Who are the Israelis?

[P F Tinmore]

It doesn't matter. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

So you are falling back to the idea that the entire territory is "Palestinian" and that Israel has no sovereignty over any land.

Nobody has posted anything to the contrary.

I got 50 pages which say otherwise. But you you're Jew hatred is so blinding you can't see reality.

No you don't.

And don't play that Jew hate card on me.

 

[Shusha]

No you don't.

And don't play that Jew hate card on me.

Your denial of reality is astonishing. There is absolutely no basis in reality to deny the existence of Israel. It's inconsistent with fact. I've demonstrated fact clearly on the other thread.

What other possible explanation could there be except an irrational hatred of Jews to deny reality? This isn't an example of your opinion being wonky. You've adequately demonstrated your intelligence in the past. And your ability to reason.

But here you are actually denying reality. It defies all possible explanation. Except one.

 

[P F Tinmore]

No you don't.

And don't play that Jew hate card on me.

Your denial of reality is astonishing. There is absolutely no basis in reality to deny the existence of Israel. It's inconsistent with fact. I've demonstrated fact clearly on the other thread.

What other possible explanation could there be except an irrational hatred of Jews to deny reality? This isn't an example of your opinion being wonky. You've adequately demonstrated your intelligence in the past. And your ability to reason.

But here you are actually denying reality. It defies all possible explanation. Except one.

Whose reality?

And no you don't.

 

[Shusha]

Whose reality?

Whose reality?! Are you KIDDING me?

Reality, reality. Actual facts. That which is real.

There is a duck walking around and quacking and you are trying to tell me, "ducks don't exist". Its bizarre.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for heaven sake ---!

It doesn't matter. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

So you are falling back to the idea that the entire territory is "Palestinian" and that Israel has no sovereignty over any land.

Nobody has posted anything to the contrary.

(COMMENT)

This is absolute nonsense!!! Sovereignty is that state of being that one has control over (no higher authority).

One could make an argument that Area "A" is quasi-sovereign territory for the Palestinian Authority (PA). And, one can make even a stronger argument that the Gaza Strip is under HAMAS sovereignty. One can argue that the Palestinian Authority (PA) has a controlling influence in Jerusalem (less that and especially the Eastern Quarter the Temple Mount area.

Everything else in the former Territory of the Mandate is, under Israeli control. For political purposes, the Sovereignty that Israel claims is only what the Knesset has approved.

The PA and HAMAS have very limited control over a very limited area. Even the PA and HAMAS admit in their argument about "apartheid" and occupation that the PA/HAMAS have not been able to exercise sovereignty.

But, the PA and HAMAS in reality, exercise very limited sovereignty. Certainly, not the entire former territory of the Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for heaven sake ---!

It doesn't matter. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

So you are falling back to the idea that the entire territory is "Palestinian" and that Israel has no sovereignty over any land.

Nobody has posted anything to the contrary.

(COMMENT)

This is absolute nonsense!!! Sovereignty is that state of being that one has control over (no higher authority).

One could make an argument that Area "A" is quasi-sovereign territory for the Palestinian Authority (PA). And, one can make even a stronger argument that the Gaza Strip is under HAMAS sovereignty. One can argue that the Palestinian Authority (PA) has a controlling influence in Jerusalem (less that and especially the Eastern Quarter the Temple Mount area.

Everything else in the former Territory of the Mandate is, under Israeli control. For political purposes, the Sovereignty that Israel claims is only what the Knesset has approved.

The PA and HAMAS have very limited control over a very limited area. Even the PA and HAMAS admit in their argument about "apartheid" and occupation that the PA/HAMAS have not been able to exercise sovereignty.

But, the PA and HAMAS in reality, exercise very limited sovereignty. Certainly, not the entire former territory of the Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

Everything else in the former Territory of the Mandate is, under Israeli control.

Control is a term used to define an occupation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for heaven sake ---!

It doesn't matter. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

So you are falling back to the idea that the entire territory is "Palestinian" and that Israel has no sovereignty over any land.

Nobody has posted anything to the contrary.

(COMMENT)

This is absolute nonsense!!! Sovereignty is that state of being that one has control over (no higher authority).

