What would it take for you to abandon your political party?

[MikeK]

I can tell you what it did take. George HW Bush. I left the Republican party in 1992 when he ran for re-election and was again nominated by the Republican Socialist Lite party. The Tea Party may bring me back, but that is still TBD.

I was a Republican going back to Goldwater and I even voted for W. Bush. But when I saw what he was about I left the Party in 2003, realizing that it no longer stood for the same things. The only reason I joined the Democratic Party is there is no Independent Party in New Jersey and I want to vote in primaries.

 

[noose4]

Yes. I think people who think they are superior to others, especially on something as baseless as union membership are elitists.

Stop pretending your superior to the "little people" and you wont have to worry about it.

Be humble and not arrogant for once in your life.

I am not the one who initially put forth the idea that union members are the elite.

Noose. Ive made it clear why i think you are an elitist. You think union membership makes you better than 88% of the workers of this nation. That is by definition an elitist mentality.

Do you think that union workers are better than nonunion workers? Yes or no.

I think we union workers receive better pay and benefits and that non union workers should not try to tear down what we have because of what multi millionaire rabble rousers say on the radio but that they should work towards increasing their own pay and benefits. I want all U.S. workers to do well, I do not want to take away the things others have fought for.

 

[Immanuel]

You think union ditch diggers are elite and you call somebody else a moron? My god where do these imbeciles come from?

That is a complete mis-characterization of what he said. He said that those who think themselves better than others are elitists and quite frankly, that is my understanding of the definition of the word. He did not say they were elite, but that they were elitists.

I have said many times that John Kerry is an elitist. That means he thinks he is better than every one else. That does not mean I think he is better than everyone else. If I did think that I would say he was elite not an elitist meaning that I thought John Kerry was actually in a class above the rest of us rather than just that he thought he was in that class.

You have unintentionally, in my opinion, switched the wording and thus the meaning of what Avatar was trying to say.

Immie

These are his words:

Unions are less than 15% of the worker. Why are you against the real workers of this nation so much that you support the elites?

How is that not calling unionized workers the elite?

I suppose you would have to read the "context" of what he has been saying all along. He took the words used previously about them being "elite", I think it was even you that made that comment, and was discussing their "elitism". In context to this thread, he was not calling them "elites" but rather elitists and by your comment, which I realize was brought about by other posts in the thread, you were claiming to be "elite"... although to me that seemed more tongue in cheek than anything else.

It is elitist to say or think that the 15% of this nation's unionized workers in this country are the only real workers in the country.

Immie

 

[Dr.Drock]

I am not the one who initially put forth the idea that union members are the elite.

Noose. Ive made it clear why i think you are an elitist. You think union membership makes you better than 88% of the workers of this nation. That is by definition an elitist mentality.

Do you think that union workers are better than nonunion workers? Yes or no.

I think we union workers receive better pay and benefits and that non union workers should not try to tear down what we have because of what multi millionaire rabble rousers say on the radio but that they should work towards increasing their own pay and benefits. I want all U.S. workers to do well, I do not want to take away the things others have fought for.

Do you want tax dollars from non-union employees used in order to help union employees?

 

[Charles_Main]

Since there is a much smaller segment of the population that gets much more than even union workers do that segment would be the elites not union workers.

It is all about context. When you are talking about the 85% of us who are not Union workers. Clearly Union Workers are the Elite among us.

This Debate is one of the Key Reasons I left the Democrat Party. Because they claim to be for the working man, but in actuality they are for the Union Working man. **** the rest of us. In fact in many cases they want the rest of us, to pay for the Union workers contracts, oh and shut up about it too.

If you were ever a Democrat you would actually know the name of the party.

So know you claim to know who I used to vote for as well?

Typical.

I assure you I was a Democrat and voted Democrat up though Clinton second Term.

As it became more and more clear to me that the Democrat party was now the party of the Far left. I moved away from them. I tried supporting the Republican Party for a short time, and now I support neither.

But go ahead and think you know all about me and what I believe if you want.

 

[noose4]

Noose. Ive made it clear why i think you are an elitist. You think union membership makes you better than 88% of the workers of this nation. That is by definition an elitist mentality.

Do you think that union workers are better than nonunion workers? Yes or no.

I think we union workers receive better pay and benefits and that non union workers should not try to tear down what we have because of what multi millionaire rabble rousers say on the radio but that they should work towards increasing their own pay and benefits. I want all U.S. workers to do well, I do not want to take away the things others have fought for.

