Where did anti-semitism originate from?

[ajwps]

When immigration and citizenship is rigidly controlled to ensure a jewish majority I question the nature of that democracy. A few token Arabs in the Knesset is hardly proof of democracy. If you're willing to admit that it is a democracy for Jews only, I might buy it.

Question: What is the US policy on limiting immigration of any nationality for US citizenship? Does this put US democracy in question?

Does the US have different immigration levels for people of white and educated countries vs the opposite?

You would buy anything that agrees with your twisted opinion. You forgot to say a 'few token Arabs' voted on by Israeli and Arab citizens who represent the ratio of Arab citizens living in Israel.

How many Zoriastrians or Hindus are US Senators or Congressmen. Does this fact refute US democracy?

 

[dilloduck]

http://www.nccg.org/ezion_geber/judaism3.html

 

[ajwps]

I found this: http://www.bicom.org.uk/faqs_Arabcitizens.html

Great site Kathianne. Unfortunately Dilloduck doesn't buy the facts on this site as they do not agree with his personal opinions instead of reality on the ground in Isreal.

 

[Comrade]

I found this: http://www.bicom.org.uk/faqs_Arabcitizens.html

That's good enough for me, thanks!

 

[Annie]

That's good enough for me, thanks!

Welcome! If I could just make a living looking stuff up! :cof:

 

[ajwps]

http://www.nccg.org/ezion_geber/judaism3.html

This site is one person's home web site based on his own propaganda and not based on any real fact or evidence. I love the ole time gospel music in the background.

http://nccg.org/

We have now been without a regular income since 19 March 2004 when the government cancelled my pension owing to a legal loophole...

Very good Dilloduck. In a few minutes I can create my own website proving that you are from the planet Uranus. I can even produce signed documentation to this fact.

 

[dilloduck]

Well let's first define the threshold for you personally, to establish a democracy.

Does the fact that the US bans several nationalities from immigration outright, and otherwise creates more difficulties for some in obtaining eventual citizenship, in any way at all dispute that those rights granted upon citizens, are not in fact full and equal? In other words, is it our job to "democratically" adopt new immigrants by the numbers? Why should we?

Does the fact that a large minority of blacks and hispanic, atheists and Muslims, are all underrepresented in the government itself by any comparable statistics, serve to also dispute the validity of American democracy?

Since equal representation in America has resulted in a situation where every President in US history has been a White Male Christian, and every Isreali leader a White Jew, does that indicate a fundamental problem in democracy? If you ask me, that's just plain old simple math!

And if immigration policy is to continue for the sole sake of obtaining a majority of Arabs to Isreal, or let's say Chinese atheists to America, just to prove it's "fair" to Arab Muslims and Chinese atheists, until both get a majority and establish a majority rule, why would that be according to the democratic wishes of the current majority at all?

Such actions you wish for Isreal, not to prefer Jews to immigrate, are in fact a complete violation of the democratic process, where the majority rule prevails. That's the fundamental definition of Democracy.

We're not talking about immigrants here----we're talking about people who want to go back home and the Israelis won't let them. If they could go home they could vote !

 

[ajwps]

We're not talking about immigrants here----we're talking about people who want to go back home and the Israelis won't let them. If they could go home they could vote !

Your not talking about immigrants here? Your talking about people who want to go back home. What home, what country, what State or land was theirs when they left it at the orders of the Grand Mufti (Grand Lizard) before Israel was attacked in 1948.

Why doesn't the US allow all the Mexicans to return to the Southwestern States? After all this WAS THERE HOME at one time.

What kind of Democracy are you talking about?

 

[dilloduck]

Kathianne--did you read the mission statement of the site you posted?
Our Mission Statement
BICOM's objective is, over time, to bring about a significant shift in opinion in favour of Israel amongst the general public, opinion-formers and the Jewish community.

 

[Annie]

Kathianne--did you read the mission statement of the site you posted?
Our Mission Statement
BICOM's objective is, over time, to bring about a significant shift in opinion in favour of Israel amongst the general public, opinion-formers and the Jewish community.

Actually Dillo, just was trying to find something that discussed. Shouldn't be a problem for finding other info.

 

[ajwps]

Kathianne--did you read the mission statement of the site you posted?
Our Mission Statement
BICOM's objective is, over time, to bring about a significant shift in opinion in favour of Israel amongst the general public, opinion-formers and the Jewish community.