One could make an argument that Area "A" is quasi-sovereign territory for the Palestinian Authority (PA). And, one can make even a stronger argument that the Gaza Strip is under HAMAS sovereignty. One can argue that the Palestinian Authority (PA) has a controlling influence in Jerusalem (less that and especially the Eastern Quarter the Temple Mount area.

Everything else in the former Territory of the Mandate is, under Israeli control. For political purposes, the Sovereignty that Israel claims is only what the Knesset has approved.

The PA and HAMAS have very limited control over a very limited area. Even the PA and HAMAS admit in their argument about "apartheid" and occupation that the PA/HAMAS have not been able to exercise sovereignty.

But, the PA and HAMAS in reality, exercise very limited sovereignty. Certainly, not the entire former territory of the Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

But, the PA and HAMAS in reality, exercise very limited sovereignty. Certainly, not the entire former territory of the Mandate.

The right to sovereignty can be violated. That does not negate that right.

BTW, there goes that "former mandate" thing again.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for heaven sake ---!

It doesn't matter. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

So you are falling back to the idea that the entire territory is "Palestinian" and that Israel has no sovereignty over any land.

Nobody has posted anything to the contrary.

(COMMENT)

This is absolute nonsense!!! Sovereignty is that state of being that one has control over (no higher authority).

One could make an argument that Area "A" is quasi-sovereign territory for the Palestinian Authority (PA). And, one can make even a stronger argument that the Gaza Strip is under HAMAS sovereignty. One can argue that the Palestinian Authority (PA) has a controlling influence in Jerusalem (less that and especially the Eastern Quarter the Temple Mount area.

Everything else in the former Territory of the Mandate is, under Israeli control. For political purposes, the Sovereignty that Israel claims is only what the Knesset has approved.

The PA and HAMAS have very limited control over a very limited area. Even the PA and HAMAS admit in their argument about "apartheid" and occupation that the PA/HAMAS have not been able to exercise sovereignty.

But, the PA and HAMAS in reality, exercise very limited sovereignty. Certainly, not the entire former territory of the Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

Everything else in the former Territory of the Mandate is, under Israeli control.

Control is a term used to define an occupation.

So then, the Islamic terrorist franchises known as Hamas and Fatah, having limited control (not exercising sovereignty) over territory meets your definition of occupation.

 

[Shusha]

The right to sovereignty can be violated. That does not negate that right.

There is no "right" to sovereignty. There certainly is no "right" to sovereignty over specific parcels of land. Sovereignty either exists or it does not. There IS a right to self-determination and that includes the right to create a sovereign State. But that right is with the peoples and not with the land. Lands don't have rights to sovereignty. Peoples do. The boundaries of where peoples exercise their sovereignty can certainly change. The "right" to territorial integrity is a right of States, not of peoples.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The right to sovereignty can be violated. That does not negate that right.

There is no "right" to sovereignty. There certainly is no "right" to sovereignty over specific parcels of land. Sovereignty either exists or it does not. There IS a right to self-determination and that includes the right to create a sovereign State. But that right is with the peoples and not with the land. Lands don't have rights to sovereignty. Peoples do. The boundaries of where peoples exercise their sovereignty can certainly change. The "right" to territorial integrity is a right of States, not of peoples.

There is no "right" to sovereignty. There certainly is no "right" to sovereignty over specific parcels of land.

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

 

[Shusha]

Where have I ever argued that the Arab Palestinian people don't have the right to self-determination and independence?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where have I ever argued that the Arab Palestinian people don't have the right to self-determination and independence?

You support all of Israel's violations against the Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

Where have I ever argued that the Arab Palestinian people don't have the right to self-determination and independence?

You support all of Israel's violations against the Palestinians.

Well, given your absurd list of "violations" that is hardly surprising.

Now, Jewish self-determination. Self-determination of ethnically cleansed and murdered peoples. Which?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tom Segev

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sahar Vardi

 

[rylah]

Sahar Vardi

Let's see, Sabeel, a Christian Liberation Theology organization.

And Shahar Vardi who has never been in the military is telling us what "soldiers think and go through"...
.Just think for a moment - she's saying that virtually any pub in Israel is full of drunk armed soldiers with m-16's...and that schools are full of soldiers teaching kids "because there're too many soldiers"

And You immediately believe such fairytale?

