What Were We Fighting For?

[protectionist]

If someone points a nuke at my head, I guess they are my enemy. No one has done that, lol.

Yes they have. You're just too ignorant to know about it.

WikiLeaks cables highlight Pakistani nuclear terror threat | World news | The Guardian

That articles says nothing about anyone US GOV has fought pointing warheads at the United States.

Is Pakistan volatile? No shit, everyone knows that, I don't need wikileaks to tell me that. Iraq had nothing to do with that, and leaving Afghanistan has nothing to do with that.

You can take your zionist war propaganda and shove off to Tel Aviv for all I care.

Are you retarded ? Read Post # 14, and shut the hell up. If you can't figure it out, .....not my problem.

It's idiots like you that are going to get us all blown up.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah. SO ?

You said these non-specific enemies of US GOV that should supposedly be my enemies are pointing nukes at my head. US GOV hasn't fought anyone with nukes so that is a bogus statement.

What ? Where do you get "non-specific" from ? I specified everything I'm talking about in Post # 14 of this thread, and in the numerous links I've supplied. What's the matter ? Can't you read ?

And it's not a matter of whether America's enemies (al Qaeda et al) HAVE nukes (Pakistan already has 100+ warheads). It's a matter of preventing them from getting them. Didn't you know ? Pheeeeeew! (high-pitched whistle)

Al CIA-da is US Gov's ally dipshit, US GOV is backing them in Syria and did in Libya as well. US Gov isn't having a nuclear war with their ally. Take your bs elsewhere.

 

[protectionist]

You said these non-specific enemies of US GOV that should supposedly be my enemies are pointing nukes at my head. US GOV hasn't fought anyone with nukes so that is a bogus statement.

What ? Where do you get "non-specific" from ? I specified everything I'm talking about in Post # 14 of this thread, and in the numerous links I've supplied. What's the matter ? Can't you read ?

And it's not a matter of whether America's enemies (al Qaeda et al) HAVE nukes (Pakistan already has 100+ warheads). It's a matter of preventing them from getting them. Didn't you know ? Pheeeeeew! (high-pitched whistle)

Al CIA-da is US Gov's ally dipshit, US GOV is backing them in Syria and did in Libya as well. US Gov isn't having a nuclear war with their ally. Take your bs elsewhere.

Oh yeah. Al Qaeda is our ally. Uh huh! Would somebody please call this poor soul a doctor ? Pheeeeeeww!

 

[Iceman]

What ? Where do you get "non-specific" from ? I specified everything I'm talking about in Post # 14 of this thread, and in the numerous links I've supplied. What's the matter ? Can't you read ?

And it's not a matter of whether America's enemies (al Qaeda et al) HAVE nukes (Pakistan already has 100+ warheads). It's a matter of preventing them from getting them. Didn't you know ? Pheeeeeew! (high-pitched whistle)

Al CIA-da is US Gov's ally dipshit, US GOV is backing them in Syria and did in Libya as well. US Gov isn't having a nuclear war with their ally. Take your bs elsewhere.

Oh yeah. Al Qaeda is our ally. Uh huh! Would somebody please call this poor soul a doctor ? Pheeeeeeww!

Our Ally? I am not US Gov, speak for yourself. If you think you are part of US Gov, you are even more retarded than you previously led on, they don't give a shit about you and don't represent your interests. It's obvious the US Gov is supplying and running Al Qaeda at this point. It is out in the open and you have to be an idiot not to see it. Shit, even Ted Cruz says it, mainstream publications like the NY Times admit it, US GOV is supporting Al Qaeda in Syria.

 

[tinydancer]

Freedom is a dream. Not an illusion. No one has died in vain. Not one man or woman.

 

[protectionist]

Al CIA-da is US Gov's ally dipshit, US GOV is backing them in Syria and did in Libya as well. US Gov isn't having a nuclear war with their ally. Take your bs elsewhere.