Do you want tax dollars from non-union employees used in order to help union employees?

In what fashion? If you are speaking about the Wisconsin situation the funds that go to the Wisconsin civil service workers is payment for their labor.

 

[Immanuel]

Oh geez, I thought I heard derailing on my way back to my desk lol

But anyways to derail in my own way...........

Immie I'm pro-choice and I think we can find common ground on the issue even with you being pro-life.

My favorite, and frankly the only politician I actually like, Ron Paul is hardcore pro-life and I agree with his views. Make it a state issue, make it so states can determine whether or not they want to be pro-life or pro-choice.

I know we can find common ground... if only the politicians would let us.

Immie

 

[noose4]

It is all about context. When you are talking about the 85% of us who are not Union workers. Clearly Union Workers are the Elite among us.

This Debate is one of the Key Reasons I left the Democrat Party. Because they claim to be for the working man, but in actuality they are for the Union Working man. **** the rest of us. In fact in many cases they want the rest of us, to pay for the Union workers contracts, oh and shut up about it too.

If you were ever a Democrat you would actually know the name of the party.

So know you claim to know who I used to vote for as well?

Typical.

I assure you I was a Democrat and voted Democrat up though Clinton second Term.

As it became more and more clear to me that the Democrat party was now the party of the Far left. I moved away from them. I tried supporting the Republican Party for a short time, and now I support neither.

But go ahead and think you know all about me and what I believe if you want.

If you were a Democrat how come you dont even know the party's name?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Oh geez, I thought I heard derailing on my way back to my desk lol

But anyways to derail in my own way...........

Immie I'm pro-choice and I think we can find common ground on the issue even with you being pro-life.

My favorite, and frankly the only politician I actually like, Ron Paul is hardcore pro-life and I agree with his views. Make it a state issue, make it so states can determine whether or not they want to be pro-life or pro-choice.

I know we can find common ground... if only the politicians would let us.

Immie

The best thing for the 2 parties in power is to essentially pass the same abortion legislation, then on the campaign trail talk as if they have a different view.

But then again I'll likely say the same thing about the 2 parties regarding every issue lol. Say different things, do the same things. We as a public care a lot more about the rhetoric than we do what's actually in the legislation. We're busier in busier with how much we have to work, how much more expensive it is to have kids, how much harder it is to keep a happy marriage and family with not having as much time together that we need the quick payoff and listening to a 5 minute speech or 5 minutes of political radio trumps actually taking the huge amount of time it takes to understand a piece of legislation.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you were a Democrat how come you dont even know the party's name?

If your position is correct, why the red herring?

 

[kwc57]

In other words what are the biggest issue(s) for you, that if your party went against your view you would draw the line and say no more, I'm out.


My dad is a hardcore republican, my grandpa was, so I pretty much automatically was born into it. I voted straight ticket republican when I was 18, my biggest principle is fiscal conservatism. They showed me from 2001-2007 that that was no longer a principle of the party so I was out. I'm now a libertarian-leaning independent.

How about you?

Well, here in Oklahoma, the two parties pretty much have things locked up. We have Dem and Rep primaries. If you want to vote in a primary, you must be a member of one of those parties to vote in their specific primary. Other parties can get on the election ballot, but they don't stand a chance. I'm libertarian, but registered Republican. Honestly, I could be registered Democrat and it wouldn't matter. Neither party platform define me or speak for me. I just need to be registered as something to vote......and independent or libertarian don't cut it because it locks me out of the primaries. I look at each candidate and question and weigh them individually on their merits and vote accordingly. If the Republicans would ditch all of the social conservative platform planks, I would gladly call myself a Republican. Until then no. I use them as a means to vote. Don't get me wrong, it isn't that I disagree with some of the things social conservatives believe, I just don't think that social engineering from either side is a function of the government. Social conservatism is no better than liberal socialism. They are both socialism, just with polar agendas.

 

[DiamondDave]

How did those labor laws come about?

Irrelevant whether you believe unions were behind that to whatever extent...


The landscape has changed... and unions, with the way labor laws and business laws are today, are not needed or even necessary...

I personally have turned down jobs along the course of my career to keep away from union influence, union corruption, and union rules (and staying away from being forced to be in a union if I wanted a specific position)... instead, relying on my own choices, work ethic, skills, reputation, efforts, etc.... and very happy I did so

I have to disagree with you in regards to the highlighted part of this quote.

Take away the checks and balances of the unions and you will find that corporate greed (and the lobbyists dollar) will erode the protections that the unions won oh those many years ago.

