White man shoots innocent black teen....

[Crackerjack]

Absolutely false. People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened. If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response? Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.

George Zimmerman ≠ police officer.

indeed.

LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply. If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone. With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.

You try that sort of thing in the State of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.

 

[Amelia]

If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.

Uh, no. One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force. Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.

in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.

If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?

 

[Amelia]

George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

"He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

The letter does not provide details about what happened Feb. 26 on a walkway in the gated community where George Zimmerman lives and where Trayvon was visiting. But it does challenge one basic assumption of the family's lawyers: that Zimmerman's intent when he got out of his sport utility vehicle was to confront Trayvon after calling police to report a suspicious person.

"At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

Did Zimmermann's father make his statement before the 911 tapes were released?


Sounds like maybe George lied to Dad and didn't count on the tapes getting out.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005. As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.

deadly force? only to prevent deadly force?

That's been the standard for self defense in most places that follow the English common law for a very long time.

bodily harm? you are using a legal definition of deadly force. Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS that is not what most people mean by deadly force.

all you have to do is explain that you are using a legal definition as opposed to a commonly understood definition.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

"He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

The letter does not provide details about what happened Feb. 26 on a walkway in the gated community where George Zimmerman lives and where Trayvon was visiting. But it does challenge one basic assumption of the family's lawyers: that Zimmerman's intent when he got out of his sport utility vehicle was to confront Trayvon after calling police to report a suspicious person.

"At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

Did Zimmermann's father make his statement before the 911 tapes were released?


Sounds like George lied to Dad and didn't count on the tapes getting out.

you don't get it. the tapes taken out of context mean nothing. what people mean when they use words may differ ... was Zimmerman following the kid in a car?

you only have the tapes? this is why most juries never understand the general public, people like you imagine they know what happens based on little to no evidence

 

[theHawk]

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

George Zimmerman ≠ police officer.

indeed.

LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply. If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone. With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.

You try that sort of thing in the State of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.

Don't have to, it happens quite often around here and the home owners aren't arrested.

 

[bayoubill]

Yes I did listen. He was on the phone with police for quite a long time, giving very long description of what the kid was doing (standing around, looking at houses, looking at him), and giving them detailed description of how to get to their location.

Supposedly there had been some burglaries in the area. Wanna engage in some good ol' fashioned profiling? Look at the photos of the two involved, and tell me who you would consider the biggest threat ...

... a kid walking along, carrying ice tea and candy, or a man sitting in his car and scoping out the neighborhood. Maybe Trayvon thought Zimmerman was up to no good, maybe that is why Trayvon was "looking at him".

external appearances are good enough for me...

jes' look at that guy Zimmerman... his eyes are too close together... plus he's got a sorta Jewish name... what's with that...?! obviously an uber-sneaky wetback...

I say we storm the town and string Zimmerman up from the nearest tree branch...

 

[Emma]

"At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."

Well, we know that's a lie because Zimmerman himself told the dispatcher he was following this kid.

I'm not arguing that Zimmerman is racist, not enough has come out about his background to make that determination, and him being hispanic doesn't preclude him from being racist in any case.

I do think he's a cold-blooded murderer.

we don't know any such things. following in a car or on foot? not following from car? you are misunderstanding you listening to a tape and reading text for being able to state facts.

You hear the door open and the tone alarming as he gets out of the car ... you hear the fat fuck gasping for breath as he goes after this kid ... you hear him TELL the dispatcher he's following him ...

But most of all ... you have him shooting the kid in the grass next to a walkway between a row of townhouses --- no street there, no tire tracks in the grass, just torn up chunks of grass where he wrestled the kid and shot him. So it's pretty damned obvious he did not chase him down in his car.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?

that's just it. you do NOT know that anyone was stalked. and you do not know exactly HOW the lethal confrontation developed. did the young man (no kid) attack the man in the car, or attack the man while the man was on foot?

who says anywhere (link) that the man pulled out the gun before a confrontation developed?

 

[Crackerjack]

LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply. If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone. With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.

You try that sort of thing in the State of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.

Don't have to, it happens quite often around here and the home owners aren't arrested.

Sure it does.

 

[mudwhistle]

But see, the thing I'm still wondering is why the police didn't check the shooter to see if he was impaired (drunk or stoned), as well as why wasn't there a bit more investigation into this?

Never mind the fact that this idiot Zimmerman is still running around free, with no charges filed against him.

Those are very good questions, I bet the guy walks on all charges.

What charges? None have been filed yet.

Why can't we just get along?????

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You hear the door open and the tone alarming as he gets out of the car ... you hear the fat fuck gasping for breath as he goes after this kid ... you hear him TELL the dispatcher he's following him ...

But most of all ... you have him shooting the kid in the grass next to a walkway between a row of townhouses --- no street there, no tire tracks in the grass, just torn up chunks of grass where he wrestled the kid and shot him. So it's pretty damned obvious he did not chase him down in his car.

your idiocy knows no bounds.

we have a eye witness (not the word of god, but...) saying...

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.


George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

 

[Peach]

news reports not telling whole story

true story

yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.

and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.

hello?

neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others

Uh-oh, that doesn't fit the media narrative that he is a gun nut that shot the kid in cold blood.


By the way, was this kid shot in the back or the front? At what range?

that is NOT the media narrative. that is one media narrative. the straight news, never said anything like that. never

**********************************************
VARYING ACCOUNTS FROM VARYING SOURCES. Story remains muddled. Florida's so called "stand your ground" law in the middle. What is straight news? IF the 911 calls are accurate, Zimmerman decided to follow the teenager, what happened after that is unclear. The death of the young man remains; I doubt police on the scene had access to Zimmerman's prior battery charge; probably either dismissed, pled down, or a no contest, withheld ajd. disposal.

 

[bayoubill]

I didn't realize the police were in the habit of granting a mulligan to first-time criminals.

okay... that's a good one...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I wonder what "truth" would have Zimmerman out of his SUV and wrestling with Trayvon..that averts the whole "confronting" thing.

Perhaps Trayvon hook a chain to the SUV so it could follow him..then at the right moment "yanked" the much larger Zimmerman out of the truck.

That might work.

just the facts douchebagh, just the facts

 

[Sallow]

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

George Zimmerman ≠ police officer.

indeed.

LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply. If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone. With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.

You try that sort of thing in the State of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.

Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.

 

[Amelia]

If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?

that's just it. you do NOT know that anyone was stalked. and you do not know exactly HOW the lethal confrontation developed. did the young man (no kid) attack the man in the car, or attack the man while the man was on foot?

who says anywhere (link) that the man pulled out the gun before a confrontation developed?

Zimmerman followed Trayvon in his SUV and then got out and followed him on foot.

 

[Emma]

If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?

that's just it. you do NOT know that anyone was stalked. and you do not know exactly HOW the lethal confrontation developed. did the young man (no kid) attack the man in the car, or attack the man while the man was on foot?

who says anywhere (link) that the man pulled out the gun before a confrontation developed?

Zimmerman admitted following Trayvon. And Trayvon did not attack Zimmerman while Zimmerman was in his car --- that much is clear from the tape.

 

[Peach]

I didn't realize the police were in the habit of granting a mulligan to first-time criminals.

okay... that's a good one...

*************************************************
Florida is a state wherein SECOND Amendment rights are respected, if not ADORED. The shooter claims "self defense". I hope the SA works fast.

 

[theHawk]

LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply. If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone. With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.

You try that sort of thing in the State of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.

Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.

I'm not a Texan, asshole.