Oh yeah. Al Qaeda is our ally. Uh huh! Would somebody please call this poor soul a doctor ? Pheeeeeeww!

Our Ally? I am not US Gov, speak for yourself. If you think you are part of US Gov, you are even more retarded than you previously led on, they don't give a shit about you and don't represent your interests. It's obvious the US Gov is supplying and running Al Qaeda at this point. It is out in the open and you have to be an idiot not to see it. Shit, even Ted Cruz say it, mainstream publications like the NY Times admit it, US GOV is supporting Al Qaeda in Syria.

If I didn't think it was pure STUPIDITY, I 'd think you were nuts. Like I said...Not My Problem!

PS- for your edification, the US OF COURSE, is NOT supporting al Qaeda anywhere, you dolt! Just because they happen to be opposed to the Hezbollah-friendly Assad regime, and support the rebels fighting against Assad, and some al Qaeda elements also happened to have joined in the fight against Assad, doesn't mean the US is supporting al Qaeda. Somebody get this guy a doctor. I mean really.

And it's not a matter of whether the US govt gives a shit about me or not. It's a matter of self-defense against all the Islamic gooneybird lunatics in the world, who are avidly trying to blow us all to pieces, while you sit there tweaking your kazoo.

 

[tinydancer]

Why is this even an issue? Let us honor those who have sacrificed their lives. Embrace their families left behind. Let us move past the horrid decade. Try to heal wounds and move forward.

Look I remember the morning of September 11 and actually I was just logging on for a weather report on CNN when I watched the towers go down. I ran to my living room. And I watched it. I screamed. It was freaking unreal.

And I screamed and screamed and screamed.

But at some point we have to move on.. Pick up the pieces if we can.

 

[KNB]

Compare the bodycounts in The War Against Terrorism.

How many US and "coalition" forces have been killed by Islamic extremists vs. how many Muslims, Arabs, Africans, and brown people in general have been killed by the US. Which count is higher?

The US has the destructive capability to allow a 19-yo in Arizona to fly his X-Box remote-controlled death plane across the entire world and kill anyone the President or CIA chooses on a whim, without charges or evidence against the victims. They have done this with impunity in at least half a dozen countries across two continents for ten years. And ISLAM is the real terrorist threat?

WHAT IS VICTORY IN THIS WAR? The complete extermination of Islam? Is the ultimate goal to kill enough Arabs until the only ones left bow down and accept Wal-Mart and Duck Dynasty? Honestly, can anyone from the pro-endless war group tell us please what victory is in this war? Your war on drugs has been going steady for forty years and I'm getting high as I write this. Have you won the drug war yet? How much longer do you want to keep failing?

 

[CrazedScotsman]

Do you really think the war in Iraq was over oil or because "Saddam tried to have daddy Bush killed"?

First,
The reason for the war in Iraq is because it was easier to fight terrorism there than in Afghanistan since Afghanistan is land locked. Iran and Pakistan would never allow the United States to fly 1000's of combat missions per week through their airspace. Yes, we did fly in and out of Afghanistan but it was nothing like it would have been if it was only Afghanistan. So, Bush jr. got the support needed from everyone including Democrats to invade Iraq.

Second,
Remember what happened after the United State left Afghanistan high and dry in the 80's? If you don't remember, the United States helped Afghanistan defeat the USSR by supplying Stinger Missles and advisors. Once the USSR was defeat and Afghanistan was in ruins, the United States said, "Great job all, see ya around and best of luck to you". That's right, the United States left Afghanistan high and dry to fend for itself. This is when the Taliban or whomever was in power over there took control and became a safe haven for terrorist like Bin Laden. Now, the United States is making the same exact mistake again in Iraq.

Third,
I hate saying this but this mess, the whole thing is our fault. The people of the United States put these clowns in office and then fight over who's at fault. So, we are to blame.

 

[Iceman]

Oh yeah. Al Qaeda is our ally. Uh huh! Would somebody please call this poor soul a doctor ? Pheeeeeeww!

