Where did anti-semitism originate from?

[dilloduck]

Nice PLO propaganda site.

Maybe the Arabs should have been nicer to the Israeli army when they were attacking Israel in the wars to drive the Jews into the Med Sea.

Wars are always waged by long accepted gentlemen's rules of warfare so that nobody gets mad or upset.

Some thousands of Israeli's fought 5 large army armies in 1948 and you ask them to be nicer to the countries that fought them to grab the Jewish homeland.

Funny but the Arab armies lost with odds of 20,000 to 1 in their favor. For the Arabs, what a merry mishap.

Hint: Being nicer to those who help Israel may help Israel . When do we get to quit giving you bucks for whatever you do with it?

 

[ajwps]

America's best bet in the middle east, to prevent attacks against her, is probably to not have an opinion at all on it. Just back out all together. Back out, and shut it's mouth. Either the countries will kill themselves, eliminating enemies, or things will naturally develope into something good for the States. It may take some time, but democracy will happen at some point.

MRMarbles parrots what Woodrow Wilson said about America and the war in Europe. If the US stays isolationist, the Europeans can fight it out alone and America will be safe.

But it didn't work out quite that way. The Germans began to attack our merchant ships in the high seas and attacked American assets overseas.

Eventually the isolationist Wilson was forced to declare war against Germany and as the song said, "we won't come back till its over over there."

MrMarbles suggest that magically, after some time, democracy just has to happen at some point.

This is a perfect example of nothing learned from history seemingly results in history repeating itself.

 

[ajwps]

Hint: Being nicer to those who help Israel may help Israel . When do we get to quit giving you bucks for whatever you do with it?

What are you talking about? Israel and Mr. Sharon has already bent over to Mr. Bush and Saudi Arabia for the so called 'disingagement plan' and the Saudi/Bush peace plan. How much nicer do you want Israel to be to America?

When YOU get to stop giving loan guarantees to Israel for whatever Israel does with them, Israel can stop giving America the technology to protect itself from those who find America to be the big Satan.

Maybe you want to be used as a target without a defense shield of the only buffer democracy you have over there.

 

[dilloduck]

MRMarbles parrots what Woodrow Wilson said about America and the war in Europe. If the US stays isolationist, the Europeans can fight it out alone and America will be safe.

But it didn't work out quite that way. The Germans began to attack our merchant ships in the high seas and attacked American assets overseas.

Eventually the isolationist Wilson was forced to declare war against Germany and as the song said, "we won't come back till its over over there."

MrMarbles suggest that magically, after some time, democracy just has to happen at some point.

This is a perfect example of nothing learned from history seemingly results in history repeating itself.

So you need our money,our troops ,our weapons, or what?-----you never say what it is that you want from America !

 

[ajwps]

We need to stay on the offensive in Arab countries that harbor those who would kill us. Israel can defend itself but may not give us the intel we need if we don't support them. They may even have some info they are blackmailing us with so backing out may not be all that easy. It would require bi-partisan support and could cost both parties dearly.

What are the chances Israel does not reciprocate with an exchange of intel and technology with the democracy called America?

Maybe you are suggesting that America can defend itself as it finds that it does not need to protect its ally Israel in the anti-Israel UN votes. You seem to think that America allies itself with Israel for bi-partisan support from Americans.

Where do you get such unrealistic ideas?

 

[ajwps]

So you need our money,our troops ,our weapons, or what?-----you never say what it is that you want from America !

Have you ever heard of a symbiotic relationship. I was not speaking of American troops helping Israeli IDF forces but was speaking of George Bush's pre-emptive strikes against Afghanastan, Sadaam's Iraq and possibilty Iran in the near future. Not to fight the Arabs squatting on Israeli soil.

Why do you think that Israel does not pay these loan guarantees with interest?

Why do you think that Israel needs US troops (never have), American weapons systems that are modified by Israel to be the best in the world, or that Israel tests these weapons systems with Israeli soldiers instead of risking even one American's life.

How many American's heads have been lopped off by those evil Israeli's you despise so much?

 

[dilloduck]

What are the chances Israel does not reciprocate with an exchange of intel and technology with the democracy called America?