Immie

I don't think so.... I think the highly skilled US worker has more power without being forced to join a union... we have competition, choices, abilities to move and travel and commute like never before... and labor laws out the wazoo

I personally do not need to be protected... and if I do subpar work, I EXPECT to lose my job, and rightfully so... I can negotiate my own compensation... I can choose to go somewhere else if I do not like my situation... I can file complaints. bring about lawsuits, bring about change, expose corruption and fraud... I can learn and advance and get promotion all by myself... labor laws prevent an employer from taking advantage, plus I have the backbone to quit if I am doing extra hours and don't feel I will be taken care of... the list goes on

The time of unions has passed, IMHO... though I fully expect to see them in unusual types of businesses like sports, for a long time to come

 

[Uncensored2008]

George HW Bush.

That's what it took. When that fool was nominated in 88' I switched my registration to Libertarian and haven't voted for the GOP in a presidential election since.

 

[editec]

What would it take for you to abandon your political party?

William J. Clinton

In comparison to Republican-Lite Clinton, Obama is merely a condiment on that shit sandwich the DNC has been feeding us.

 

[Oddball]

In other words what are the biggest issue(s) for you, that if your party went against your view you would draw the line and say no more, I'm out.


My dad is a hardcore republican, my grandpa was, so I pretty much automatically was born into it. I voted straight ticket republican when I was 18, my biggest principle is fiscal conservatism. They showed me from 2001-2007 that that was no longer a principle of the party so I was out. I'm now a libertarian-leaning independent.

How about you?

Well, here in Oklahoma, the two parties pretty much have things locked up. We have Dem and Rep primaries. If you want to vote in a primary, you must be a member of one of those parties to vote in their specific primary. Other parties can get on the election ballot, but they don't stand a chance.....

OK has some of the most restrictive ballot access laws in the nation.

 

[Oddball]

George HW Bush.

That's what it took. When that fool was nominated in 88' I switched my registration to Libertarian and haven't voted for the GOP in a presidential election since.

I threw Poppy overboard in '92, yet was still gullible enough to believe the phony "revolutionaries" in '94.

Nobody in the GOP, federal, state or local, has received my vote since then.

 

[Charles_Main]

If you were ever a Democrat you would actually know the name of the party.

So know you claim to know who I used to vote for as well?

Typical.

I assure you I was a Democrat and voted Democrat up though Clinton second Term.

As it became more and more clear to me that the Democrat party was now the party of the Far left. I moved away from them. I tried supporting the Republican Party for a short time, and now I support neither.

But go ahead and think you know all about me and what I believe if you want.

If you were a Democrat how come you dont even know the party's name?

What the hell are you even talking about?

Democrat party is not right in your world?

 

[Dr.Drock]

In other words what are the biggest issue(s) for you, that if your party went against your view you would draw the line and say no more, I'm out.


My dad is a hardcore republican, my grandpa was, so I pretty much automatically was born into it. I voted straight ticket republican when I was 18, my biggest principle is fiscal conservatism. They showed me from 2001-2007 that that was no longer a principle of the party so I was out. I'm now a libertarian-leaning independent.

How about you?

Well, here in Oklahoma, the two parties pretty much have things locked up. We have Dem and Rep primaries. If you want to vote in a primary, you must be a member of one of those parties to vote in their specific primary. Other parties can get on the election ballot, but they don't stand a chance.....

OK has some of the most restrictive ballot access laws in the nation.

To hell with democracy right?

With how we're pretty much syphoned in to choosing rep or dem as our only 2 choices you can only imagine what the gov'ts are like that we installed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[noose4]

If you were a Democrat how come you dont even know the party's name?

If your position is correct, why the red herring?

Why are you bringing up fish?

 

[noose4]

So know you claim to know who I used to vote for as well?

Typical.

I assure you I was a Democrat and voted Democrat up though Clinton second Term.

As it became more and more clear to me that the Democrat party was now the party of the Far left. I moved away from them. I tried supporting the Republican Party for a short time, and now I support neither.

But go ahead and think you know all about me and what I believe if you want.

If you were a Democrat how come you dont even know the party's name?

What the hell are you even talking about?

Democrat party is not right in your world?

It's not right in any world, if you were indeed a Democrat at one time you would know that the name of the party is the Democratic party, the only people who think it's name is the Democrat party are those who only get their info from right wing foaming at the mouth types who intentionally use the wrong name for the party.