your sources.

Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?

How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.

 

[Shusha]

Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.

Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?

Sure, I can agree.

Now can we dump the double standard?

You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard. The standard is not the number of dead.

Exactly. In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.

When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.

I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.

But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.

This isn't actually complicated. Standards are pretty clear. It is morally wrong and illegal to:

Target any non-combatants.
Target anything other than a military objective.
Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.


Israel is guilty of none of these things. Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.

Um. Did you watch your own video? Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards. Not to mention moral ones.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sure, I can agree.

Now can we dump the double standard?

You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard. The standard is not the number of dead.

Exactly. In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.

When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.

I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.

But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.

This isn't actually complicated. Standards are pretty clear. It is morally wrong and illegal to:

Target any non-combatants.
Target anything other than a military objective.
Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.


Israel is guilty of none of these things. Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.

Um. Did you watch your own video? Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards. Not to mention moral ones.

That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard. The standard is not the number of dead.

Exactly. In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.

When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.

I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.

But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.

This isn't actually complicated. Standards are pretty clear. It is morally wrong and illegal to:

Target any non-combatants.
Target anything other than a military objective.
Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.


Israel is guilty of none of these things. Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.

Um. Did you watch your own video? Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards. Not to mention moral ones.

That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.

settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.


Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?

 

[Shusha]

'];\

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

The legacy isn't the problem. The actions of today are the problem.

Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.

Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.

I tend to look at polls. You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children. That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism. It's 1.5 million people.

I also look at facts. Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology. Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada. Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong.

All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.

I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.

Another analogy: Not all men are rapists. Nearly all rapists are men. And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.

 

[Shusha]

You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard. The standard is not the number of dead.

Exactly. In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.

When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.

I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.

But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.

This isn't actually complicated. Standards are pretty clear. It is morally wrong and illegal to:

Target any non-combatants.
Target anything other than a military objective.
Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.


Israel is guilty of none of these things. Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.

Um. Did you watch your own video? Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards. Not to mention moral ones.

That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.

Yes, you've tried to spoon up that nonsense before. Weasel law so you feel good about murdering Israeli children.

 

[Hollie]

No way yet to know if this is true. That it’s reported on “Sputnik news” makes me cautious.

Further along in the article, it’s noted: “Hamas will be fully disarmed, but its members will receive monthly salaries.”

I’m not convinced that Hamas would agree to such a condition, but time will tell. Ultimately, I just don’t see Hamas giving up their weapons and losing ialamo street cred by doing so.


‘New Palestine’ to Emerge As a Result of Agreement Between Israel, Hamas, PLO - Report

DAMASCUS (Sputnik) – A "New Palestine" state is planned under a new deal, which will stipulate Palestine paying Israel for protection against international aggression, the Lebanese Al Mayadeen TV channel reported.

According to documents allegedly obtained by Al Mayadeen on Monday, a trilateral agreement is planned to be signed between Israel, Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

Under the deal, a new state named "New Palestine" will be created in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, except for the territories already occupied by Israel. Jerusalem will be shared by Israel and "New Palestine".

 

[Coyote]

'];\

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

The legacy isn't the problem. The actions of today are the problem.

Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.

Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.

I tend to look at polls. You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children. That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism. It's 1.5 million people.

I also look at facts. Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology. Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada. Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong.

All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.

I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.

Another analogy: Not all men are rapists. Nearly all rapists are men. And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.

I disagree that there Islam is unique in this - and history provides many examples of the same behavior in other religions. It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Exactly. In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.

When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.

I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.

But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.

This isn't actually complicated. Standards are pretty clear. It is morally wrong and illegal to:

Target any non-combatants.
Target anything other than a military objective.
Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.


Israel is guilty of none of these things. Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.

Um. Did you watch your own video? Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards. Not to mention moral ones.

That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.

settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.


Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?

I was paraphrasing. The description said nationals of an occupying power. So...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This isn't actually complicated. Standards are pretty clear. It is morally wrong and illegal to:

Target any non-combatants.
Target anything other than a military objective.
Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.


Israel is guilty of none of these things. Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.

Um. Did you watch your own video? Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards. Not to mention moral ones.

That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.

settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.


Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?

I was paraphrasing. The description said nationals of an occupying power. So...

So answer the question.....Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?

 

[Coyote]

'];\

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

The legacy isn't the problem. The actions of today are the problem.

Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.

Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.

I tend to look at polls. You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children. That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism. It's 1.5 million people.

I also look at facts. Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology. Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada. Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong.

All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.

I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.

Another analogy: Not all men are rapists. Nearly all rapists are men. And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.

I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza. And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

I've heard it stated this way: Not all Muslims are terrorists. Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".

And it is inaccurate at best, demonizing at worst.

According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.

I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom. Feel free to participate.

 

[Coyote]

lkpj

No way yet to know if this is true. That it’s reported on “Sputnik news” makes me cautious.

Further along in the article, it’s noted: “Hamas will be fully disarmed, but its members will receive monthly salaries.”

I’m not convinced that Hamas would agree to such a condition, but time will tell. Ultimately, I just don’t see Hamas giving up their weapons and losing ialamo street cred by doing so.


‘New Palestine’ to Emerge As a Result of Agreement Between Israel, Hamas, PLO - Report

DAMASCUS (Sputnik) – A "New Palestine" state is planned under a new deal, which will stipulate Palestine paying Israel for protection against international aggression, the Lebanese Al Mayadeen TV channel reported.

According to documents allegedly obtained by Al Mayadeen on Monday, a trilateral agreement is planned to be signed between Israel, Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

Under the deal, a new state named "New Palestine" will be created in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, except for the territories already occupied by Israel. Jerusalem will be shared by Israel and "New Palestine".

