While I Support Israel In This War With Hamas

[toomuchtime_]

I don't think it's possible, it will just make it worse. The effects of it (or rather "collateral damage", even if I hate the term) will be so bad that another similar group could easily spring up.

Of course, it's possible and Israel will have to maintain an IDF presence in Gaza after the war, just as it does in Judea and Samaria, to prevent new terrorist groups from organizing. The biggest challenge is the tunnel complex under Gaza city, which uses Gaza City as a human shield, and the main reason is that the hostages are probably being held there.

 

[xyz]

Of course, it's possible and Israel will have to maintain an IDF presence in Gaza after the war, just as it does in Judea and Samaria, to prevent new terrorist groups from organizing. The biggest challenge is the tunnel complex under Gaza city, which uses Gaza City as a human shield, and the main reason is that the hostages are probably being held there.

They are human shields because of how the city and tunnels are built. I don't think it's possible to wipe them all out, and there is no way they can wipe out a substantial portion of Hamas without a civilian death toll in the tens of thousands at least. Plus bombing might not affect the tunnels. A million people is impossible to move fast, especially considering there are old and handicapped people.

Hamas probably has tunnels in other places in Gaza as well.

 

[toomuchtime_]

They are human shields because of how the city and tunnels are built. I don't think it's possible to wipe them all out, and there is no way they can wipe out a substantial portion of Hamas without a civilian death toll in the tens of thousands at least. Plus bombing might not affect the tunnels. A million people is impossible to move fast, especially considering there are old and handicapped people.

Hamas probably has tunnels in other places in Gaza as well.

The tunnels were built under Gaza City precisely to use the people living there are human shields, and you are responding just as Hamas hoped you would. If not for concerns about the hostages, Israel could flood the tunnels with sea water and kill all the terrorists in it. The UN and others who urged the civilians to stay could have had no other reason to do that other than to use the civilians as human shield in the hopes of discouraging Israel from bombing targets in the city. Over 40,000 civilians disregarded the UN's message and left on their own, and if the UN had encouraged more to leave, the death toll among civilians would be much lower.

Israel has no choice but to see this through regardless of civilian casualties because failure to do so would cost the lives the lives of Israeli civilians.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Let it be known I am deeply saddened to know that it is the innocent Palestinians who will have the highest number of deaths

Ok

Let it be known IDGAF

Poke the bull, get the horns.

Next.....

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

When this war is over

So never....

Muslims in the middle east will never join civilization until their own people BEHEAD THE TERRORISTS.....AKA never

 

[xyz]

The tunnels were built under Gaza City precisely to use the people living there are human shields, and you are responding just as Hamas hoped you would. If not for concerns about the hostages, Israel could flood the tunnels with sea water and kill all the terrorists in it. The UN and others who urged the civilians to stay could have had no other reason to do that other than to use the civilians as human shield in the hopes of discouraging Israel from bombing targets in the city. Over 40,000 civilians disregarded the UN's message and left on their own, and if the UN had encouraged more to leave, the death toll among civilians would be much lower.

Israel has no choice but to see this through regardless of civilian casualties because failure to do so would cost the lives the lives of Israeli civilians.

I'm sorry I care for human lives and civilians. I should root for genocide and be cool like you.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I'm sorry I care for human lives and civilians. I should root for genocide and be cool like you.

What you are doing is supporting Hamas, which is committed to a genocide of the Jews, but Israel follows the Laws of Armed Conflict to minimize civilian casualties.

 

[xyz]

What you are doing is supporting Hamas, which is committed to a genocide of the Jews, but Israel follows the Laws of Armed Conflict to minimize civilian casualties.

Now that is the whole point I was making. That Israel has no problem killing 500 or more civilians to possibly get one terrorist.

There is no such thing as the "Laws of Armed Conflict". There is the Geneva Convention.

Israel has already violated the Geneva Convention. These are older articles, and deal with a less escalated time:
What international law says about Israel's planned destruction of Palestinian assailants' homes

What does the law say about the establishment of settlements in occupied territory?

Israel is not a member of the ICC. Which does not mean they cannot be judged by it, but I doubt they will.

