White man shoots very drunk black woman breaking into his house. Charged w murder

[Peterf]

Again we see that if you're white, you have no rights in america. If the races were reversed, the govt would call the shooter a hero.

You Americans are really obsessed with 'race'. If the two people involved had both been 'white' or 'black' this story would not have had coverage except locally.

 

[Iceman]

Again we see that if you're white, you have no rights in america. If the races were reversed, the govt would call the shooter a hero.

You Americans are really obsessed with 'race'. If the two people involved had both been 'white' or 'black' this story would not have had coverage except locally.

Yep. White on White Crime, Black on Black Crime, and Black on White Crime get little coverage in America. These types of crimes don't get the same views and don't fit the mainstream social narrative.

 

[jon_berzerk]

This does not look very good for the home owner, who should have at least questioned the girl at the front door.

He does not have a very good case.

he certainly has some issues to deal with

saying he accidentally shot her

in the beginning and then now claiming self defense

will come back to bite him in the ass

Never talk to the cops, EVER. They work for the prosecution, and are always looking for a collar. He should have just called the police and lawyered up, regardless of whether it was self defense or an accidental discharge.

Never talk to the cops

yup

anything can be used against you

he should of also had self defense homeowners insurance

 

[jon_berzerk]

He shot through the screen door.

That means the screen door wasn't even open.

Man, there are some stupid racists on this thread.

the screen of the door which he shot through

was knocked out of its frame before he fired the shot

that is a fact in the case

someone on the outside of the home knocked the screen out of the door

Even if that is true, who is to say it was her who did it? Either way, he was really in fear of is life? If so, why did he open the damn door?

to confront someone trying to break and enter at 4 in the morning

 

[jon_berzerk]

[

Never talk to the cops, EVER. They work for the prosecution, and are always looking for a collar. He should have just called the police and lawyered up, regardless of whether it was self defense or an accidental discharge.

There are circumstances where it's smart to talk to the cops but this isn't one of those times. He should have called the cops and said there was a dead woman on his porch and then shut up. He should not have admitted he shot her.

even worse he said it was an accident

 

[jon_berzerk]

I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but several things bother me about this case. First, some people are saying she was trying to break in but if that were the case why would she keep knocking on the door? Most people who are trying to break into a house at night don't want to wake those inside. Even home invaders don't keep banging on the door; instead they attempt to force it open as quickly as possibly to take those inside by surprise. From what I've read at the link OP provided, there is insufficient evidence to establish the woman was trying to break in (banging/knocking on the door is not the equivalent of breaking and entering). According to Michigan's Castle Doctrine it is not enough for the defendant to believe someone is trying to break in. Instead it must also be proved that the person was actually in the process of breaking and entering (the applicable law is shown below).

Second, if the woman was not trying to break in the Castle Doctrine does not apply and the defendant is left with only the standard self-defense provisions that apply in all states: the person must have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury at the time the deadly force is used. I question how anyone could have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury if he is shielded by a closed door and is holding a shotgun. I sure as hell wouldn't be afraid in that situation. This guy actually opened the door and then shot through the screen door and I think this will be his undoing.

Pertinent parts of Michigan law as it applies to the Castle Doctrine (highlights are my own):

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).


Metro-Detroit Criminal Lawyer: Michigan?s ?Castle Doctrine?

In conclusion, I believe there will be a plea deal; however if it goes to trial the man will be convicted.

i think so to at this point

 

[hollowwhale]

Everyone knows you wait for the intruder to come inside the house. No one opens the door and shoots through the screen door. Not that it's a great loss to waste a pothead. For that alone she had it coming.

I agree with you. and besides is she really a threat that he has to shoot her?

 

[BDBoop]

Everyone knows you wait for the intruder to come inside the house. No one opens the door and shoots through the screen door. Not that it's a great loss to waste a pothead. For that alone she had it coming.

I agree with you. and besides is she really a threat that he has to shoot her?

Uh-huh. What a lovely first post. Welcome to USMB.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

There are circumstances where it's smart to talk to the cops but this isn't one of those times. He should have called the cops and said there was a dead woman on his porch and then shut up. He should not have admitted he shot her.

His first call should have been to a lawyer who in turn would call the police.

.

Most people don't have a lawyer so they would just have to pull a number out of the phone book and hope they can trust him. Good luck with that.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but several things bother me about this case. First, some people are saying she was trying to break in but if that were the case why would she keep knocking on the door? Most people who are trying to break into a house at night don't want to wake those inside. Even home invaders don't keep banging on the door; instead they attempt to force it open as quickly as possibly to take those inside by surprise.

