When it is really a heartbeat.

[RetiredGySgt]

This whole debate centres around religion and nothing else. Godbotherers are hypocrites when they say they are pro life. They are in fact pro birth.
So long as gods wishes, as per their divine instructions they received person ally from God, and the child is born, their job is done.
After the child is born into a life of poverty and the mother is on ss, they spend their time persecuting her because she's not a good parent. Never enters their head it could have all been avoided but for their silly religion. There in lies the hypocrisy of the sanctamonious pompous hypocritical arseholes.

Ya I mean with that sort of thinking, you must want the elderly put down and of course the mentally ill and homeless. I mean why stop at just killing kids to "protect" them from POTENTIAL future hardship?

 

[TemplarKormac]

So no proof that a heart exists? A few fluctuating cells that will eventually become part of a heart is not a heart.

Then you know nothing of science, compared to the people and studies I cited.

Take your ignorance of human biology and go.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Didn't read the link, did you? The heart structures, muscle, chambers, valves, etc develop over a 4 day period starting on day 124.

Myocardial cells are the beginning of that muscle structure, idiot. Those cells begin contracting as they develop, soon forming the actual muscle structure of the heart.

As I said, you know absolutely nothing. You set your own criteria of what a human being is supposed to be, and you failed miserably.

Additionally, and simplistically speaking, when the heart stops, you are dead. When it starts, you are life. That essentially means when the first myocardial cells form and begin contracting enough to be detected by the ultrasound.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No. Those showed only a few fluctuating cells that would eventually become part of a heart.

Common sense and science tell you what those cells will develop into. If they can be identified by accomplished scientists and doctors of the field as the forming fetal heart, then it is the heart. It does not have to become some predetermined shape set by the high and mighty BULLDOG to help the child attain their humanity.

When the heart beats, whether one cell or all that comprise it, it is life. It is human, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.

Period, full stop.

 

[SweetSue92]

Anti-abortion proponents claim that there is a beating heart present at six weeks. The fact is that at six weeks there is only a rudimentary tube that can eventually become a heart, and a few quivering cells that will eventually become the pacemaker which supplies electrical pulses controlling the heart beat. There is no heart structure present to actually behave as a heart behaves. No valves, no chambers, no muscle to pump anything. The preliminary structures that will eventually become parts of the heart are not a heart, and claiming they are is vast exaggeration at best. Recent research has shown when major structures of the heart develop, and it is amazingly over a four day period 124 days into the pregnancy. Before this four day period, the beginnings of the heart are not viable, and can not survive outside the womb.

Researchers and neonatologists studying fetal cardiac development have typically run into critical limitations, as many of the known structures of the human heart can only be identified in the latter stages of gestation. Now, a group of investigators at the University of Leeds has just published data, using cutting-edge imaging technology, that shows that major structures of a baby's heart form in just four days. Findings from the new study—published today in Scientific Reports in an article entitled “Ventricular Myocardium Development and the Role of Connexins in the Human Fetal Heart”—help identify the precise time when the four chambers of the heart develop, opening up the possibility that doctors could eventually be able to monitor babies during this critical phase of their development.

Remarkably, the research team found that the most dramatic changes occurred over a four-day period 124 days into the pregnancy. Within this brief period, the muscle tissue of the heart rapidly organizes. Cardiac fibers were laid down to form the helix shape of the heart, within which the four chambers of the heart form. Without this essential architecture in place, the fetal heart cannot survive outside the womb.

Critical Moment of Fetal Heart Development Identified

The major structures of a baby's heart form in just four days, according to new research using the latest imaging techniques

www.genengnews.com

Abortion is evil

PS I am done arguing with evil; there isn't time and it's too rampant. I'm just calling it out now

 

[Colin norris]

Ya I mean with that sort of thinking, you must want the elderly put down and of course the mentally ill and homeless. I mean why stop at just killing kids to "protect" them from POTENTIAL future hardship?

That's ridiculous. You're probably a godbotherer and attached to that are all the same scenarios where you think what everyone else thinks is wrong be abuse of your hideous bible.

In fact I mentioned the whole debate is based in religion. you know it is and that's why you arced up when I mentioned it.

Why do believers think its their right to take their bible into the wombs of people? It's a type of uterine mafia.
The arrogance of them is breathtaking.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's ridiculous. You're probably a godbotherer and attached to that are all the same scenarios where you think what everyone else thinks is wrong be abuse of your hideous bible.

In fact I mentioned the whole debate is based in religion. you know it is and that's why you arced up when I mentioned it.

Why do believers think its their right to take their bible into the wombs of people? It's a type of uterine mafia.
The arrogance of them is breathtaking.

It is about HUMAN life, I am willing to compromise though. At 20 weeks the baby can live outside the womb. No more abortions after that except for the health of the mother.

 

[Colin norris]

It is about HUMAN life, I am willing to compromise though. At 20 weeks the baby can live outside the womb. No more abortions after that except for the health of the mother.

Compromise all you want. My point us you godbotherers hate everything about abortion. Youre are silly enough to think atheists are all democrats and in favour of it.

Why do you arrogant pompous Jesus junkies want to control every woman's right to freedom? If it was done to you all hell would break lose but you think it is you birth right to control every women.

Do you know religious women have abortions on the same rate as others on as pro rata basis. Arithmetic didn't work and never does. Why don't you do something about them before you attack atheists? It's none if your business what they do.

