What's always missing in the "gun debate"

[Rustic]

That's not how it works, Gomer....You back up your claims...You don't get to play Yogi Berra and say "you can look it up".

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

lol I'm sure this wasn't your original source, but if you looked at the numbers violent crimes were much lower and then spiked for a few years in the early 1990's, so the long term trend was already down. This is why the article I posted stated that the Brady law did nothing.

I don't see any other 4 point drops in less than a decade.

Look back to the 1980's; murders and violent crimes were much lower and we have no idea why they spiked in the early 1990's so we have no idea why they went later.

I did. 1980: 10.2
1992: 9.3
Brady bill Passes
2000: 5.5

Lol
The Brady bill was shit canned, deservedly so you silly little fucker

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, crime and gun crime went up after 2015 after the Ferguson Effect kicked in. Police got disgusted putting extra effort into getting criminals off the street when the public turns against them all the time, thanks to the MSM.

However the Ferguson Effect is slowly starting to dwindle, and our gun crime is now back on track to going lower again.

Ferguson was because we have too many guns. Cops don't shoot lots of people in countries with strong gun control.

What does Ferguson have to do with too many guns? We had the same amount of guns before Ferguson as after.

Considering we are a population of 320 million people, cops don't shoot a lot of people here either. Like citizens, they are allowed to use deadly force provided their safety or life is in jeopardy. If you don't put an officers life or health in jeopardy, you won't get shot.

Ferguson happened because we have too many guns. Because we have too many guns our law enforcement shoot a lot of people. Because law enforcement shoot a lot of people we had ferguson.

The rate cops shoot people is way higher than countries with strong gun control.

US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015

We have more violent people here than Germany. They are virtually a single-race country. We are mistakenly a very diverse country.

Cops don't shoot people here because they have more leeway. Read your own article. It clearly states that German police only use deadly force when their safety or life is on the line. We have the same protocol here. Police cannot legally shoot anybody they desire, or for committing any crime.

In Ferguson, the suspect was not armed, so I don't know where you get this "too many guns" thing had anything to do with Ferguson.

Our police are far more likely to be in danger themselves. They are shot and killed at a far higher rate than countries with strong gun control. Because of this they themselves shoot far more people. The people of ferguson were tired of seeing police shoot so many people, so we had ferguson. Too many guns.

It had nothing to do with too many guns. It had to do with a lying media, and the fact lower income people are ignorant of our laws.

Ferguson happened because a high gorilla attacked a police officer not only once, but twice. He obviously couldn't control himself and got shot in the process.

So how many criminals in Germany attack police officers? How many run from them, fight with them, refuse to obey orders?

Most all of our police shootings have one thing in common: the suspect refused to obey the orders of a police officer. So instead of promoting dumb people to obey authority, your solution is to disarm society.

 

[Rustic]

Never happened. Crime was going down before and after the bill.

View attachment 279489

It sure went down after.

I confused the assault weapons ban with the Brady Bill. In any case, the decline is also proportional to states adopting CCW programs and creating law that protected the victim instead of the criminal. Some states had Brady Bills of their own before the federal law, and their conclusion was they didn't do much good in those states.

There was almost no CCW in the 90s. I have noted that violent crime has gone up in recent years with significant increases in CCW.

No, crime and gun crime went up after 2015 after the Ferguson Effect kicked in. Police got disgusted putting extra effort into getting criminals off the street when the public turns against them all the time, thanks to the MSM.

However the Ferguson Effect is slowly starting to dwindle, and our gun crime is now back on track to going lower again.

Ferguson was because we have too many guns. Cops don't shoot lots of people in countries with strong gun control.

Irrelevant

 

[Brain357]

Ferguson was because we have too many guns. Cops don't shoot lots of people in countries with strong gun control.

What does Ferguson have to do with too many guns? We had the same amount of guns before Ferguson as after.

Considering we are a population of 320 million people, cops don't shoot a lot of people here either. Like citizens, they are allowed to use deadly force provided their safety or life is in jeopardy. If you don't put an officers life or health in jeopardy, you won't get shot.

Ferguson happened because we have too many guns. Because we have too many guns our law enforcement shoot a lot of people. Because law enforcement shoot a lot of people we had ferguson.

The rate cops shoot people is way higher than countries with strong gun control.

US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015

We have more violent people here than Germany. They are virtually a single-race country. We are mistakenly a very diverse country.

Cops don't shoot people here because they have more leeway. Read your own article. It clearly states that German police only use deadly force when their safety or life is on the line. We have the same protocol here. Police cannot legally shoot anybody they desire, or for committing any crime.

In Ferguson, the suspect was not armed, so I don't know where you get this "too many guns" thing had anything to do with Ferguson.

