Which Republican will defend Hedge fund tax exemptions

[CrusaderFrank]

The whole of the GOP will defend this. After all, these people make huge amounts of money with out creating anything. That is the GOP ideal. Eliminates all those pesky people on the factory floor.

Investors don't create anything? People who fund start-up don't create anything?

Do you know anything besides Carbon credits?

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

What the OP meant to say is undeserved tax break.

 

[Sactowndog]

Are you aware that this tax increase would affect more than just hedge fund managers? Or does your class warfare rhetoric forget the fact that people who make less than $100,000 grand also benefit from this particular tax non exemption?

How so? My understanding this is just an accounting of how Hedge Fund carry is taxed but I am willing to listen.

 

[Sactowndog]

Okay one of the revenue enhancements in the gang of 6 plan rejected by Republicans is related to hedge funds managers.

Currently hedge fund managers get paid two ways. They take a 2% administration fee off the top. This fee is typically taxed as income. The other fee is they charge 20% of profits. This 20% often makes up the bulk of their income. The 20% is taxed at the 15% capital gains rate and not the 33% marginal tax rate for income.

The intent of the reduced capital gains tax is to encourage investors to undertake more risky investments. Hedge fund managers are getting this rate for managing other peoples money not for risking their own.

The House Republicans will preserving the undeserved tax break at any cost. Will any Republican defend this position?

Undeserved? How is getting taxed on Capital Gains undeserved, Komrade?

Nice Komrade comment coming from Hitler Youth. It is undeserved because they haven't risked their own capital. It is nothing more than a bonus they have managed to get categorized for treatment via capital gains by contributions to Boehner and crew.

 

[Jarhead]

I have made money selling a property, and paid the neccessary taxes. I have lost money selling one, also. I paid no taxes, because it was a loss.

How does a millwright own multiple properties?
Seems you do pretty well for yourself..and that is a great thing.
You made money selling a property? Great for you. See? Investments are great when they work out.
You lost money selling a property? Bummer....1 for 2
50% risk

Hmmmm...would you say your risk of getting injured as a millwright is 50%?

Just curious.

 

[Sactowndog]

Do away with the Progressive Tax System. Institute a FAIR FLAT tax system. Everyone pays the exact same rate, no waivers, no exemptions, no loopholes.



Who would be against FAIR?

I don't know the details of FAIR, but on the surface sure sounds good to me.

That might be okay. However to not strike a deal to reform entitlements because you wanted to keep this tax break for hedge fund managers shows how little the House is really interested in addressing the deficit.

 

[kyzr]

Do away with the Progressive Tax System. Institute a FAIR FLAT tax system. Everyone pays the exact same rate, no waivers, no exemptions, no loopholes.

Who would be against FAIR?

I'd be for that if the top 2% who own 90% of everything gave the rest of us 88% so we'd all have the same "fair ownership" value. Until then, they are getting a break only paying 35% instead of 90%.

 

[Zander]

The whole of the GOP will defend this. After all, these people make huge amounts of money with out creating anything. That is the GOP ideal. Eliminates all those pesky people on the factory floor.

"These people" are also known to lose huge amounts of money. Therein lies the "risk".
It's funny- to liberals, there's money and there's not money. It's like the shit grows on trees or it doesn't.

Money trees need water. Sometimes they bear fruit, sometimes they don't.
If I take the risk of planting a money tree that may or may not flourish, I assume a risk. Yet- in the process I still have to hire people up front. I still have to invest money and assemble an infrastructure which is in itself quite expensive.

So what's the big fucking deal?

Every day I go to work, I take the risk of being killed or injured on the job. Look up the risk for millwrights in steel mills. So at any time I could lose my only source of income. But I pay more taxes on that income than the guy that risks only his money, and, maybe, a paper cut.

My heart bleeds, indeed, for your poor 'risk takers'.