Does their mission statement nullify the validity and proveabilty of the facts they posted.

Do you have your aluminum thinking cap on again today.

 

[dilloduck]

Your not talking about immigrants here? Your talking about people who want to go back home. What home, what country, what State or land was theirs when they left it at the orders of the Grand Mufti (Grand Lizard) before Israel was attacked in 1948.

Why doesn't the US allow all the Mexicans to return to the Southwestern States? After all this WAS THERE HOME at one time.

What kind of Democracy are you talking about?

An open democracy---hispanics and blacks are becoming a more powerful voting bloc. Hispanics at a much faster rate. Why? Because we allow them to immigrate and higher birthrates.

 

[José]

Comrade
Now, speaking of a people outside of the soveriegn borders of Isreal, without Isreali citizenship,

Victims of ethnic cleasing ARE SUPPOSED TO BE “outside of the soveregn borders of Israel, without Israeli citizenship”, otherwise they wouldn’t be VICTIMS OF ETHNIC CLEASING. LOL

Comrade
there is no possible reason to imagine that extension of such rights is either the role of the Isreali government nor is such a role a mere possibility. One would almost as well blame the US for the lack of human rights in Cuba. Only the most contorted twisting of logic can arrive at this assertion,
Does one blame the state of Cuba on the USA, and by that same logic blame the state of the Palestinians on Isreal?

The population of cuba were not expelled from the US after having lived there for hundreds if not thousands of years, THE ARAB POPULATION OF PALESTINE WAS. So much for “twisting of logic”.

Comrade
And if immigration policy is to continue for the sole sake of obtaining a majority of Arabs to Isreal,
ajwps
Question: What is the US policy on limiting immigration of any nationality for US citizenship? Does this put US democracy in question?

Everybody... repeat after Uncle Joe again (you already know, a delicious lollipop awaits you if you say it properly):

Right of return of refugees IS NOT THE SAME THING as immigration.

International law and common morality tell us that these refugees have the right to return and as long as they are prevented from doing so, Israel can’t be considered a democracy, only a jewish racial dictatorship imposed by the jewish leaders of Israel, more or less like SA under apartheid was an africaner racial dictatorship.

Israel denies these people their right to live in their ancestral home and deny them their civil rights, so Israel qualifies for the title of dictatorship in the same way Iraq under Hussein did.

The only thing that prevents americans from realising this fact is that they have fell in love with this racial dictatorship.

Comrade
which of course in this case is unfortunetly a staple of the left

Unfortunately most people in this particular moment in history are still stuck in a Cold War mentality, when right and left still made sense.

If you had read my last post more carefully you would see I dont qualify for the label. I have been to several Arab chats where I strongly criticize the dictatorial nature of Arab governments.

I have no problem recognising that most arab countries have authoritarian governments and should all be dismantled and replaced by representative democracies.

You are the one who fell in love with Israel and keeping calling this racial dictatorship a “democracy”.

Let’s face it, politics in the Middle East looks like a nightmare and Israel is PART of this nightmare not the exception.

 

[José]

The constitution of the US:

WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Israel’s declaration of independence:

"We declare that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the JEWISH STATE, to be called 'Israel.'"

WE THE PEOPLE VS WE THE JEWS

 

[José]

we the people vs we the jews

Civic state is the idea behind America. It’s the idea that the only source that can confer legitimacy to a state is the people who, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, freely express their will and consent to be governed by the state. All the members of a civic state are equal citizens and equal before the law. The elements that unite the members of a civic state are not only language, traditions, but mainly citizenship, civil rights and legal codes shared by all members of the state.

Ethnic state is the idea behind Israel. It’s the idea that states can only gain legitimacy when they are based on ethnic identity. The state and its legal system must reflect the tribal values of the official ethnicity like language, religion, customs and traditions. Official ethnicity rules the state and civil rights are denied to individuals who were victims of racial persecution(ethnic cleasing).

The modern civic state was conceived by french and english intelectuals, who were tired of seeing religion and political absolutism causing wars and misrule in their countries. Although there were grave racial, gender and social inequalities on the earlier US legal documents, the “core” of the american legal system was, since 1790, firmly established on civic grounds, just like the core of the israeli legal system is firmly grounded in race.. America remains the best implementation of the ideals of the Enlightenment.