That sounds rather bizarre - I can't see either side going for it. Intriguing though.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.

Um. Did you watch your own video? Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards. Not to mention moral ones.

That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.

settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.


Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?

I was paraphrasing. The description said nationals of an occupying power. So...

So answer the question.....Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?

According to Tinmore, Israel proper is also "occupied territory." So little Shay, sleeping in his crib in Tel-Aviv, is also fair game to have his throat slit.

 

[MJB12741]

'];\

I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.

The legacy isn't the problem. The actions of today are the problem.

Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.

Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.

I tend to look at polls. You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children. That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism. It's 1.5 million people.

I also look at facts. Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology. Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada. Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong.

All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.

I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.

Another analogy: Not all men are rapists. Nearly all rapists are men. And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.

I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza. And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

I've heard it stated this way: Not all Muslims are terrorists. Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".

And it is inaccurate at best, demonizing at worst.

According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.

I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom. Feel free to participate.

Correct. Most Muslims are not terrorists. My son & I belong to an interfaith organization promoting love, peace & understanding. We have some dear Muslim friends & were present at a dedication to their new Mosque. However, let us all consider documented facts as to who are the worlds predominant terrorists & their religions.

The World's 10 Richest Terrorist Organizations

 

[Shusha]

I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza. And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.

Yes, I've read quite a few polls, and not just ones on Gaza. The Gaza number was pulled from a much more comprehensive set of polls.

Would you please acknowledge the "disturbing".

I've heard it stated this way: Not all Muslims are terrorists. Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".

And it is inaccurate at best, demonizing at worst.

Inaccurate? Demonizing? The top four terrorist organizations in the world for number of deaths caused are related to Islam. Eight of the top ten richest terrorist organizations in the world are related to Islam. The top countries for terrorist acts are related to Islam. Terrorism in the name of Islam is a big problem in the world. You can't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Do you have the figures for a different religion? For comparisons sake?

According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.

Its the US. You might want to think about how the culture of Islam is different in the US and why. (Also, I've read those reports and interestingly, as a percentage of population, its a different story).

I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom. Feel free to participate.

I disagree. Understanding how Islam influences the I/P conflict is important.

 

[Shusha]

It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.

THANK YOU. Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza. And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.

Yes, I've read quite a few polls, and not just ones on Gaza. The Gaza number was pulled from a much more comprehensive set of polls.

Would you please acknowledge the "disturbing".

I've heard it stated this way: Not all Muslims are terrorists. Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".

And it is inaccurate at best, demonizing at worst.

Inaccurate? Demonizing? The top four terrorist organizations in the world for number of deaths caused are related to Islam. Eight of the top ten richest terrorist organizations in the world are related to Islam. The top countries for terrorist acts are related to Islam. Terrorism in the name of Islam is a big problem in the world. You can't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Do you have the figures for a different religion? For comparisons sake?

According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.

Its the US. You might want to think about how the culture of Islam is different in the US and why. (Also, I've read those reports and interestingly, as a percentage of population, its a different story).

I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom. Feel free to participate.

I disagree. Understanding how Islam influences the I/P conflict is important.

Judaism also influences the I/P conflict, since many Jews feel that all of Eretz Yisrael is our G-d given land, and therefore it's forbidden to give up any part of it.

 

[rylah]

Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.

A "few bad apples"?!

80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.

That is not a "few bad apples". That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.

kill innocent Israelis.

Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?

First you incite to murder,
then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.

Palestinian mentality

 

[rylah]

What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth.

How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?

When Palestinian youth goes through what these Jews went through, and actually present this as defense in court, rather than just telling stories for the media, then you can judge the courts behavior or prejudice. And they do have the same support both in the Knesset and with the armies of attorneys and NGO's for every case. If there was something there would already be a case in the court.

Meantime you're trying to hold the stick by both its ends.
Implying that it's not just that not all confessions under torture are held off,
while at the same time insisting on using such a confession to accuse Jews when it fits your preconceived notions.

This sounds awfully similar to one of Rashida Tlaib's latest gems of wisdom: "Analysts need to be African Americans, not people that are not".

In other words, you guys have to decide - are you against racism or do you use it to further promote a racist agenda?

B.S. And I mean TOTAL B.S, this assumption that Palestinian kids couldn't possibly have gone through what these Jewish kids CLAIM to have gone through is so laughable...in fact, it's a total farce.

First: did Shin Bet use torture?

If YES - then YES - it is wrong.

Do we agree on that point?

If torture WAS used...then, there is the uncomfortable question. And - maybe this addresses your preconceived notions on Palestinians?

If torture was used...well shouldn't the SAME STANDARD be applied to Palestinian suspects who's confessions were coerced at the hands of the Shin Bet? Or does that only apply to Jewish kids?

Personally - I disapprove of torture all around. Period. NO exceptions.

How about you?

How can we agree on anything when I deal with facts which you have no respect for whatsoever, while you solely rely on assumptions and claims?

If you had any facts to contradict anything I said, instead of constantly deflecting,
they'd already be presented.

But you have nothing aside from sensationalist media headlines,
and stories paid for by foreign governments, that in spite serving your agenda are not enough to even stand in court.

I just know too much from what's actually going on the ground,
while seeing enough of your posting to realize that you're just another lousy enemy of both your country and my people, pathologically incapable of telling truth.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.

A "few bad apples"?!

80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.

That is not a "few bad apples". That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.

kill innocent Israelis.

Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?

First you incite to murder,
then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.

Palestinian mentality

Then those laws bite the dust in the courts because they are based on bullshit.