I respect people that work in the trades. I did so myself for a very long time. Then one day I decided that I had enough experience and the time was right to start my own company. I risked everything I had to do that; my blood, sweat, tears and hard earned money. I worked 18 hour days on a regular basis to get started and stay viable. I put a lot of people to work because of my hard work and because of the good work of the people that work for me. I pay my people well and they work hard for me. I gladly pay a small fortune in taxes every year. I consider it the price of admission - the price of freedom.

Speaking of freedom, in this country we all have freedom of choice. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to work in a dangerous trade. Are they? Nobody is stopping you from starting your own venture either. Are they? The only person you can really blame (or credit) for your life is looking back at you in the mirror.

If you risk averse, or slow witted and unable to understand how capitalism works, why are you begrudging the work of people who do understand it and are willing to take a risk? You think that a hedge fund manager doesn't work hard for their money? It may look easy, especially for an uninformed person like you, but they've paid the price one way or another, just as you have. You work hard, so do they. The only real difference (outside of the obvious manual vs mental labor component) is they take full advantage of the tax code and political system.

I do the same thing. I have 3 separate corporate entities, a family trust, a charitable remainder trust, and I maximize my tax deductions to the maximum extent legally possible. I don't mind paying taxes, but I have no problem taking advantage of the system to the maximum legally allowable extent.

It is one thing to call for tax reform, I am all for that, but to demonize the wealthy because they have more than you have and are better at taking advantage of the tax laws, is the height of ignorance.

 

[Sactowndog]

If you risk averse, or slow witted and unable to understand how capitalism works, why are you begrudging the work of people who do understand it and are willing to take a risk? You think that a hedge fund manager doesn't work hard for their money? It may look easy, especially for an uninformed person like you, but they've paid the price one way or another, just as you have. You work hard, so do they. The only real difference (outside of the obvious manual vs mental labor component) is they take full advantage of the tax code and political system.

I do the same thing. I have 3 separate corporate entities, a family trust, a charitable remainder trust, and I maximize my tax deductions to the maximum extent legally possible. I don't mind paying taxes, but I have no problem taking advantage of the system to the maximum legally allowable extent.

It is one thing to call for tax reform, I am all for that, but to demonize the wealthy because they have more than you have and are better at taking advantage of the tax laws, is the height of ignorance.

So in this case the hedge fund managers have basically bought an exception that allows the to pay 15% tax when everyone else pays 33% for the same kind of income.

If they were risking their own money as you did in starting your business then they should pay the capital gains rate.

However, in this case, other's are taking the capital gains risk and the hedge fund managers are taking a free ride courtesy of a bought and paid for Republican Party.

Do you really condone this behaviour? It is really dangerously close to facism.

 

[Mr. H.]

That's not my quote.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

That's not my quote.

Over the last month or so, I've seen this misquote occur. Glitch in the page form.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's not my quote.

Over the last month or so, I've seen this misquote occur. Glitch in the page form.

And every time it happens in one of my posts I fix it.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

That's not my quote.

Over the last month or so, I've seen this misquote occur. Glitch in the page form.

And every time it happens in one of my posts I fix it.

ETA: I misunderstood. I thought you were speaking to me. Sorry.

 

[Zander]

So in this case the hedge fund managers have basically bought an exception that allows the to pay 15% tax when everyone else pays 33% for the same kind of income.

If they were risking their own money as you did in starting your business then they should pay the capital gains rate.

However, in this case, other's are taking the capital gains risk and the hedge fund managers are taking a free ride courtesy of a bought and paid for Republican Party.

Do you really condone this behaviour? It is really dangerously close to facism.

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about it. It seems a bit too sweet of a deal. They really should be taxed at capital gains rates not the dividend rates. But our country taxes capital gains way too high- lower it to 20% and we'd see a lot more velocity. (on a side note: I think there should be no tax on dividends. Period. Dividends are taxed twice and that is unfair, imho. )

The Wall street hedge fund managers made campaign contributions and paid lobbyists and got the favorable tax treatment they wanted. That is the way our system works. Labor Unions spend hundreds of millions on campaign contributions and lobbyists to get favorable laws passed for Unions. Do you oppose that ? It ain't a perfect system, but it's what we have to work with.