Maybe you are suggesting that America can defend itself as it finds that it does not need to protect its ally Israel in the anti-Israel UN votes. You seem to think that America allies itself with Israel for bi-partisan support from Americans.

Where do you get such unrealistic ideas?

I realize you need the UN veto but
are you suggesting that America can't defend it self without Israel?
I'm saying that for the US to withdraw from Israel would take bi partisan support. For only one party to do it would be like Masada.

 

[ajwps]

I realize you need the UN veto but
are you suggesting that America can't defend it self without Israel?
I'm saying that for the US to withdraw from Israel would take bi partisan support. For only one party to do it would be like Masada.

Are you suggesting that America can defend itself without any ally? Why should the US Congress support Israel. The percentage of Jewish American votes are miniscule when compared to the Muslim voters in America. And not to mention the EU nations that support the Islamic destruction of Israel who could be more friendly to the US if only America deserted its Israel ally.

Doesn't make much sense does it?

Maybe its just another of those statistical impossibilities that America votes against is perceived interest to join up with the oil rich Arab countries instead of Israel that only has olive oil.

Can you explain why America and the Congress (minus the US State Dept) continues its support of Israel?

 

[Comrade]

Other posters keep on calling Israel a “democracy”, willfully ignorant that this country keeps millions of arabs crammed in two arab bantustans.

I have no problem calling Isreal a Liberal Democracy.

From the Gay pride parades in their cities to the freely worshipping, equally free and respresentated Arab Muslim minority, and their equal and unhindered right to worship, all not just on paper but in fact a reality in the daily life an Isreali citizen, the similarity between Isreali and American citizens is closer than that shared with any of the mass of Muslim states.

Now, speaking of a people outside of the soveriegn borders of Isreal, without Isreali citizenship, and in fact despising and actively rising up against the very notion of rule by Isreal, there is no possible reason to imagine that extension of such rights is either the role of the Isreali government nor is such a role a mere possibility. One would almost as well blame the US for the lack of human rights in Cuba. Only the most contorted twisting of logic can arrive at this assertion, which of course in this case is unfortunetly a staple of the left. Castro is ultimately not responsible for the treatement and lack of prosperity in his Marxist rule, only the US government. All that blame despite the half-century of missed opportunity to become such an enlightended state. And all the while heavily subsidized by others who are enemies of the US.

Does one blame the state of Cuba on the USA, and by that same logic blame the state of the Palestinians on Isreal? Or does this all seem like tired propaganda, after the second or third time we hear of it?

 

[dilloduck]

I have no problem calling Isreal a Liberal Democracy.

From the Gay pride parades in their cities to the freely worshipping, equally free and respresentated Arab Muslim minority, and their equal and unhindered right to worship, all not just on paper but in fact a reality in the daily life an Isreali citizen, the similarity between Isreali and American citizens is closer than that shared with any of the mass of Muslim states.

Now, speaking of a people outside of the soveriegn borders of Isreal, without Isreali citizenship, and in fact despising and actively rising up against the very notion of rule by Isreal, there is no possible reason to imagine that extension of such rights is either the role of the Isreali government nor is such a role a mere possibility. One would almost as well blame the US for the lack of human rights in Cuba. Only the most contorted twisting of logic can arrive at this assertion, which of course in this case is unfortunetly a staple of the left. Castro is ultimately not responsible for the treatement and lack of prosperity in his Marxist rule, only the US government. All that blame despite the half-century of missed opportunity to become such an enlightended state. And all the while heavily subsidized by others who are enemies of the US.

Does one blame the state of Cuba on the USA, and by that same logic blame the state of the Palestinians on Isreal? Or does this all seem like tired propaganda, after the second or third time we hear of it?

But when the "sovereign borders" and surrounding issues are at question, I think the level of democracy is fair to question.

 

[Comrade]

But when the "sovereign borders" and surrounding issues are at question, I think the level of democracy is fair to question.

Not when actual Isreali citizenship, or effective or accepted rule among those outside it's clearly defined borders, precludes any soveriengty in a real sense.

 

[dilloduck]

But a democracy without a constitution and a judicial system run by rabbinical law?

 

[Comrade]

But a democracy without a constitution and a judicial system run by rabbinical law?

I don't understand, do Arab Isreali's lack equal representation in the government?