These ideals were magnificently expressed in the american Constitution, we the people, not a race, not an ethnicity, not a religion...just the citizens of America.

Even countries that were formed along ethnic (national) lines like Poland, Ukraine etc must make every effort to become CIVIC STATES, states that regard all the ethnic groups who have a historical presence there as citizens, not as members of a given ethnicity.

The moral conscience of mankind urges all states to renounce any legalised racial identity that results in racial discrimination and become CIVIC states, states of citizens just like America.

we the people vs we the jews

When you support Israel, you are betraying the ideals of America.

 

[José]

Let’s be absolutly clear about one thing:

When posters like myself and r2200t criticise Israel we are speaking for Thomas Jefferson, we are speaking for the values of America.

When people support Israel here they are speaking for Adolf Hitler, for Pieter Botha (last leader of SA under apartheid), they are speaking for the values of nazi Germany.

This is not a question about the values of the “right” versus the values of the “left”.

This is a question about the values of America versus the values of Nazi Germany.

 

[ajwps]

The constitution of the US:

WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Israel’s declaration of independence:

"We declare that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the JEWISH STATE, to be called 'Israel.'"

WE THE PEOPLE VS WE THE JEWS

You seem to be under the impression that Israel is a suburb of the USA and its Framer's Constitution. The framers of the US Constitution may have borrowed their concepts of equality and liberty from the Hebrew bible, but that does not put Israel under the thumb of America.

You compare one democratic countries Constitution with all that is fair to you and your ilk with another democratic country that declares itself a haven from the murderous attacks its people have suffered for millinea.

Israel is not the United States nor its protectorate. Israel did not listen to the United States nor take direction to attack Iraq in 1971 to destroy Sadaams nuclear facility.

France, German, Russian, nor Portugal takes orders from George Bush or his administration. Israel established itself as an independent Jewish state country. That was their unalienable rights as a free people.

Sometimes you should compare apples to oranges and think that they are the same.

 

[Annie]

Let’s be absolutly clear about one thing:

When posters like myself and r2200t criticise Israel we are speaking for Thomas Jefferson, we are speaking for the values of America.

When people support Israel here they are speaking for Adolf Hitler, for Pieter Botha (last leader of SA under apartheid), they are speaking for the values of nazi Germany.

This is not a question about the values of the “right” versus the values of the “left”.

This is a question about the values of America versus the values of Nazi Germany.

Wow that's cool. Didn't know Jefferson needed clarvoyence, but what the hell. We are possessed anywho....

 

[ajwps]

Let’s be absolutly clear about one thing:

When posters like myself and r2200t criticise Israel we are speaking for Thomas Jefferson, we are speaking for the values of America.

YOU ARE? So Thomas Jefferson criticized Israel did he? So America as a whole is critisizing Israel as by your own words? You are a Muslim terrorist laugh riot.

When people support Israel here they are speaking for Adolf Hitler, for Pieter Botha (last leader of SA under apartheid), they are speaking for the values of nazi Germany.

WOOW.... I am impressed with your self righteousness and brilliant understanding of a country you know absolutely nothing about.

This is not a question about the values of the “right” versus the values of the “left”. This is a question about the values of America versus the values of Nazi Germany.

What would a simple Muslim know about Nazi Germany except that they partnered with your Grand Mufti (Lizard) in attempting to eradicate the Jewish people and then the human race.

You are the modern version of the maniac Hitler and his desire to destroy Israel and the Jewish people who he and you fear so very much. Allah is a rock god who sits gathering dust in a Cairo museum.

Your hateful outbursts of pure fantasy are a refreshing addition to a very serious discussion about reality. Keep it up. Your are giving everybody a big laugh.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Jose Muhammad

Victims of ethnic cleasing ARE SUPPOSED TO BE “outside of the soveregn borders of Israel, without Israeli citizenship”, otherwise they wouldn’t be VICTIMS OF ETHNIC CLEASING. LOL

Do you mean every Arab in the entire world outside of Israel are vicitims of ethnic cleansing? Do you think that Arabs who have never stepped foot in Israel have a right to be citizens of Israel and are thereby VICTIMS of Israel? Your intellect must be way off the scales. How can you IQ be measured without some form of pointed aluminum hat that keeps Martians from steeling your valuable brain waves?