Our police are far more likely to be in danger themselves. They are shot and killed at a far higher rate than countries with strong gun control. Because of this they themselves shoot far more people. The people of ferguson were tired of seeing police shoot so many people, so we had ferguson. Too many guns.

It had nothing to do with too many guns. It had to do with a lying media, and the fact lower income people are ignorant of our laws.

Ferguson happened because a high gorilla attacked a police officer not only once, but twice. He obviously couldn't control himself and got shot in the process.

So how many criminals in Germany attack police officers? How many run from them, fight with them, refuse to obey orders?

Most all of our police shootings have one thing in common: the suspect refused to obey the orders of a police officer. So instead of promoting dumb people to obey authority, your solution is to disarm society.

It happened because we have lots of police shootings. We have lots of shootings because we have lots of guns and our police are themselves shot very often.

 

[SAYIT]

It sure went down after.

And a few years before it was even lower, so we don't know why violent crime spiked and we don't know why it dropped.

A few? It started a climb in the 60s. Didn't have a big drop till after the Brady Bill.

The supreme court ruled that in order for a firearm to be protected by the second amendment, it must have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia, in common use of the time, and supplied by the citizen.

So tell me what firearm is there that is in common use that would have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia?
Answer see signature below.

That simply isn't true. In Heller vs. DC, the Court held the right to bear arms was unrelated to serving in a militia.

It's simply is that true. heller reference Miller with the in common use
So tell me what firearm is there that is in common use that would have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia?

According to the opinion, none is needed.

All heller did was expand the courts opinion
It didn't change anything about Miller
Also every able body man and woman are members of the unorganized Militia

Courts sure messed up on Heller. Completely ignore well regulated as if they threw that in for no reason.

They are separate issues. One is the need for "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," and the other is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," each of which "shall not be infringed."

 

[Markle]

Crime sure dropped after the Brady bill. The proof is all around you. The gun lobby just finds new ways to fool people.

Yep, those gun laws are crushing murder and shootings!

6 killed, 28 wounded in Chicago weekend shootings
Victims include a 17-year-old girl who was killed in Back of the Yards on the South Side.

By Sun-Times Wire Sep 9, 2019, 5:54am CDT
6 killed, 28 wounded in Chicago weekend shootings

 

[toomuchtime_]

And a few years before it was even lower, so we don't know why violent crime spiked and we don't know why it dropped.

A few? It started a climb in the 60s. Didn't have a big drop till after the Brady Bill.

That simply isn't true. In Heller vs. DC, the Court held the right to bear arms was unrelated to serving in a militia.

It's simply is that true. heller reference Miller with the in common use
So tell me what firearm is there that is in common use that would have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia?

According to the opinion, none is needed.

All heller did was expand the courts opinion
It didn't change anything about Miller
Also every able body man and woman are members of the unorganized Militia

Courts sure messed up on Heller. Completely ignore well regulated as if they threw that in for no reason.

They are separate issues. One is the need for "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," and the other is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," each of which "shall not be infringed."

In Heller vs. DC both the appeals court and the supreme court ruled that the reference to as well regulated militia meant ordinary usage of guns in those day, and today it means ordinary usage of guns today, which means self defense and other lawful uses.

 

[Rustic]

Probably not many given they rarely show up in crime. But the nuts now act like tyranny will take over if we have any new regulations on semi auto rifles. Well why didn't tyranny take over when we had machine gun regulations? Guns aren't stopping tyranny, we have checks and balances in our government that do that.

You and I both (assuming you can pass a background check, can both, legally, buy and own a machine gun. What is your point?

They are in very limited supply. Point being we had some gun control and tyranny didn't take over. Just like it didn't when they passed the brady bill.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Crime sure dropped after the Brady bill. The proof is all around you. The gun lobby just finds new ways to fool people.

Yep, those gun laws are crushing murder and shootings!

6 killed, 28 wounded in Chicago weekend shootings
Victims include a 17-year-old girl who was killed in Back of the Yards on the South Side.

By Sun-Times Wire Sep 9, 2019, 5:54am CDT
6 killed, 28 wounded in Chicago weekend shootings

That simply can't be. They have some of the toughest gun laws in the country!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What does Ferguson have to do with too many guns? We had the same amount of guns before Ferguson as after.

Considering we are a population of 320 million people, cops don't shoot a lot of people here either. Like citizens, they are allowed to use deadly force provided their safety or life is in jeopardy. If you don't put an officers life or health in jeopardy, you won't get shot.

Ferguson happened because we have too many guns. Because we have too many guns our law enforcement shoot a lot of people. Because law enforcement shoot a lot of people we had ferguson.