Yes, Hamas has violated the Geneva Convention, big time. They are war criminals. But that does not give Israel the right to "humanely" kill many Palestinians babies by bombing for each one that was butchered by Hamas.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Now that is the whole point I was making. That Israel has no problem killing 500 or more civilians to possibly get one terrorist.

There is no such thing as the "Laws of Armed Conflict". There is the Geneva Convention.

Israel has already violated the Geneva Convention. These are older articles, and deal with a less escalated time:
What international law says about Israel's planned destruction of Palestinian assailants' homes

What does the law say about the establishment of settlements in occupied territory?

Israel is not a member of the ICC. Which does not mean they cannot be judged by it, but I doubt they will.

Yes, Hamas has violated the Geneva Convention, big time. They are war criminals. But that does not give Israel the right to "humanely" kill many Palestinians babies by bombing for each one that was butchered by Hamas.

You don't even Know what the Laws of Armed Conflict are, yet you have strong opinions about international law. There is nothing but ignorance, bigotry and deceit in your posts.

 

[xyz]

You don't even Know what the Laws of Armed Conflict are, yet you have strong opinions about international law. There is nothing but ignorance, bigotry and deceit in your posts.

Interesting comment coming from a Jewish supremacist. In the end it doesn't even matter if you are Jewish if you believe a Jewish life is more important than a Palestinian life.

And I have even spread Israeli propaganda, besides you constantly posting I spread Hamas propaganda.

I have said that Hamas committed a war crime with the massacres. I have later found out that there is no verifiable proof that Hamas beheaded babies. There is some film or photos that were supposed shown to journalists, but they did not get a copy to verify their authenticity. Which should definitely be done in the case of a war crimes trial. And this appears to be one of the main reasons the Israeli army gives for the bombings and incursions. I know there are others, but they keep constantly saying this. Although I still think Hamas committed war crimes, even if they did not behead babies.

Plus the number of casualties is unclear. Israel has only given the names of 920 or 930 casualties, not the 1300 or 1400 they claim. Which does not mean they are wrong, but they haven't proved it.

On the other hand, the Palestinian authorities have put out a list of 8000 confirmed deaths, with names and personal identification numbers and everything. This cannot account for the unknown bodies buried under the rubble, so the number is likely a lot higher.

I have even said that it was unclear where the bomb that hit the hospital came from. There is inconclusive proof from either side.

And a very sad thing: Palestinians are writing the names of children and babies on them with magic marker or something, because the Palestinians expect it is possible they could all die in the bombings, and they want the children's memories to remain, along with their names, because children do not have identity cards.

 

[surada]

2.3 million Gaza residents, half of them are children

In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank.

When was the last time the residents of the GAZA got to vote on their leadership? HAMAS is a fearful, violent, terrifying organization who would severely punish and open dissent. But to justify killing hundreds of thousands of children some people say 'the residents should turn in HAMAS.'

Wave them all off - around 1 million children, as potential collateral damage.

Let's just get the facts, before we condemn all Palestinians in the GAZA Strip.

HAMAS is a terrorist organization, holding the Palestinians in the GAZA Strip hostage. Yet some people still want to blame them, in order to justify they all being collateral damage if necessary.

Everything listed above is an undeniable fact. Much based on posts here at usmb. Members are not running away from statements that back it up.

This thread is not supporting HAMAS.

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas - WSJ

www.wsj.com

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

 

[toomuchtime_]

Interesting comment coming from a Jewish supremacist. In the end it doesn't even matter if you ar

Interesting comment coming from a Jewish supremacist. In the end it doesn't even matter if you are Jewish if you believe a Jewish life is more important than a Palestinian life.

And I have even spread Israeli propaganda, besides you constantly posting I spread Hamas propaganda.

I have said that Hamas committed a war crime with the massacres. I have later found out that there is no verifiable proof that Hamas beheaded babies. There is some film or photos that were supposed shown to journalists, but they did not get a copy to verify their authenticity. Which should definitely be done in the case of a war crimes trial. And this appears to be one of the main reasons the Israeli army gives for the bombings and incursions. I know there are others, but they keep constantly saying this. Although I still think Hamas committed war crimes, even if they did not behead babies.