Our Ally? I am not US Gov, speak for yourself. If you think you are part of US Gov, you are even more retarded than you previously led on, they don't give a shit about you and don't represent your interests. It's obvious the US Gov is supplying and running Al Qaeda at this point. It is out in the open and you have to be an idiot not to see it. Shit, even Ted Cruz say it, mainstream publications like the NY Times admit it, US GOV is supporting Al Qaeda in Syria.

If I didn't think it was pure STUPIDITY, I 'd think you were nuts. Like I said...Not My Problem!

PS- for your edification, the US OF COURSE, is NOT supporting al Qaeda anywhere, you dolt! Just because they happen to be opposed to the Hezbollah-friendly Assad regime, and support the rebels fighting against Assad, and some al Qaeda elements also happened to have joined in the fight against Assad, doesn't mean the US is supporting al Qaeda. Somebody get this guy a doctor. I mean really.

And it's not a matter of whether the US govt gives a shit about me or not. It's a matter of self-defense against all the Islamic gooneybird lunatics in the world, who are avidly trying to blow us all to pieces, while you sit there tweaking your kazoo.

Take your uninformed neo-con hackery elsewhere. The average American is stupid, but not THAT stupid. You guys have been thoroughly discredited, no one is going to go for another war at this point. The jig is up, Americans don't want to die for rich oil and financial corporations and jewish policy wonks in Washington, especially after they realize the supposed enemy they were fighting for all these years, Al Qaeda, is being backed by the US Government.

People don't buy that post 911 propaganda anymore, you seem to be one of the last holdouts. I could really care less. You are a brainwashed lemming of no consequences. Honestly, you ought to do everyone a favor, join up, and fight the taliban yourself if you are so keen on it.

 

[KNB]

First,
The reason for the war in Iraq is because it was easier to fight terrorism there than in Afghanistan since Afghanistan is land locked.

If it was so much easier to fight terrorism in Iraq than in Afghanistan then why did so many more American soldiers die in Iraq?

Second, what you are suggesting is that the US should have invaded Afghanistan in the 1980s in order to help the Afghan people fight off the terrorist groups that the CIA supplied with guerrilla training, Stinger missiles and advisors, and that the US should have stayed in Iraq where even more thousands of our soldiers could die needlessly because we weren't supposed to be there in the first place.

 

[JoeB131]

Let's get realistic here.

The problem in Iraq is that Iraq was always a polite fiction. A bunch of ethnic groups thrown together for adminstrative purposes by the British empire, only held together by a series of ruthless dictators, not any national identity...

So we are supposed to be surprised that the minute we pull out, it starts breaking up? Really?

Let Al Qaeda and Iran fight it out.

 

[Old Rocks]

I couldn't help but remember back in 2004 during the thick of the Iraq War, how our men and women fought hard and paid for every inch of ground they took with their life's blood. Today, 10 years later, in Ramadi and Fallujah, places where the fighting was the fiercest and where the most of our troops died, the terrorist group Al Qaeda, that Obama claimed had been "decimated" and put "on the run" has retaken those places with little resistance. Their flags now fly over those cities once again. In Robert Gates' new book Duty, he recalls how Obama's decisions regarding the war were purely political. He recalls a particular disdain for the military in general which exuded from the President. This all leads me to ask, what were we fighting for? Was Obama pulling out of Iraq purely indeed motivated by politics? Did he care that one day that such a pullout would create a power vacuum there? Did he realize he was relinquishing all that our troops fought for back to the enemy?

What were we fighting for? What on Earth were we doing there, if not to win? It's saddening to know that our president thinks so little of our men and women, to end a war prematurely and give up everything they fought hard and died for, simply to put himself in a better political position to trounce his rivals. Why did he have military advisers if he was simply going to ignore them as he did Mr. Gates? I fail to understand how a man can have simply no commitment to the efforts his men and women in uniform are putting in overseas. I'm a Libertarian, and I don't take too kindly to foreign intervention in the first place. But I was also taught as a boy, "If you start a fight son, you finish it."