HAHAHA. You are another idiot who believes people are rational. Fact is the world is full of drugged out loonies who do irrational things. When some nut is banging on your door at 3 AM, you have to figure you have a nutcase on your hand, probably armed.

 

[Pogo]

Everyone knows you wait for the intruder to come inside the house. No one opens the door and shoots through the screen door. Not that it's a great loss to waste a pothead. For that alone she had it coming.

I agree with you. and besides is she really a threat that he has to shoot her?

There's a mixed message ....

 

[Zona]

Evasive response.
The question is would you be so quick to assume the homeowner guilty if he was a relative of yours.
I have no dog in this fight. If the homeowner is guilty of a crime, let him pay the price.
But first, let the process work itself out.

That question is idiotic. Who would think their family member in this case was guilty. Being a family member would make judgement askew.

Again, dumb question. Now back to this idiot who shot a girl in the face by accident...oh sorry, because he was afraid for his life. I cant wait to see him do serious serious time.

Given the fact that there is another poster with a point of view similar to yours who has the shooter in prison already, the question is 100% legitimate.
Even you have decided he is guilty.
No trial. No evidence. No speedy trial....Just throw the guy into prison, right?
You tell me....Should I not question that?

I will make it clear for you. I (in my mind) think he is guilty. I hope he is found guilty and I CANT WAIT TO SEE HIM DO SERIOUS TIME.

 

[Zona]

The question is would you be so quick to assume the homeowner guilty if he was a relative of yours.

Given who most of my relatives are, yes.

I think the shooting was completely unjusitified and the homeowner was a trigger happy fool who didn't use his head at all and made a hugely stupid choice which resulted in a young, unarmed person losing her life. People who have guns have a responsibility to act with reason and thoughfulness: he didn't and should pay with his life as well: not execution but life in prison.

Perfect.

 

[Zona]

Again we see that if you're white, you have no rights in america. If the races were reversed, the govt would call the shooter a hero.

You Americans are really obsessed with 'race'. If the two people involved had both been 'white' or 'black' this story would not have had coverage except locally.

Disagree. Here in america, if they were both black, this would have been a non story. White on white, a fair amount of coverage.

White on black...pretty big.
Black on white....Fox would have set up camp at his house.

 

[Zona]

the screen of the door which he shot through

was knocked out of its frame before he fired the shot

that is a fact in the case

someone on the outside of the home knocked the screen out of the door

Even if that is true, who is to say it was her who did it? Either way, he was really in fear of is life? If so, why did he open the damn door?

to confront someone trying to break and enter at 4 in the morning

If you are in fear of your life, you don't CONFRONT THEM. Does this make sense to you?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

to confront someone trying to break and enter at 4 in the morning

If you are in fear of your life, you don't CONFRONT THEM. Does this make sense to you?

Hey stupid. What's the alternative? Call the cops? This is detroit.

 

[Zona]

to confront someone trying to break and enter at 4 in the morning

If you are in fear of your life, you don't CONFRONT THEM. Does this make sense to you?

Hey stupid. What's the alternative? Call the cops? This is detroit.

No dumb ass. Take away a barrier by opening the door and then look, see its an unarmed little girl and shoot her in the face. Say its an accident, then say you were in fear of your life ...cause you know, its an unarmed little girl.

 

[jon_berzerk]

to confront someone trying to break and enter at 4 in the morning

If you are in fear of your life, you don't CONFRONT THEM. Does this make sense to you?

Hey stupid. What's the alternative? Call the cops? This is detroit.

the cops had been called on the accident and the girl walking off

decided it was low level priority

 

[jon_berzerk]

There are circumstances where it's smart to talk to the cops but this isn't one of those times. He should have called the cops and said there was a dead woman on his porch and then shut up. He should not have admitted he shot her.

His first call should have been to a lawyer who in turn would call the police.

.

Most people don't have a lawyer so they would just have to pull a number out of the phone book and hope they can trust him. Good luck with that.

everyone should have built a relationship with at least one local attorney

 

[jon_berzerk]

to confront someone trying to break and enter at 4 in the morning

If you are in fear of your life, you don't CONFRONT THEM. Does this make sense to you?

Hey stupid. What's the alternative? Call the cops? This is detroit.

Hey stupid. What's the alternative? Call the cops? This is detroit.

as of july

the response time was 58 minutes