 

[kyzr]

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about it. It seems a bit too sweet of a deal. They really should be taxed at capital gains rates not the dividend rates. But our country taxes capital gains way too high- lower it to 20% and we'd see a lot more velocity. (on a side note: I think there should be no tax on dividends. Period. Dividends are taxed twice and that is unfair, imho. )

The Wall street hedge fund managers made campaign contributions and paid lobbyists and got the favorable tax treatment they wanted. That is the way our system works. Labor Unions spend hundreds of millions on campaign contributions and lobbyists to get favorable laws passed for Unions. Do you oppose that ? It ain't a perfect system, but it's what we have to work with.

1. dividends need to be taxed as ordinary income. Short-sales and derivatives and commodities, and options need to be taxed at even higher/punitive rates.

2. Hedge fund managers need to be taxed at ordinary income rates. They aren't even investing their own money. PLUS Wall, Street needs to have a transaction tax. The object is to provide long-term capital for companies to use to create jobs.

 

[Zander]

1. dividends need to be taxed as ordinary income. Short-sales and derivatives and commodities, and options need to be taxed at even higher/punitive rates.

2. Hedge fund managers need to be taxed at ordinary income rates. They aren't even investing their own money. PLUS Wall, Street needs to have a transaction tax. The object is to provide long-term capital for companies to use to create jobs.

I disagree. We need more "Velocity" of money. More velocity of money = more economic activity= more economic expansion = more jobs = greater tax base= increased tax revenue. What you are suggesting would slow investment, slow growth, slow innovation, increase dependency.

 

[kyzr]

I disagree. We need more "Velocity" of money. More velocity of money = more economic activity= more economic expansion = more jobs = greater tax base= increased tax revenue. What you are suggesting would slow investment, slow growth, slow innovation, increase dependency.

We disagree. You are 100% right that I want to slow the "velocity" of "investment". I want long-term capital invested, not overseas investment/derivatives/options/commodities/short-sales that raise ZERO capital.

I want a tax system that rewards long-term investment that can raise capital and create jobs, not fast paced computer trades in the global casino. Tax the crap out of anything that doesn't create jobs.

 

[Mr. H.]

That's not my quote.

Over the last month or so, I've seen this misquote occur. Glitch in the page form.

And every time it happens in one of my posts I fix it.

No problem. I'm sort of flattered. O.R. is a smart, alebeit slightly misguided, cookie.

 

[uscitizen]

Risk? I thought TWERP and such took care of most of them?

 

[Sactowndog]

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about it. It seems a bit too sweet of a deal. They really should be taxed at capital gains rates not the dividend rates. But our country taxes capital gains way too high- lower it to 20% and we'd see a lot more velocity. (on a side note: I think there should be no tax on dividends. Period. Dividends are taxed twice and that is unfair, imho. )

The Wall street hedge fund managers made campaign contributions and paid lobbyists and got the favorable tax treatment they wanted. That is the way our system works. Labor Unions spend hundreds of millions on campaign contributions and lobbyists to get favorable laws passed for Unions. Do you oppose that ? It ain't a perfect system, but it's what we have to work with.

You do know that the current capital gains rate is 15% right? It is 5% lower than any other time since WW2.

Labor unions generally are a larger group although at the rate they have been declining you could argue the opposite. At some point you slip from laws to bribary. Again at the point your tax is actully regressive I think you have moved from conservative to facist.

In terms of dividends, I agree but the answer is not to lower the capital gains tax since people can invest anywhere globally. Meaning I could invest overseas, consume government services in the US and not have a dime of taxes go to the govermment to pay for those services. The answer is to lower or eliminate corporate income taxes for US income.