The rate cops shoot people is way higher than countries with strong gun control.

US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015

We have more violent people here than Germany. They are virtually a single-race country. We are mistakenly a very diverse country.

Cops don't shoot people here because they have more leeway. Read your own article. It clearly states that German police only use deadly force when their safety or life is on the line. We have the same protocol here. Police cannot legally shoot anybody they desire, or for committing any crime.

In Ferguson, the suspect was not armed, so I don't know where you get this "too many guns" thing had anything to do with Ferguson.

Our police are far more likely to be in danger themselves. They are shot and killed at a far higher rate than countries with strong gun control. Because of this they themselves shoot far more people. The people of ferguson were tired of seeing police shoot so many people, so we had ferguson. Too many guns.

It had nothing to do with too many guns. It had to do with a lying media, and the fact lower income people are ignorant of our laws.

Ferguson happened because a high gorilla attacked a police officer not only once, but twice. He obviously couldn't control himself and got shot in the process.

So how many criminals in Germany attack police officers? How many run from them, fight with them, refuse to obey orders?

Most all of our police shootings have one thing in common: the suspect refused to obey the orders of a police officer. So instead of promoting dumb people to obey authority, your solution is to disarm society.

It happened because we have lots of police shootings. We have lots of shootings because we have lots of guns and our police are themselves shot very often.

Yes they are. And London surpassed NYC murder rate last year, and they did it all with knives. Imagine that!!!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A few? It started a climb in the 60s. Didn't have a big drop till after the Brady Bill.

It's simply is that true. heller reference Miller with the in common use
So tell me what firearm is there that is in common use that would have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia?

According to the opinion, none is needed.

All heller did was expand the courts opinion
It didn't change anything about Miller
Also every able body man and woman are members of the unorganized Militia

Courts sure messed up on Heller. Completely ignore well regulated as if they threw that in for no reason.

Heller changed nothing from Miller

The Supreme Court’s Worst Decision of My Tenure

District of Columbia v. Heller, which recognized an individual right to possess a firearm under the Constitution, is unquestionably the most clearly incorrect decision that the Supreme Court announced during my tenure on the bench.

Again Heller changed nothing from miller
Because in miller the weapon in common use was supplied by the citizen

 

[bigrebnc1775]

All heller did was expand the courts opinion
It didn't change anything about Miller
Also every able body man and woman are members of the unorganized Militia

Should then there be AN problem for anyone carrying an AR 15 from sitting at the SCOTUS chamber during deliberation???

Should people try to refrain from pulling red herrings out of their ass?

 

[ptbw forever]

What's always missing in the gun debate is common sense.

On one extreme side of the issue, you have gun-nuts who keep on "thinking" that virtually ANY gun legislation to curb the mass shootings is tantamount to giving up their weapons to fight off the U.S. government armed forces......Yep, insanity personified.

On the other extreme side of the issue, you now have someone like Beto demanding that citizens turn in their assault rifles (AR-15 and other war military style war rifles) or face the stigma of becoming an outlaw.

What is missing in the above debate is an understanding of even recent history.

In the mid 1930's, we DID ban the sale of machine guns and short-barreled rifles, etc. mostly based on the rationale that such weapons were NOT for the hunter and sportsman....The use of such weaponry was regarded as nefarious....and the law makers were then correct.

Ask yourself WHY we don't readily sell RPG rifles?......After all, if the mental rationale of most gun owners is to be allowed to buy military weapons to ward off the federal government assault on their liberty, an RPG rifle or machine gun would certainly be handy, don't you think???

A plane ticket for you to move out.. we are a Republic you’ll never take our guns

What has a Republic got to do with it... Germany, Ireland & France are all Republics without insane gun laws...

Could you show us what being a Republic has to do with gun laws..

All of those countries do indeed have insane gun laws.

 

[ptbw forever]

Its been proven that if we give gun control advocates an inch they take a mile. So piss off gun control advocates you lying scum.

And yet more idiocy from the right – a slippery slope fallacy, how typical.

The left has already proven that the “slippery slope” is not a fallacy when it comes to politics.

“Progressivism” is literally the slippery slope in political form.

 

[nat4900]

Why would Iran need a nuke to counter Israel's nukes? Non nuclear Iran is in no danger from Israel. The only reason Israel might attack Iran is to prevent Iran from acquiring nukes.

I'm not here to educate ignorant folks......Keep listening to FOX for your education.

I understand, that means that you have no idea why you put up such a stupid post.

Actually, THAT response amply proves my original estimation of your ignorance......
Have some more orange kool-aid

 

[Claudette]

Find a way to regulate, ban and control murderous bastards and you will have all kinds of gun control.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon. Common sense gun control.