Plus the number of casualties is unclear. Israel has only given the names of 920 or 930 casualties, not the 1300 or 1400 they claim. Which does not mean they are wrong, but they haven't proved it.

On the other hand, the Palestinian authorities have put out a list of 8000 confirmed deaths, with names and personal identification numbers and everything. This cannot account for the unknown bodies buried under the rubble, so the number is likely a lot higher.

I have even said that it was unclear where the bomb that hit the hospital came from. There is inconclusive proof from either side.

And a very sad thing: Palestinians are writing the names of children and babies on them with magic marker or something, because the Palestinians expect it is possible they could all die in the bombings, and they want the children's memories to remain, along with their names, because children do not have identity cards.

There are only two relevant facts: Israel has the right to defend itself and the only way Israel can defend its citizens against Hamas is to destroy Hamas; as long as Israel continues to abide by the Laws of Armed Conflict, it is causing the fewest possible civilian casualties that are consistent with its goal of destroying Hamas.

 

[xyz]

There are only two relevant facts: Israel has the right to defend itself and the only way Israel can defend its citizens against Hamas is to destroy Hamas; as long as Israel continues to abide by the Laws of Armed Conflict, it is causing the fewest possible civilian casualties that are consistent with its goal of destroying Hamas.

I can see why what you wrote would be desirable for Israel, for obvious reasons.

Israel does not have the capability to do this. If they did, then maybe they would even have stopped Hamas's attack on Israel before it even started.

It does not reflect reality. There is no way you can easily evacuate a large area with a million people. Old people, handicapped people cannot be evacuated. And many people would not want to leave for whatever reasons.

There is no safe area in Gaza, even the area near the border with Egypt has been bombed several times and people have died.

You cannot evacuate a hospital. If they wanted to do that, Israel would have to send the Palestinians a couple thousand ambulances, and treat them in Israeli hospitals. Which of course they would never do.

Israel should just send in special forces and not bomb the hospital if they care about human life.

I'll give you this though: if the incursion only takes a couple more days, it could avert a total catastrophe. If it takes 2 months, it's going to be the worst genocide of the 21st century.

 

[surada]

All true. Plus their children are taught at early ages to hate the Israeli's. So sad there has never been any revolt against their leadership by the Palestinians. And soon many many more will die, be injured & homeless for accepting Hamas.

To this day Golda Meir remains right when she said when the Arabs learn to love their own children more than they hate ours, then there will be peace.

Hamas and Israel are on the same side.

Forget Golde Meier's jingles. They are really stupid lies.

 

[MJB12741]

Let us not forget who started this current war before criticizing Israel for its retaliation.

 

[bendog]

Israel supported hamas to oppose the PLO and now they are supporting the PLO to oppose hamas. They aren't going to be satisfied with any government in gaza other than their own.

THAT is undeniably true. But what is also undeniably true is that Hamas came to rule Gaza in a popular vote, and Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel. And no one, besides Israel, is doing anything to remove hamas, which uses civilian Palestinians and Israeli dead bodies like sand bags. Not the UN, not the Saudis, not the UAE or Qatar and certainly not Iran.

 

[bendog]

Hamas and Israel are on the same side.

Forget Golde Meier's jingles. They are really stupid lies.

Hamas and LIkud are on the same side.

 

[MJB12741]

How many thousands of dead Palestinians will it it take for Hamas to release all hostages?

 

[toomuchtime_]

How many thousands of dead Palestinians will it it take for Hamas to release all hostages?

Hamas has made clear it has no interest in the welfare of Palestinian civilians and sees utility in large numbers of dead civilians. My guess is that the hostages are with the Hamas leaders under al Shifa hospital, to be exchanged for the freedom of the Hamas leaders once the IDF has them trapped under the hospital.

 

[bendog]

How many thousands of dead Palestinians will it it take for Hamas to release all hostages?

Imo Hamas has proven they think the Palestinian civilians are sandbags or useful only for propagation. The Arab states kept them all in camps, to appease their own and give them someone to hate more than their own leaders.

Likud has no use at all for them, and W loved him some Likud.

ANd the US lost all influence with Arabs because of W's elective war against an arab state.