What were we fighting for? Nothing it seems, nothing but the political gains of one man. My Father fought in the first Iraq war, and I can tell you the he is none too happy to see what he fought for, risked life and limb for--- gone; taken back by the enemy. What were we really fighting for? You tell me.

Operation Iraqi Liberation.

 

[BlindBoo]

Do you really think the war in Iraq was over oil or because "Saddam tried to have daddy Bush killed"?

First,
The reason for the war in Iraq is because it was easier to fight terrorism there than in Afghanistan since Afghanistan is land locked. Iran and Pakistan would never allow the United States to fly 1000's of combat missions per week through their airspace. Yes, we did fly in and out of Afghanistan but it was nothing like it would have been if it was only Afghanistan. So, Bush jr. got the support needed from everyone including Democrats to invade Iraq.

Second,
Remember what happened after the United State left Afghanistan high and dry in the 80's? If you don't remember, the United States helped Afghanistan defeat the USSR by supplying Stinger Missles and advisors. Once the USSR was defeat and Afghanistan was in ruins, the United States said, "Great job all, see ya around and best of luck to you". That's right, the United States left Afghanistan high and dry to fend for itself. This is when the Taliban or whomever was in power over there took control and became a safe haven for terrorist like Bin Laden. Now, the United States is making the same exact mistake again in Iraq.

Third,
I hate saying this but this mess, the whole thing is our fault. The people of the United States put these clowns in office and then fight over who's at fault. So, we are to blame.

Well it ain't bananas.

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa159.pdf

"Ancient History": U.S. Conduct in the Middle East Since World War II and the Folly of Intervention | Cato Institute

 

[ShawnChris13]

Oh yeah. Al Qaeda is our ally. Uh huh! Would somebody please call this poor soul a doctor ? Pheeeeeeww!

Our Ally? I am not US Gov, speak for yourself. If you think you are part of US Gov, you are even more retarded than you previously led on, they don't give a shit about you and don't represent your interests. It's obvious the US Gov is supplying and running Al Qaeda at this point. It is out in the open and you have to be an idiot not to see it. Shit, even Ted Cruz say it, mainstream publications like the NY Times admit it, US GOV is supporting Al Qaeda in Syria.

If I didn't think it was pure STUPIDITY, I 'd think you were nuts. Like I said...Not My Problem!

PS- for your edification, the US OF COURSE, is NOT supporting al Qaeda anywhere, you dolt! Just because they happen to be opposed to the Hezbollah-friendly Assad regime, and support the rebels fighting against Assad, and some al Qaeda elements also happened to have joined in the fight against Assad, doesn't mean the US is supporting al Qaeda. Somebody get this guy a doctor. I mean really.

And it's not a matter of whether the US govt gives a shit about me or not. It's a matter of self-defense against all the Islamic gooneybird lunatics in the world, who are avidly trying to blow us all to pieces, while you sit there tweaking your kazoo.

Just because these guys are in the same group that blew up the World Trade Center, and killed thousands of Americans, and subsequently fought us anywhere they could for ten years doesn't mean we're supporting al Qaeda!

 

[protectionist]

Why is this even an issue? Let us honor those who have sacrificed their lives. Embrace their families left behind. Let us move past the horrid decade. Try to heal wounds and move forward.

Look I remember the morning of September 11 and actually I was just logging on for a weather report on CNN when I watched the towers go down. I ran to my living room. And I watched it. I screamed. It was freaking unreal.

And I screamed and screamed and screamed.

But at some point we have to move on.. Pick up the pieces if we can.

What do you mean by "move on" ? (when there are over 100 nuclear warheads in Pakistan, held by a govt that is not particularly friendly to us, and millions of Islamist radicals who can't wait to annihilate us) And an equal number of them in Iraq, who might do the same with Iraq's oil money.