Is the government not based upon secular, liberal principles which define liberal democracy at it core?

How is Isreal any different for America in it's use of domestic law in relation to it's own citizens?

 

[ajwps]

But when the "sovereign borders" and surrounding issues are at question, I think the level of democracy is fair to question.

It appears that you have decided, with your own brain, that 'sovereign borders' and 'surrounding issues' are somehow in question.

Democracy is not defined by giving up your own country to satisfy the malicious attempt to murder the democracy and its people.

You have been asked before but fail to give an answer.

Simply put for your understanding, can you show another recognized Country or State established in the land of Israel in which you claim a question of sovereingty or surrounding issues?

 

[ajwps]

But a democracy without a constitution and a judicial system run by rabbinical law?

Do you really believe that ALL DEMOCRATIC countries are based on the American concept of a REPRESENTATIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT?

What is your source for your definition of a democracy without a constitution but with a declaration of independence? A system run by Biblical laws (not rabbincall law) for courts of justice on which the American Constitution uses as its own source by the framers of the US Constitution.

 

[Comrade]

Do you really believe that ALL DEMOCRATIC countries are based on the American concept of a REPRESENTATIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT?

What is your source for your definition of a democracy without a constitution but with a declaration of independence? A system run by Biblical laws (not rabbincall law) for courts of justice on which the American Constitution uses as its own source by the framers of the US Constitution.

ajwps, are you Isreali? If so, can you claim equal representation and the guarantee of civil rights for non-Jewish minorities in Isreal? I guess I hope someone can confirm this before I make up my mind completely.

 

[dilloduck]

When immigration and citizenship is rigidly controlled to ensure a jewish majority I question the nature of that democracy. A few token Arabs in the Knesset is hardly proof of democracy. If you're willing to admit that it is a democracy for Jews only, I might buy it.

 

[Annie]

I don't understand, do Arab Isreali's lack equal representation in the government?

Is the government not based upon secular, liberal principles which define liberal democracy at it core?

How is Isreal any different for America in it's use of domestic law in relation to it's own citizens?

I found this: http://www.bicom.org.uk/faqs_Arabcitizens.html

 

[Comrade]

When immigration and citizenship is rigidly controlled to ensure a jewish majority I question the nature of that democracy. A few token Arabs in the Knesset is hardly proof of democracy. If you're willing to admit that it is a democracy for Jews only, I might buy it.

Well let's first define the threshold for you personally, to establish a democracy.

Does the fact that the US bans several nationalities from immigration outright, and otherwise creates more difficulties for some in obtaining eventual citizenship, in any way at all dispute that those rights granted upon citizens, are not in fact full and equal? In other words, is it our job to "democratically" adopt new immigrants by the numbers? Why should we?

Does the fact that a large minority of blacks and hispanic, atheists and Muslims, are all underrepresented in the government itself by any comparable statistics, serve to also dispute the validity of American democracy?

Since equal representation in America has resulted in a situation where every President in US history has been a White Male Christian, and every Isreali leader a White Jew, does that indicate a fundamental problem in democracy? If you ask me, that's just plain old simple math!

And if immigration policy is to continue for the sole sake of obtaining a majority of Arabs to Isreal, or let's say Chinese atheists to America, just to prove it's "fair" to Arab Muslims and Chinese atheists, until both get a majority and establish a majority rule, why would that be according to the democratic wishes of the current majority at all?

Such actions you wish for Isreal, not to prefer Jews to immigrate, are in fact a complete violation of the democratic process, where the majority rule prevails. That's the fundamental definition of Democracy.

 

[ajwps]

ajwps, are you Isreali? If so, can you claim equal representation and the guarantee of civil rights for non-Jewish minorities in Isreal? I guess I hope someone can confirm this before I make up my mind completely.

Comrad I am not currently an Israeli citizen. I cannot claim anything about equal representation or guarantees of civil rights for criminals, dissenters or murderers even in the United States.

Here in the US, guarantees of equal reprensentation and civil rights seemed to be based more on one's wealth than upon giving everyone arrested their Miranda rights.

Money buys the best legal teams and poverty buys the best overloaded public defenders a city can afford. Israel is in effect no different than the United States or any other democracy when it comes to civil rights and equal representation being guaranteed.