 

[rylah]

Sahar Vardi

9:40 she's talking about "soldier teachers"...the length they go and don't even blush.

Says high school students go to different military bases - they don't.
Says that high school students receive training and learn to shoot - blatant lie.

 

[rylah]

Tom Segev

"New Historians" was a political movement among the far-left journalists in the 90's.
Tom Segev one of them.

Q. Why do all such "new historians" attempt at denying what happened to Jews in Palestine before Balfour or Zionism?

 

[JoelT1]

Jews were originally called palestinians in the British Mandate which was called palestine, originally a Roman name for ancient Israel. Jews’ historical land.

Most Israeli Jews are native to Israel

 

[rylah]

Dr. Shimon Moyal

Was born in Jaffa in 1866 to his father Yosef ,merchant and redeemer of land, one of the heads of the Ma'aravim community, son of Aharon Moyal, the father of the Moyal family in Israel, and his mother Simcha the daughter of rabbi Moshe Fardo, the chief rabbi of Alexandria.

He studied in heiders and yeshivas until he was 16. Afterward, he studied for two years at the boarding school of the sage Zaki Cohen in Beirut, where he completed his studies in Arabic and French. He studied Islam and Arabic literature for a while in the international Muslim school Al-Azhar in Cairo and later at the Jesuit University in Beirut and was admitted to the medical school.

He married Esther, daughter of Abdallah Azhari of Beirut. Settled in Cairo and worked as a doctor. He regularly published articles in the Arabic and French press for the advancement and brotherhood of the peoples of the East, including the Jews, and was highly respected in the circles of writers and maskilim in Egypt and the Arab East in general, and was active in the Freemasonry movement.


After the establishment of the Turkish constitution in 1908 he returned to Jaffa and continued his medical, public and literary work, and in 1909 he published the first part of the translation of the Talmud into Arabic, which he began to study in Egypt. He continued to publish articles in the Syrian and Egyptian newspapers, and his wife frequently published poems and articles in Arabic.


When anti-Jewish propaganda began in the Palestine and Syrian newspapers, and particularly in the Christian Arab newspapers, which joined the economic competition with religious hostility and warned of the Zionist danger that threatened the integrity of the Ottoman Empire and the status of the Arab people, he and his wife responded with articles in the Arab newspapers to instigators of hatred and to refute their arguments - as well as talented Jewish writers in Europe in the papers of their countries of residence, and also tried to prove the general good of friendly and brotherly relations among all parts of the population, and in particular emphasized the racial and religious brotherhood between the Muslim Arabs and the Jews. He also emphasized to the detractors the loyalty of the Jews to the Ottoman Empire - as did the Jews who fought anti-Semitism in other countries, and with the very same rate of success. The Arab newspapers did not always give their answers, since the editors and the other inciters were interested not in clarifying the truth, but in achieving the positions and goals they aspired to. Thus, he founded the Arab daily newspaper “Sawt al-Othomania” in Jaffa, and invested a great deal of energy and money in it, losing more than 4,000 francs and making an effort to maintain it in the future, that was a trumpet for the objections of the Jews towards the Arab public opinion, until it was closed at the beginning of WW1.

In 1913 he also established the secret association “Hamagen” (shield) with David Moyal, Avraham Elmaliach, Yosef Eliyahu Shalosh, Yakov Shalosh and Nissim Malul. It established contacts with important Arabs and with the heads of the Arab national movement that aspired to national liberation and the separation of the Arab territories from Turkey. With the help of their connections they were able to continue publishing answers to the Arab press.


When the First World War broke out and the government of Jamal Pasha began to chase the instigators of the Arab movement with a strong hand, people of the Hamagen were also in danger because of their connections with this movement. However, Dr. N. Maloul managed to eliminate the writings that might serve as proof against them in this matter.

He died in Jaffa, 21 Sivan 5675 (1915).
His descendants are: Abdallah Nadim (Ovadia), Munir. and the girls: Sa'ad, Munira, Victoria.


1219 | Encyclopedia of the Founders and Builders of Israel