When man tells God, you can't....

[toobfreak]

I grew up in an ultra religious family and went to church at least twice a week

OUCH. I feel sorry for you.

It's not like I have no idea what faith is. Faith was just not enough

I don't believe in faith. I have no faith in faith. It annoys me the idea of trusting something "on faith" that you just don't really know. I've heard of too many people "losing faith" after a lifetime of having it.

I was an athiest. I was a pure scientist. Then one day I had direct experience thrust upon me because I was actually open to the possibilities and had a sincere desire to know how it really was. Once you have that happen to you, there is no denying it, no going back. Things like suffering, etc., become easy to understand. Man is the cause of his own suffering. That's all.

Where man is apart from God, there is suffering. Where there is God, nothing you can do to the body matters. Disease, death, it is all an illusion. The lit soul knows no suffering.

Jesus suffered on the cross and HE was GOD. No one could have done all the miracles HE did and not be. And what is wrong with attending CHURCH more than one a week? I know people who go to the bar every night, and I cannot say it does them any good.

Jesus was the son of God. God worked through him. Big difference.

Go to church or the bar as often as you want. It's not the going that does you any harm or good, it is what is in your heart.

 

[LittleNipper]

I grew up in an ultra religious family and went to church at least twice a week

OUCH. I feel sorry for you.

It's not like I have no idea what faith is. Faith was just not enough

I don't believe in faith. I have no faith in faith. It annoys me the idea of trusting something "on faith" that you just don't really know. I've heard of too many people "losing faith" after a lifetime of having it.

I was an athiest. I was a pure scientist. Then one day I had direct experience thrust upon me because I was actually open to the possibilities and had a sincere desire to know how it really was. Once you have that happen to you, there is no denying it, no going back. Things like suffering, etc., become easy to understand. Man is the cause of his own suffering. That's all.

Where man is apart from God, there is suffering. Where there is God, nothing you can do to the body matters. Disease, death, it is all an illusion. The lit soul knows no suffering.

Jesus suffered on the cross and HE was GOD. No one could have done all the miracles HE did and not be. And what is wrong with attending CHURCH more than one a week? I know people who go to the bar every night, and I cannot say it does them any good.

Jesus was the son of God. God worked through him. Big difference.

Go to church or the bar as often as you want. It's not the going that does you any harm or good, it is what is in your heart.

I would say exactly what Thomas the twin said, "My LORD and my GOD!"

 

[konradv]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

 

[BreezeWood]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

.
there would always be room for improvement even with perfection there is no original sin just sins that may be commuted before the knowledge to not do so has come to fore to simply stop a bad habit.

 

[ding]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly?

I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

 

[konradv]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

 

[ding]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

 

[22lcidw]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

We have people promoting imperfection. Humans do not need that encouragement. The congress man who just died and was supposedly a Preacher did just that.

 

[LittleNipper]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

GOD created with the full knowledge of what would eventually happen. This is all I can agree to. Perfection doesn't negate choice nor the ramifications of the said choice made.

 

[LittleNipper]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

 

[ding]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

 

[BreezeWood]

all beings on planet Earth are left to fend for themselves and as the religion for their existence from the beginning to prosper indefinitely is to collectively insure the greater good for all - the maitenace of Garden Earth.

or as humanity is proving through misguidance and fallacies their false religions the undoing of the planet itself against everything involved that gave them their existence. the original purity of Earths environment.

the tangible religion becomes more important than anything supernatural in all practical matters where humanity has only a limited amount of time left to bring to fruition.

 

[LittleNipper]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

 

[LittleNipper]

all beings on planet Earth are left to fend for themselves and as the religion for their existence from the beginning to prosper indefinitely is to collectively insure the greater good for all - the maitenace of Garden Earth.

or as humanity is proving through misguidance and fallacies their false religions the undoing of the planet itself against everything involved that gave them their existence. the original purity of Earths environment.

the tangible religion becomes more important than anything supernatural in all practical matters where humanity has only a limited amount of time left to bring to fruition.

2 Corinthians 9:15 - Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! Ephesians 2:8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

Salvation is a gift and it is not earned; however, it must be ACCEPTED through faith.

 

[ding]

all beings on planet Earth are left to fend for themselves and as the religion for their existence from the beginning to prosper indefinitely is to collectively insure the greater good for all - the maitenace of Garden Earth.

or as humanity is proving through misguidance and fallacies their false religions the undoing of the planet itself against everything involved that gave them their existence. the original purity of Earths environment.

the tangible religion becomes more important than anything supernatural in all practical matters where humanity has only a limited amount of time left to bring to fruition.

You still aren't making any sense.

 

[ding]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

It's effectively Jewish mythology which address the origin questions. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. The original meanings were lost through time.

 

[LittleNipper]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

It's effectively Jewish mythology which address the origin questions. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. The original meanings were lost through time.

GOD is not dead nor does HE sleep. The Holy Spirit brings to the redeemed who prayerfully study GOD's Word its interpretation. GOD's Holy Word was transmitted through the Nation of Israel (GOD's Chosen people through which the MESSIAH would come) by GOD.

 

[BreezeWood]

all beings on planet Earth are left to fend for themselves and as the religion for their existence from the beginning to prosper indefinitely is to collectively insure the greater good for all - the maitenace of Garden Earth.

or as humanity is proving through misguidance and fallacies their false religions the undoing of the planet itself against everything involved that gave them their existence. the original purity of Earths environment.

the tangible religion becomes more important than anything supernatural in all practical matters where humanity has only a limited amount of time left to bring to fruition.

2 Corinthians 9:15 - Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! Ephesians 2:8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

Salvation is a gift and it is not earned; however, it must be ACCEPTED through faith.

2 Corinthians 9:15 - Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! Ephesians 2:8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

Salvation is a gift and it is not earned; however, it must be ACCEPTED through faith.

.
no nipper, life is a quest not a salvation.

the spoken religion of antiquity is not burdened by your book of forgeries and fallacies - form the beginning origin to the present all beings must strive as prescribed to triumph in their spiritual pursuit for them to be judged for admission into the Everlasting - or simply perish. to attain the required state of purity to exist freely in the universe.

 

[ding]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

It's effectively Jewish mythology which address the origin questions. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. The original meanings were lost through time.

GOD is not dead nor does HE sleep. The Holy Spirit brings to the redeemed who prayerfully study GOD's Word its interpretation. GOD's Holy Word was transmitted through the Nation of Israel (GOD's Chosen people through which the MESSIAH would come) by GOD.

Ok.

 

[LittleNipper]

all beings on planet Earth are left to fend for themselves and as the religion for their existence from the beginning to prosper indefinitely is to collectively insure the greater good for all - the maitenace of Garden Earth.

or as humanity is proving through misguidance and fallacies their false religions the undoing of the planet itself against everything involved that gave them their existence. the original purity of Earths environment.

the tangible religion becomes more important than anything supernatural in all practical matters where humanity has only a limited amount of time left to bring to fruition.

2 Corinthians 9:15 - Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! Ephesians 2:8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

Salvation is a gift and it is not earned; however, it must be ACCEPTED through faith.

2 Corinthians 9:15 - Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! Ephesians 2:8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

Salvation is a gift and it is not earned; however, it must be ACCEPTED through faith.

.
no nipper, life is a quest not a salvation.

the spoken religion of antiquity is not burdened by your book of forgeries and fallacies - form the beginning origin to the present all beings must strive as prescribed to triumph in their spiritual pursuit for them to be judged for admission into the Everlasting - or simply perish. to attain the required state of purity to exist freely in the universe.

Who told you this, or is it something you imagined?