How about the women who rattle with contraceptives which is against Christian laws but attend church all the same. Wheres your principles on that hypocrisy?

Why are you not concerned about the paedophilia in the church but rail against a scared young girl wanting an abortion?
Where does your priorities lie there?
I'll tell you. You will never take on the church and clergy because you think some silly God will forbid your entry to heaven.
Your principles are that of an alley cat.
The arrogance of you to instruct and attempt to force your religion on others.
You don't have a right to live as a human
being and simultaneously quoting your God us kind and merciful.
You're a full blown 24 carat hypocrit.

 

[BULLDOG]

Then you know nothing of science, compared to the people and studies I cited.

Take your ignorance of human biology and go.

So which ones claimed all those heart structures at six weeks? I must have missed that.

 

[BULLDOG]

Myocardial cells are the beginning of that muscle structure, idiot. Those cells begin contracting as they develop, soon forming the actual muscle structure of the heart.

As I said, you know absolutely nothing. You set your own criteria of what a human being is supposed to be, and you failed miserably.

Additionally, and simplistically speaking, when the heart stops, you are dead. When it starts, you are life. That essentially means when the first myocardial cells form and begin contracting enough to be detected by the ultrasound.

The actual muscle structure of the heart forms starting on day 124. I guess the term soon is subjective.

 

[BULLDOG]

Common sense and science tell you what those cells will develop into. If they can be identified by accomplished scientists and doctors of the field as the forming fetal heart, then it is the heart. It does not have to become some predetermined shape set by the high and mighty BULLDOG to help the child attain their humanity.

When the heart beats, whether one cell or all that comprise it, it is life. It is human, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.

Period, full stop.

Every living cell is life. I'm not arguing that point. When that life becomes a distinct seperate individual is the larger question, and the specific point of this thread is when the heartbeat of that distinct and seperate individule is present. I contend there is no heartbeat before there is a heart. Some preliminary parts that might cause the heart to beat eventually might be present, but there can be no heartbeat until there is a heart.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Compromise all you want. My point us you godbotherers hate everything about abortion. Youre are silly enough to think atheists are all democrats and in favour of it.

Why do you arrogant pompous Jesus junkies want to control every woman's right to freedom? If it was done to you all hell would break lose but you think it is you birth right to control every women.

Do you know religious women have abortions on the same rate as others on as pro rata basis. Arithmetic didn't work and never does. Why don't you do something about them before you attack atheists? It's none if your business what they do.

How about the women who rattle with contraceptives which is against Christian laws but attend church all the same. Wheres your principles on that hypocrisy?

Why are you not concerned about the paedophilia in the church but rail against a scared young girl wanting an abortion?
Where does your priorities lie there?
I'll tell you. You will never take on the church and clergy because you think some silly God will forbid your entry to heaven.
Your principles are that of an alley cat.
The arrogance of you to instruct and attempt to force your religion on others.
You don't have a right to live as a human
being and simultaneously quoting your God us kind and merciful.
You're a full blown 24 carat hypocrit.

As I suspected you think any time is fine for an abortion. You are delusional.

 

[JoeB131]

Stupid or not that’s the law

Stupid laws should not be enforced... and they rarely are.

Of course, if something human stands in the way of your ghoulish ideals, you must strip humanity from it. Because if it isn't human, it isn't legitimately worth caring for, is it?

A woman being able to control her own body is "ghoulish"? Really?

Let's get real, we have millions of children who go to bed hungry at night in this country, because dipshits like you were convinced the rich needed tax cuts more than they needed to get fed.

Your absurd lies about my religion are not at all relevant to this thread.

Then why did you bring up slavery, Mormon Bob?

History of slavery in Utah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

We'll mark you down as another one who doesn't believe in science.

He does beleive he's wearing Magic Underwear, though.

 

[JoeB131]

Abortion is evil

PS I am done arguing with evil; there isn't time and it's too rampant. I'm just calling it out now

Why, because your magic fairy in the sky said so?

Fetuses aren't people, they don't feel pain, they aren't viable and they aren't self-aware.

It would be nice if people used proper birth control so they wouldn't have to resort to abortion.

It would be nice if they didn't smoke, drink, eat fatty foods, sit around in front of the TV all day, or do a dozen other things that aren't good for them.

But end of the day, it's their body, their choice.

 

[JoeB131]

Is God really against Abortion, though?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Stupid laws should not be enforced... and they rarely are.



A woman being able to control her own body is "ghoulish"? Really?

Let's get real, we have millions of children who go to bed hungry at night in this country, because dipshits like you were convinced the rich needed tax cuts more than they needed to get fed.




Then why did you bring up slavery, Mormon Bob?

History of slavery in Utah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I would bet my life that if someone kills a pregnant woman it would be a double homicide. Even if she is one second pregnant. It would 100% be enforced.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I doubt either of us sees that as a possibility.

Again you keep denying what I am stating. If you’re one second pregnant and are killed it is a double homicide. How do you explain that?

 

[BULLDOG]

Again you keep denying what I am stating. If you’re one second pregnant and are killed it is a double homicide. How do you explain that?

I have no need to explain that. That has nothing to do with whether a heart exists.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I have no need to explain that. That has nothing to do with whether a heart exists.

It kills your argument you idiot leftist. The better argument is that pregnancy is a stressful time both on the mind and the body and who am I as a man to tell a woman that she has to put her body through that. Your retarded heartbeat argument is at best asinine.