The population of cuba were not expelled from the US after having lived there for hundreds if not thousands of years, THE ARAB POPULATION OF PALESTINE WAS. So much for “twisting of logic”.

Sorry but Comrad was not comparing expelling anybody from anywhere. You'r intellect is showing again.

He was comparing the fact that the United States is not to blame for the missery and lack of human rights of Cubans while the blame rests on Castro and the blame for the suffereing and plight of the Arabs on Israel when the blame rests on their brother Arabs. But this type of analogy is way above your level of intelligence. Don't try to understand that everything is not about being expelled for that event has not happened as yet. When Israel transfers or expells all the Arabs from their land, then you can complain to the World Court at the Hague.

Question: What is the US policy on limiting immigration of any nationality for US citizenship? Does this put US democracy in question?

Everybody... repeat after Uncle Joe again (you already know, a delicious lollipop awaits you if you say it properly): Right of return of refugees IS NOT THE SAME THING as immigration.

Immigration of foreign alliens has nothing to do with return of people who voluntarily left a country to avoid being in the way of the surrounding Arab countries so that they would not be hindered in destroying the Jewish people of Israel. Any Arab who left Israel in past times has no right to immigrate to Israel and are not considered to be citizens of a country they no longer posses.

International law and common morality tell us that these refugees have the right to return and as long as they are prevented from doing so, Israel can’t be considered a democracy, only a jewish racial dictatorship imposed by the jewish leaders of Israel, more or less like SA under apartheid was an africaner racial dictatorship.

What tells you anything? What International Law or unknown common morality gives the right of any aliens to enter another people country in order to destroy the people of that land? Who do you think you are attempting to fool. You are doing nothing but exposing your imbecile status. The inheriters of the white African apartheid state is now a friend of Russia and hates Israel. Do you think everybody is STUPID?????

Israel denies these people their right to live in their ancestral home and deny them their civil rights, so Israel qualifies for the title of dictatorship in the same way Iraq under Hussein did.

The same old lies and distortions no longer fool anyone with these tired old propaganda fabrications. Again and Again and Again, you and your rag head nomads have never had any ancesteral right to Israel and so Israel qualities for a democracy. Maybe you would like to see a real Israel dictatorship which would turn your Arabs and their villages and towns into a black-top parking lot and shopping centers for new Israeli suburbs? That would please you to no end because then you would have something to take to the UN for a resolution or two.

The only thing that prevents americans from realising this fact is that they have fell in love with this racial dictatorship.

So you now accuse those Americans who ally themselves with Israel as a love object for America. Your statement should be popular with us Americans as you claim that Americans typically fall in love with dicatators like Sadaam, Ho Chi Minh, Joe Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Arafat, Castro, Pol Pot and others. Maybe you can get the American people of their folly of loving those that history has taken them to wars. WHY SHOULD AMERICA LOVES THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11 AND THE TERROR AROUND THE WORLD?

Unfortunately most people in this particular moment in history are still stuck in a Cold War mentality, when right and left still made sense. If you had read my last post more carefully you would see I dont qualify for the label. I have been to several Arab chats where I strongly criticize the dictatorial nature of Arab governments. I have no problem recognising that most arab countries have authoritarian governments and should all be dismantled and replaced by representative democracies.

Well why are you wasting your time with Americans and Israelis? You should be out there criticizing those dictatorial nature of the Arab governments. You should be dismantling and replacing the them with representative democracies.

After you have finished, then you can come and try the same with America and Israel. Until then get yourself a very high, hot and hell-of-a-lot soap enema. It will take the pressure off of your brain.

You are the one who fell in love with Israel and keeping calling this racial dictatorship a “democracy”.

Well I did fall in love with my country America and understand Israel's dilemma with the Arabs but I have been in Israel. The Arabs I found living there never told me about the government of Israel being a dictatorship.

I saw nothing of a typical dictatorship in Israel or with the freedom and joy of all the Arabs who live within Israel. Those Arabs who live on Israel territory in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank think they they are going to Muhammad and paradise so they kill their children to satisfy the lusts of their god Allah.

Let’s face it, politics in the Middle East looks like a nightmare and Israel is PART of this nightmare not the exception.

What makes you think this to be the case. You are like the Arab nutcases who believe this bull crap.