 

[protectionist]

Compare the bodycounts in The War Against Terrorism.

How many US and "coalition" forces have been killed by Islamic extremists vs. how many Muslims, Arabs, Africans, and brown people in general have been killed by the US. Which count is higher?

The US has the destructive capability to allow a 19-yo in Arizona to fly his X-Box remote-controlled death plane across the entire world and kill anyone the President or CIA chooses on a whim, without charges or evidence against the victims. They have done this with impunity in at least half a dozen countries across two continents for ten years. And ISLAM is the real terrorist threat?

WHAT IS VICTORY IN THIS WAR? The complete extermination of Islam? Is the ultimate goal to kill enough Arabs until the only ones left bow down and accept Wal-Mart and Duck Dynasty? Honestly, can anyone from the pro-endless war group tell us please what victory is in this war? Your war on drugs has been going steady for forty years and I'm getting high as I write this. Have you won the drug war yet? How much longer do you want to keep failing?

I've already told you (in Post # 14, on page 1 of this thread) what "victory" is in this war. ANd every day that you are alive to type this post, we have achieved victory. That's what "victory" is. Us still being alive. And by the way most people in this thread talk, it's a wonder we are.

As for charges of evidence against the "victims", for your edification, this is a WAR, not a court trial. When you are on the battlefield, and 300 enemy soldiers are shooting at you, would you say > "Stop! You're all under arrest." And then read them their rights ? Pheeeeww!

As for the half a dozen countries, if that's all there has been, it's definitely not enough. US troops probably need to be in dozens of countries, and will probably be needed there for a very long time to come. Maybe centuries. (consider how long Islam has been waging its war against non-Muslims > 1400 years)

 

[KNB]

Victory is being alive? Victory against Iraq which did not attack the US? How do you justify the Iraq invasion? Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on civilians? So did Bush. And let's remind everyone that Iraq was not involved with 9/11. So to avenge 9/11, Bush did to the Iraqi people exactly what Saddam Hussein did to them, even though they weren't involved with 9/11.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | US used white phosphorus in Iraq
Pentagon Used White Phosphorous in Iraq

No, there isn't any victory in a war where we have become the greater terrorist threat. 3,000 people getting killed in the World Trade Center does not justify killing 150,000 Iraqis who were not involved with 9/11. It certainly doesn't justify torture, drone strikes on civilians, use of chemical weapons, and lying to the United Nations. No, there is no victory in this war. The CIA trained the Afghan terrorist groups SPECIFICALLY to be able to wear down the more advanced Russian military over a prolonged period of time. America designed the Afghan war to never end. There is no victory to be had.

 

[protectionist]

Our Ally? I am not US Gov, speak for yourself. If you think you are part of US Gov, you are even more retarded than you previously led on, they don't give a shit about you and don't represent your interests. It's obvious the US Gov is supplying and running Al Qaeda at this point. It is out in the open and you have to be an idiot not to see it. Shit, even Ted Cruz say it, mainstream publications like the NY Times admit it, US GOV is supporting Al Qaeda in Syria.

If I didn't think it was pure STUPIDITY, I 'd think you were nuts. Like I said...Not My Problem!

PS- for your edification, the US OF COURSE, is NOT supporting al Qaeda anywhere, you dolt! Just because they happen to be opposed to the Hezbollah-friendly Assad regime, and support the rebels fighting against Assad, and some al Qaeda elements also happened to have joined in the fight against Assad, doesn't mean the US is supporting al Qaeda. Somebody get this guy a doctor. I mean really.

And it's not a matter of whether the US govt gives a shit about me or not. It's a matter of self-defense against all the Islamic gooneybird lunatics in the world, who are avidly trying to blow us all to pieces, while you sit there tweaking your kazoo.

Take your uninformed neo-con hackery elsewhere. The average American is stupid, but not THAT stupid. You guys have been thoroughly discredited, no one is going to go for another war at this point. The jig is up, Americans don't want to die for rich oil and financial corporations and jewish policy wonks in Washington, especially after they realize the supposed enemy they were fighting for all these years, Al Qaeda, is being backed by the US Government.

People don't buy that post 911 propaganda anymore, you seem to be one of the last holdouts. I could really care less. You are a brainwashed lemming of no consequences. Honestly, you ought to do everyone a favor, join up, and fight the taliban yourself if you are so keen on it.

HA HA HA. Oh, here we go. The very OLD " rich oil and financial corporations" line, yet again. Oh yeah. it's always those big, bad corprorations who are to blame, right ?

Dude. My left wing policies on raising taxes on the rich, on ultra-rich corporations, and raising the minimum wage, might leave you looking like Rush Limbaugh, OK ? Hey. when it's the corporations, I'll be the first one to say so, not you, because I've been criticizing them ever since Vietnam War days. But that's not the case here. It sounds like you stil didn't read Post # 14, or if you did, you shoved down your denial shaft. So, that being the case, I guess I'll have to state the case all over again.

1. In Afghanistan, it is essential for US troops to be in close proximity to Pakistan and it's arsenal of 100+ nuclear warheads. Pakistan is a country loaded with Islamic jihadists who have repeatedly attacked storage centers of these weapons. The situation is so bad that Pakistan now moves these warheads around in ordinary cargo vans (like UPS), through ordinary streets, making them dangerously susceptible to attack. On top of that, the Pakistani govt. is quite fragile, and if toppled by the Muslim loonies, the nukes would quickly be in the hands of the same people who attacked us on 9/11 and Fort Hood, USS Cole, World Trade Ctr (1993), Times Square bomber, Shoe bomber, Underwear bomber, Christmas tree bomber, Boston bombers, LAX shooter, Beltway sniper, etc. etc.
With the troops in Afghanistan, they can be close enough to the Paki nukes to quickly get to them and secure them from the jihadists.
Note: If I had my way, the troops would enter Pakistan now and secure those nukes, and bring them back to the US, or to another safe location far away from al Qaeda's central operations.

2. In Iraq, for years, we heard an endless chorus of "It's about OIL!" Well, maybe it's more about oil than any of those people ever thought.

If Al Qaeda were to topple the Malaki govt (with the help of Sunni militants), then a much worse situation presents itself than the al Qaeda in Afghanistan and training camp issue. With Iraq, not only would al Qaeda have everything they were denied in Afghanistan (at the cost of thousands of US troops' lives), but they would also have in their pockets the world's largest unproven oil reserves, and fortunes$$$$ to go with it, putting them in position to acquire nuclear weapons, and making them far more capable to attack the US, Israel, and any non-Muslim country., and doing it with authority.

And you say I seem to be one of the last holdouts ? Pheeeew! EARTH TO ICEMAN: THERE ARE NO "holdouts". Nothing has changed since 9/11. Muslims loonies continue to attack us, they still possess nuclear weapons, and millions of intelligence officials all over the world are on guard against them, and wary of their gains in Pakistan, Iraq, and Iran, whic are probably the 3 most dangerous countries. (as I showed in my links-did you read them ?)

Sounds like you've been watching a little too much MSNBC (the most one-sided, biased, and often fraudulent TV station in America)

 

[protectionist]

Let's get realistic here.

The problem in Iraq is that Iraq was always a polite fiction. A bunch of ethnic groups thrown together for adminstrative purposes by the British empire, only held together by a series of ruthless dictators, not any national identity...

So we are supposed to be surprised that the minute we pull out, it starts breaking up? Really?

Let Al Qaeda and Iran fight it out.

And if and whenever al Qaeda wins, and gets control over Iraq's huge oil reserves$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ? Then what ? You build a nuclear fallout shelter, and live underground for the rest of your life ? (if there IS any rest of your life)